This is why I prefer regular brows over fibermesh brows
Richard John S
Posts: 391
I prefer regular brows over fibermesh brows because fibermesh brows look like fluff taped to the face... I just bought a really beautiful character, but unfortunately her regular eyebrows are far too different than the nice shape the fibermesh brows have. Sadly though, as already mentioned, the fibermesh brows look totally unnatural and look like fluff taped to the face, kinda like a costime or something. It's really disappointing that the regular eyebrows weren't the same shape as the fibermesh brows because this could have been the best character I've ever bought...
As a comparison using a person with fake eyebrows, this is exactly what I mean. They look unnatural and out of place.
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Comments
Sadly I'd have to agree with that. The concept is great but let down by the apparent inability to get the brow polys thin/tapered enough to look real-life. If you look at Exnem's Body Hair for G3F you can see the type of fine hair needed for brows. Someone will come along and do just that to fill the void for realistic eyebrows as the current ones aren't up to it.
I....I don't understand. Eyebrows on people have depth. Eyebrow hairs have thickness. Not every person shaves their eyebrows off and then paints them on....
I.....I......mean.....
what world do you live in? Where people(read women) have no eyebrow hairs?
What world do you live in where eyebrows have to suddenly look like fluff taped onto the face and suddenly it's natural because it has hair and depth but again that looks like fluff taped onto the face? There's a difference between eyebrows that look natural and nice as compared to unnatural fluff (fibermesh brows) that looks taped onto the face... big difference! Sorry, but when it comes to DAZ, the painted on brows (regular brows) look a lot better than the current state of fibermesh brows!
I.....I......mean.....
Did you even bother to look at the two images I shared?
I did look at the images you shared. And the top one looks perfectly natural. The bottom one looks like it has been enhanced with make up. Costume make up. Or bleached badly.
But I have never seen any figure, created by daz or a PA that has fibermesh eyebrows and looks like the second image. Sorry.
I think it does depend on the brows, and on lighting. I have seen quite a few that look too solid in my test scene, though I think that's down to the density of the hairs rather than the thickness of individual hairs. There are, however, other sets that do look good - and a lot that obviously can look good in better lighting.
I'm sorry, but those brows in the first image do not look natural or real. They look like fake hair glued onto the head. Now lets look at a picture of a real person who is not wearing fake eyebrows as compared to the person shown in the second image (fake brows) and the render shown in the first image (fibermesh brows). As you can see, there is a difference when comparing the fibermesh brows in the first image and the fake eyebrows in the second image with the real eyebrows of the person in the image below. They look real, natural, and not like they are fluff taped onto the face. This is actually what you call real and natural eyebrows! So far, regular eyebrows (even though they are not 100% accurate) and not fibermesh brows bring the best results to comparing to the image below when rendering in DAZ.
I don't see the problem here.
I've literally never had them look like fluff to the face, just perfectly fitting on every model I've used so far, even been mixing them across Geneses and gender. Thing with eyebrows is, which is actually proven by that real life bad picture of whatsername who's natural eyebrows are already off irl, is you need to match the color to the actual hair to blend into the face (preferably the same shader), which is a design step people tend to forget. And adapt the shape and thickness, which differs for each face, look at the make up, etc. Also; the picture above of Evangeline aren't 'real' eyebrows; she heavily trimmed them, put major gloss under them, not to mention her whole face is layered with pancake (make up) that softens the face for bright cameraflashes.
She may have trimmed them and put gloss on them, but they are still real eyebrows, and you can tell they are real eyebrows... It's not like they are fake eyebrows that look glued or taped to her head as compared to what's shown in my two images above and many other images I have tried rendering with fibermesh brows. I'm sorry, but fibermesh brows need a lot of improvement in their current state to compare to even to the regular brows. Even if light is a factor, regular brows work in all light conditions and still look more natural than fibermesh brows.
I tend to layer fiber mesh over painted on. I don’t like either alone. I do think real eyebrows are less uniform than the fiber mesh ones used on a lot of characters. Plus I tend to prefe natural to plucked.
I think better browse will come out now that SBH is available & one can tape the shaft easily.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing what people do with SBH brows.
I've had fibermesh brows getting seriously distorted with certain body morphs, especially the growing up morphs. Making brows with Garibaldi (or SBH, shouldn't be any different) takes a couple of minutes and look much better IMHO.
Eyebrow hair varies like hair on the head. Some are whispy fine and some are thicker in diameter. You can't just pile everyone into one group. As a person in the beauty business I've plucked and shaped my fair share of them. My older clients are now to a point where I'm actually brush and pencilling in eyebrows... that's another issue, you get older your eyebrows can change dramatically. On most folks they take on a life of their own and no longer follow a nice neat path but instead are all over the place in their directions (wax pencils help to control this to a degree) and many other are just loosing them to the point where they have to brush and pencil in areas that are too sparce!
Fiberhair tech is in it's infancy really. I'm sure there will be improvements in the future. I personally like fiber eyebrows allot. Of course I'm good in ZBrush so I can easily take a set into the program and using the Deformation panel I can thin out the hairs pretty easily and save that out as a morph!
Hmm.. Maybe I am being biased here ;) but i don't think my sets are poofy or unnatural at all.
https://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-brows-for-genesis-8-females
Then fix it
Skin builder has many painted on brow options you can add. There are also brow removal products in the store as well as morphing fibermesh options to try and match what a vendor painted on. If you don't like something, change it instead of punishing others because something doesn't fit your needs.
One of the reasons I love Mousso products is she includes both options and usually at different degrees.
They look very nice indeed
They are very well done, thank you very much!
Picked up your male set, not had an opportunity to load and use them as I've been pretty busy with getting Gino finished up but the promo's speak volumes, they are gorgeous!
I'm pretty sure those brows, though very nice, are not entirely as Mother Nature intended (ditto the teeth and the eyelashes).
Neither is her skin, in real life she has beautiful aged, detailed skin with many grooves and creases. This photo is make-upped and photoshopped to death, would never use it for reference.
Your brows look good to me.
Those do indeed look like better results than what I have been getting with the fibermesh brows that come with the characters I've bought, but how do they look in different lighting settings and camera angles?
Here is another example of why I prefer regular brows. As you can see, the fibermesh brow looks like it's losing some glue and is eventually going to fall off of the face.
Now lets compare that to the nice regular brows which look like they are properly attached to the face and don't look like they are taped on.
The reference is for the eyebrows, and it has nothing to do with her skin or makeup. It doesn't matter if her brows are trimmed or the work that has been done on them. The point is that they are still real eyebrows, and they don't look like fluff attached to her face as shown in my post before this which shows a second example of why fibermesh brows need a lot of improvment to even compare to the regular brows.
@nonesuch00:
What is SBH?
It's true that fibermesh bodyhair often seems to float slightly above the skin. I always use some morphs to fix that issue, if no morphs are included for the product, I use hidden bodymorphs like body volume or whatever is available.
Richard, IMO, they both look terrible.
The first one will probably look ok from the front at moderately close range, the second will probably look ok at medium to long range.
This is a long way from real; sure it's a real person, with 'real' adjustments made to them, and quite possibly the image, but real? Not in my book.
Those eyebrows need re-positioning in the first image, and quite possibly the opacity adjusting.
The second image looks good from a distance, and when not from angles that will show there is no depth, otherwise their painted on look is obvious.
Personally I use both, to get the look I'm after; I never start out presuming a particular method wont work.
I also combine both fibremesh and painted on.
Thanks everyone for all the kind words :)
"Those do indeed look like better results than what I have been getting with the fibermesh brows that come with the characters I've bought, but how do they look in different lighting settings and camera angles?
Here is another example of why I prefer regular brows. As you can see, the fibermesh brow looks like it's losing some glue and is eventually going to fall off of the face."
I think that was an easy miss by the vendor. There is a ton of work that goes into character making and they may not have rotated the figure around to make sure it fit at all those interesting angles. The brows they made or resource they chose may also not have been the best example of what fibermesh can offer. They will still add lovely depth at certain angles though.
I will see if I can throw some renders together to show off some odd angles/lighting of my brows.