Strand-Based Hair Mini-Tutorial

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Comments

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Thanks Diva!

    Your mini tutorial gave me the push to give the fiber hair a try. :)  Here's a quick render after messing with it for 5 minutes on my new Suzume character ( I only let it render to 40%).  BTW...How do you add hair textures?  Will regular Iray hair shaders work?  The color on this render is just whatever the hair generator was already set to.

    Also, once you've created a fiber hair, how do you save it as a hair prop?

    For now, I'm saving as Scene Subset, as that seems to be the least glitchy way to save at the moment. I've tried saving as a Support Asset but was having trouble with that and that seems to be a bit glitchy for right now. I think the safest way is probably saved as a Scene or a Scene Subset for now.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2019
    rynmtylr said:

    It's probably too much to hope for, but can this do African hair? I've fiddled with all the settings I could think to, and the closest I could get is this. The clumping, scraggle and frizz settings seem to create sharp angles rather than curls, so even more loosely curled hair may be out of reach, at least as it currently works.

    I THINK that getting some styles might be achievable - one would probably need to lower the Seg Length by quite a bit. Here are some experiments I did:

          

     

    I decreased the segment length by a lot and fiddled with the Clump and Tweak settings quite a bit. I know most of them need work, but I think it has some potential to do some styles ok.

     

    G8F - Strand-Based Hair - Black Style G.png
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    G8F - Strand-Based Hair - Black Style F.png
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    G8F - Strand-Based Hair - Black Style E.png
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    G8F - Strand-Based Hair - Black Style D.png
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    Strand-Based Hair - Short Black Hair 1.png
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    G8F - Strand-Based Hair - Black Style C.png
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    G8F - Strand-Based Hair - Black Style H.png
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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    Wow, those look pretty great. I guess I’ll have to dig into it again tonight. 

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,403

    Thank you this is a very useful.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250
    rynmtylr said:

    It's probably too much to hope for, but can this do African hair? I've fiddled with all the settings I could think to, and the closest I could get is this. The clumping, scraggle and frizz settings seem to create sharp angles rather than curls, so even more loosely curled hair may be out of reach, at least as it currently works.

    I THINK that getting some styles might be achievable - one would probably need to lower the Seg Length by quite a bit. Here are some experiments I did:

          

     

    I decreased the segment length by a lot and fiddled with the Clump and Tweak settings quite a bit. I know most of them need work, but I think it has some potential to do some styles ok.

     

    Diva, I think you might be a SBH savant.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    OK, I think I'm starting to get it.

    Afro3.png
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  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    Shading is one of my biggest blind spots. How do I make this look more like hair rather than a bunch of lines?

     

    Lemmy.png
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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    rynmtylr said:

    It's probably too much to hope for, but can this do African hair? I've fiddled with all the settings I could think to, and the closest I could get is this. The clumping, scraggle and frizz settings seem to create sharp angles rather than curls, so even more loosely curled hair may be out of reach, at least as it currently works.

    I THINK that getting some styles might be achievable - one would probably need to lower the Seg Length by quite a bit. Here are some experiments I did:

          

     

    I decreased the segment length by a lot and fiddled with the Clump and Tweak settings quite a bit. I know most of them need work, but I think it has some potential to do some styles ok.

     

    Diva, I think you might be a SBH savant.

    LOL Thank you! Though that's far from true - I'm just trying to experiment and learn as much as I can. :) Thank you for the compliment though! 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2019
    rynmtylr said:

    Shading is one of my biggest blind spots. How do I make this look more like hair rather than a bunch of lines?

     

    The painting, shaping and overall design - looks like you've got that down well! Since you asked, I'll give some critique (I hope you're not offended, and hopefully I'm not overstepping).

    1) Try a thinner Base and thicker Tip with Density perhaps increased as well (in the Distribute tab).

    2) Hair tends to not lay completely flat against the skin - try fluffing it up. The "Curl Curves" (looks a bit like a fish hook) and "Surface Attract Curves" (looks a bit like an arch) tools in the Style tab can help fluff up the roots. You can also try the Comb, at a lower radius setting, and fluff up the root area along the hairline with that.

    3) Try adding some randomness via the Clump and Tweak tabs. I'd add some light clumping and then in the Tweak tab I'd add some Random Length, a tiny bit of Random Root Angle (a little Roll and Yaw goes a long way), and a little bit of Scraggle.  

    The shading, to me, looks ok. But if you still wanted to do some tweaks to the shading, maybe a lighter Root Transmission Color and Hair Root Color could help blend it into the scalp a bit more if that's the direction you wanted to go with the shading. :)

    Anyway, I hope you're not offended by the critique. :) I think you really got the base shaping and painting down - the beard and moustache design is very cool! 

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    No worries about offending me, I want all the feedback I can get. 

    Just so I'm clear, did you write point 1 correctly? Are you suggesting that the hair thickness be more uniform, or less?

    Here's a second attempt. I'd already been experimenting with some of the things you suggested, but will play with point 3 more. As far as the design, I modeled it after Lemmy, specifically this photo:

    Thanks again for all the advice.

    Lemmy2.png
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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    rynmtylr said:

    No worries about offending me, I want all the feedback I can get. 

    Just so I'm clear, did you write point 1 correctly? Are you suggesting that the hair thickness be more uniform, or less?

    Here's a second attempt. I'd already been experimenting with some of the things you suggested, but will play with point 3 more. As far as the design, I modeled it after Lemmy, specifically this photo:

    Thanks again for all the advice.

    I meant less uniform on the hair strand thickness (sorry I wasn't very clear, I need coffee lol). See how whispy and thin the base of the hair looks at his hairline in the image you posted? The base looks thin and whispy to me, so you might try a much thinner base and make the tips thicker. :)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 6,789

    Great thread Diva , thank you. good job on the tutorial too smiley

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    Ivy said:

    Great thread Diva , thank you. good job on the tutorial too smiley

    My pleasure! I still have a lot to learn, but I'm happy to share what I've learned so far. I remember when I first started learning how to make 3D content and I was struggling to learn how to work with Iray settings and shaders and struggling to learn about morphs and everything, the community really helped me out in every step of the way and helped me learn all that I now know, so it's only fair I try and pay it forward. :)

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited June 2019

    Took another shot at African hair, modeled after my wife.

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    Post edited by Gordig on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250
    rynmtylr said:

    Took another shot at African hair, modeled after my wife.

    Fantastic render and hairstyle!

    Hey, has anyone found a way to get small hairs (like eyebrow hairs) to curve and not stand straight out like bristle?

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    Have you played around with the curl and surface attract? You can use those to set the general direction of the hairs before combing them the rest of the way. Could you post a picture of what you're getting?

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250

    Sure!

    I'm trying to make some chin hairs, but they all are too straight to look organic. I've reduced the segment length to practically zero, but that doesn't seem to do anything.

    In general, all the stand hairs (even the long ones) tend to have these straight edges that make them look inorganic. :-\

     

     

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  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited June 2019

    Is this more like what you're looking for?

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    Post edited by Gordig on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250

    Yes, exactly!

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited June 2019

    You said that you moved the segment length down to practically zero, but WHICH segment length? If you click on the style curves options button (next to the scissors icon), there is a second segment length option, and turning that down seems to be the key to making finer curves like that.

    Post edited by Gordig on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250
    edited June 2019
    rynmtylr said:

    You said that you moved the segment length down to practically zero, but WHICH segment length? If you click on the style curves options button (next to the scissors icon), there is a second segment length option, and that seems to be the key to making finer curves like that.

    Holy crap. I never noticed that before. Thanks!!!

    EDIT: Just tested and works like a charm. laugh

    Post edited by Leonides02 on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250
    edited June 2019

    Hmmmmm.... So after I make a SBH design... if I parent the hair to the figure, then move the figure... The hair doesn't move with the figure. Instead, it moves in a totally different way (i.e. more left or more right).

    Anyone else notice this or know how to compensate?

    Post edited by Leonides02 on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited June 2019

    I've had kind of the opposite problem: I posed a figure with SBH hair in such a way that her hand went through the hair, and some of it attached itself to her hand. I haven't really tried to fix it yet because it's so amusing.

    Hairy palm.png
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    Post edited by Gordig on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250

    Funny!

    But yeah, I can't seem to move my character around after applying the SBH without the hair moving not attached to the character, but just sort of floating.

    This wouldn't be too bad if I can save it as a preset to apply to the character no matter what pose I choose. Can we do that?

     

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Hmmmmm.... So after I make a SBH design... if I parent the hair to the figure, then move the figure... The hair doesn't move with the figure. Instead, it moves in a totally different way (i.e. more left or more right).

    Anyone else notice this or know how to compensate?

    I THINK that the SBH only works on the figure generation you've made it for (like if you made it on G8F it, I think, only works on G8F characters). If you've transferred it to another character (of that same generation) and it's like "floating off" in the distance you might try:

    1) Zero the figure (pose and shape)

    2) Unparent the hair then go in the hair's parameters and set all if it's translations and rotations to zero - that SHOULD bring the hair back to the zero position and see if that works and see if the hair now is in the right place and moves with the figure.

     

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250

    Hmmmmm.... So after I make a SBH design... if I parent the hair to the figure, then move the figure... The hair doesn't move with the figure. Instead, it moves in a totally different way (i.e. more left or more right).

    Anyone else notice this or know how to compensate?

    I THINK that the SBH only works on the figure generation you've made it for (like if you made it on G8F it, I think, only works on G8F characters). If you've transferred it to another character (of that same generation) and it's like "floating off" in the distance you might try:

    1) Zero the figure (pose and shape)

    2) Unparent the hair then go in the hair's parameters and set all if it's translations and rotations to zero - that SHOULD bring the hair back to the zero position and see if that works and see if the hair now is in the right place and moves with the figure.

     

    Thanks Diva. Let me try some things. This was actually on the same figure I made the hair on in the first place, just "merged" into a new scene. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 5,288

    Just out of interest and because I can't try this for myself, being a long way away from my PC ... has anyone had any success with creating human body hair? Not fur, just the normal stuff - arms, legs, chest, etc.  Is it easy to get the hair spacing realistic? And the kinks, bends and curls (chest hair in particular). Or what about the short, fine, downy hair on some (mainly female) arms and faces?

    Screenshots or renders would be welcome.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited July 2019

    Just put this together.

    I played around with the brush opacity during the paint stage in the hopes of getting a more realistic distribution, but that doesn't seem to have worked. A previous experiment with using multiple texture sets failed, but I'll probably give that another shot for more realistic results. To get the curly effect, you'll want to lower the segment length (both under interpolation and the style curve options) as low as possible, then alternate surface attract curves with curl curves to curl the hair without folding it inside the figure. I'd keep clumping fairly low, but scraggle high, and add a very, VERY small amount of frizz.

    Selleck.png
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    Post edited by Gordig on
  • marblemarble Posts: 5,288
    Gordig said:

    Just put this together.

    ...

    I played around with the brush opacity during the paint stage in the hopes of getting a more realistic distribution, but that doesn't seem to have worked. A previous experiment with using multiple texture sets failed, but I'll probably give that another shot for more realistic results. To get the curly effect, you'll want to lower the segment length (both under interpolation and the style curve options) as low as possible, then alternate surface attract curves with curl curves to curl the hair without folding it inside the figure. I'd keep clumping fairly low, but scraggle high, and add a very, VERY small amount of frizz.

    Thank you. I see what you mean about distribution. Perhaps the suggestion elsewhere about the need for layers might be the eventual solution?

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited August 2019
    marble said:

    Thank you. I see what you mean about distribution. Perhaps the suggestion elsewhere about the need for layers might be the eventual solution?

    Layers are what I meant by "texture sets". From playing around with it just now, I remember what my issue with it was: while you can style the texture sets differently, initial length (in the distribute tab), density and most other settings are universal within a single SBH item. Ultimately, none of that matters, since the final result consists of only one texture set. So if what you meant by "layers" was multiple SBH items, that appears to be the case.

    Otherwise, I created a zone and lengthened those hairs to get a more accurate look.

    (The forum forces image widths to 800 but disregards height. Change it to 800 in the image diaolg to keep your images from stretching. ~mod)

    image

    I was, of course, basing all my modeling decisions on this picture:

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    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
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