Strand-Based Hair Mini-Tutorial

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Comments

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2019

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

     

    G8M - Strand Hair Wolverine Ver 2.png
    800 x 1040 - 1M
    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

     

    Damn, Diva. You nailed the "transitional" hairs at the start of the scalp.

    Honestly this is one of the best hair renders I've seen out of DAZ.

    My only suggestion for improvement is the sharp angles on the sides of his head. I wish there was a "smoothing" modifier for hair.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Thanks for this, Diva.

    Any tips on the right "line tessellation?" The hair geometry is coming in at 2 GB!

    I use the default - which I believe is 3. For longer hair you can often get away with a lower Distribution Density - you might try that. 

    For the Render Line Tessellation Sides I wouldn't go lower than 3 unless it's a background character - that's just my preference though. :)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    Linwelly said:

    I took the liberty to add a link to this to the Tutorial collection in the Art Section of the forums

    Thank you! :D

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Thank you for all the awesome comments everyone! That's very much appreciated! :D You all made my day with your sweet comments! heart

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    Really appreciate this, can't wait to try it out once this render finishes.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    Gone said:

    Good tutorial, but there is one small, but I think important, point that needs to be addressed.

    In the distribute tab, you refer to the amount as a percent. Since this is based on Garibaldi, the amount is actually the number of hairs generated per square centimeter. The percentage of coverage is managed by the density map.

    Using the default of 10, any part of the map that is painted full white will attempt to generate 10 hairs for each square  centimeter. An area painted 50% grey will only generate 5 hairs per square centimeter while 70% grey will generate 7, etc.

    Ah Fantastic information! Thank you. Sorry for mislabeling it as a percentage. :)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2019

    Excellent tutorial Diva, very concise and useful. yes

    One question: From what I've read, to re-use a hair you create on a different figure, it's best to work with a skull cap as a base. Is that correct, and if so where would that fit into the work flow you've described?

    I like to add it to the figure itself due to the Strand-Based Hair's ability to have "collision". It only collides with what it's built on though, so having it on a cap would be ok for short hair but longer hair I like to have it on the figure so that I can drape it across the neck, shoulders, etc (bumping the "Offset" up helps with that). What you can do, so that the strand hair is easily usable on other figures, to is build the strand hair on the figure and then parent the strand hair to the figure's head then save it as Figure/Prop Asset (File >> Save As >> Support Asset >> Figure/Prop Assets) - that, as far as I can tell, gives you the ability to add it to any figure of that generation (like if it was built on G8F, it should then fit onto any other G8F) and you can also go back in and edit it. I would make sure that, before you save it, you zero the figure's shape and pose - just to be on the safe side to help ensure that it plays well with other characters.

    I've tested this and it seems to work well. I created the hair on Base Genesis 8 Female, parented to the head, Zeroed the figure's pose (the shape was already the base shape), then saved it as a Figure/Prop Asset. I then was able to load it onto other Genesis 8 Female characters - even extreme toon characters, and it fit really well. I was even able to go in and edit the strand hair on those figures. So, as far as I can tell, saving it as a figure/prop asset works really well. You do have to make sure to Parent the hair to the head first or it doesn't work (at least I wasn't able to get it to work without parenting to the head first).

    (EDIT - Never mind about saving it as a Figure/Prop Asset - as there seems to be a glitch with that and the hair not showing up in the proper place. I'm not sure if it's just on my end or if it's a known issue. It seemed to work fine doing it that way yesterday, but today I can't get the hair to show upon rendering in the proper place. If I load it onto base G8F and then Unparent it THEN change the figure's pose and shape, it's fine and renders properly on the head. But loading it onto another character doesn't seem to get it to show up in the right place. The Guide Curves are in the right place but not the hair itself. For now, it might be safest to save it as a Scene Subset with the figure and just load the character's shape and textures onto the figure. Hopefull the glitch is something that can be worked out.)

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

     

    Damn, Diva. You nailed the "transitional" hairs at the start of the scalp.

    Honestly this is one of the best hair renders I've seen out of DAZ.

    My only suggestion for improvement is the sharp angles on the sides of his head. I wish there was a "smoothing" modifier for hair.

    Thank you! I believe you can fix the "sharp angles" with some more subtle combing and decreasing the "segment length". I was too lazy though. lol 

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

     

    Damn, Diva. You nailed the "transitional" hairs at the start of the scalp.

    Honestly this is one of the best hair renders I've seen out of DAZ.

    My only suggestion for improvement is the sharp angles on the sides of his head. I wish there was a "smoothing" modifier for hair.

    Thank you! I believe you can fix the "sharp angles" with some more subtle combing and decreasing the "segment length". I was too lazy though. lol 

    I don't think you can show us this render + the tutorial you made and claim to be "lazy."

    Also, I want to apologize for my tone in a previous discussion re: hair+deForce+PA. I was out of line. 

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,230
    edited June 2019

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

    Awesome, Diva. Can I buy this from you?

    - Greg

    ETA: And thank you for taking the time to create the tutorial and post it ;)

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    Every time I've used SBH so far, it ignores the base and tip color settings I enter into the dialogue, and the surfaces end up looking like the attachment. Why is this happening, and what can I do to prevent it?

    SBHfail.png
    394 x 578 - 37K
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 458

    I remember your original comment. It's fine. :) Real head hair is often super fine strands and dense growth:

    Thanks  smiley.  Was in one of those get stuff done moods when posted.  Afterwards felt kinda OT & other given all the generous effort you'd put in making this tut for everyone.

    K so LOL you are very nice to ask me "I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?"

    Feel that centre widow peak looks so much better! Like really almost purfect. 

    For my fussy eyes (eyeroll at myself) I'd love to see similar finer transition along the whole front top hairline to either side.  But can that be done with one hairpiece?  About the sides I can't tell is if it's just the uncommon hairstyle.   But it looks still a bit too uniform? Was looking at some hairstyles just now.  Feel the hair also needs to start softer on sides too.   But hey what do i know?  You have guys already offering cash for this.  And the centre top really does look really good! laugh

    Thanks for replying to this fussy-fussterblushcheeky  Very nice of you.

     

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    Clearly I have mastered this.

    SBH.png
    996 x 881 - 656K
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

     

    Damn, Diva. You nailed the "transitional" hairs at the start of the scalp.

    Honestly this is one of the best hair renders I've seen out of DAZ.

    My only suggestion for improvement is the sharp angles on the sides of his head. I wish there was a "smoothing" modifier for hair.

    Thank you! I believe you can fix the "sharp angles" with some more subtle combing and decreasing the "segment length". I was too lazy though. lol 

    I don't think you can show us this render + the tutorial you made and claim to be "lazy."

    Also, I want to apologize for my tone in a previous discussion re: hair+deForce+PA. I was out of line. 

    Thanks for the apology. :) That's very big of you! 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    rynmtylr said:

    Every time I've used SBH so far, it ignores the base and tip color settings I enter into the dialogue, and the surfaces end up looking like the attachment. Why is this happening, and what can I do to prevent it?

    See where it says "Shader: <Multiple>" - there are multiple types of shaders applied to it so it's not properly reading the changes. For some reason I think it loads that way by default (I THINK). What I do is apply the Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader to it (found in Shader Presets >> Shader Presets >> dForce Hair), then you can make the tweaks needed and it should read them properly. 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009
    rynmtylr said:

    Clearly I have mastered this.

    Be-You-Tee-Full   LOL :D 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    I remember your original comment. It's fine. :) Real head hair is often super fine strands and dense growth:

    Thanks  smiley.  Was in one of those get stuff done moods when posted.  Afterwards felt kinda OT & other given all the generous effort you'd put in making this tut for everyone.

    K so LOL you are very nice to ask me "I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?"

    Feel that centre widow peak looks so much better! Like really almost purfect. 

    For my fussy eyes (eyeroll at myself) I'd love to see similar finer transition along the whole front top hairline to either side.  But can that be done with one hairpiece?  About the sides I can't tell is if it's just the uncommon hairstyle.   But it looks still a bit too uniform? Was looking at some hairstyles just now.  Feel the hair also needs to start softer on sides too.   But hey what do i know?  You have guys already offering cash for this.  And the centre top really does look really good! laugh

    Thanks for replying to this fussy-fussterblushcheeky  Very nice of you.

     

    Yeah, I'm sure there is a way to make it less uniform - there are all kinds of settings and stuff that I still have no idea what they really do. Thinks like "seed", "pitch" "roll" and "yaw", and "single guide" etc that likely can add more randomness and less uniformity. I still have a lot of learning to do. :) I know that you can also add things like density maps, length maps, etc. These are all things I haven't even touched on yet that I'm sure will help bring more realism and a bit more of the natural "chaos" that real hair has. LOTS to learn! heheh :) I'm having fun learning though.

    It's a great addition to Daz Studio and I'm so happy that it's here. I've been wanting to learn how to make hair for a long time but have always gotten frustrated in ZBrush and other programs when I've tried there. Seams like the steps needed to take in those programs are unnecessarily complicated at times. Being able to make strand-based hair right inside Daz Studio is incredible, imo! :D It's SO MUCH FASTER and EASIER than other methods I've tried to do. I LOVE it and am having a lot of fun learning it. :) Like I said, still lots to learn, but the learning is fun. 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,009

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

    Awesome, Diva. Can I buy this from you?

    - Greg

    ETA: And thank you for taking the time to create the tutorial and post it ;)

    hahah It's not nearly "sellable". I don't know how to make adjustment morphs or fits or even how to package it. It makes me feel good that someone likes it enough to want to buy it though. I really need to figure out how to package strand-based hair for sale and how to do all the expected fits and adjustment morphs etc. And people would likely expect it to be dForce as well - which I have no clue how to do. It would take a LOT of work and a lot of studying and learning in order to turn it into something that is sellable. It's something I'd love to learn how to do though. :D

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756
    edited June 2019

    It's probably too much to hope for, but can this do African hair? I've fiddled with all the settings I could think to, and the closest I could get is this. The clumping, scraggle and frizz settings seem to create sharp angles rather than curls, so even more loosely curled hair may be out of reach, at least as it currently works.

    Afro.png
    996 x 881 - 766K
    Afro2.png
    996 x 881 - 868K
    Post edited by Gordig on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,230
    edited June 2019

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

    Awesome, Diva. Can I buy this from you?

    - Greg

    ETA: And thank you for taking the time to create the tutorial and post it ;)

    hahah It's not nearly "sellable". I don't know how to make adjustment morphs or fits or even how to package it. It makes me feel good that someone likes it enough to want to buy it though. I really need to figure out how to package strand-based hair for sale and how to do all the expected fits and adjustment morphs etc. And people would likely expect it to be dForce as well - which I have no clue how to do. It would take a LOT of work and a lot of studying and learning in order to turn it into something that is sellable. It's something I'd love to learn how to do though. :D

    It just looks so cool - it’s oozing with style! Would dForce ruin that? Looks like it’s got enough product in there so it’s not going anywhere lol

    - Greg

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • cdpro_2831bbd990cdpro_2831bbd990 Posts: 1,430
    edited June 2019

    Thanks Diva!

    Your mini tutorial gave me the push to give the fiber hair a try. :)  Here's a quick render after messing with it for 5 minutes on my new Suzume character ( I only let it render to 40%).  BTW...How do you add hair textures?  Will regular Iray hair shaders work?  The color on this render is just whatever the hair generator was already set to.

    Also, once you've created a fiber hair, how do you save it as a hair prop?

    suzume fbre hr test1A.jpg
    951 x 1120 - 366K
    Post edited by cdpro_2831bbd990 on
  • marblemarble Posts: 5,277

    Hey really nice work! and super cool example!  You got that wolverine look down pretty great. smiley

    Edit#2:  Deleted my wondering question.  Realized wrong place & time to ask this.  Sorry. blush

    Thanks for making this excellent contribution to the very very important 3D hair evolution !  yes

    I lowered the Base thickness and increased the Density. Does the hairline look any better here?

     

    For a moment there I thought you had posted a real-life picture for comparison. Superb work with the scalp/hairline - much better. Perhaps you could add to your tutorial to include a description of how you achieved that realism? 

  • mininessiemininessie Posts: 319

    thank you so much!

  • rynmtylr said:

    Every time I've used SBH so far, it ignores the base and tip color settings I enter into the dialogue, and the surfaces end up looking like the attachment. Why is this happening, and what can I do to prevent it?

    See where it says "Shader: <Multiple>" - there are multiple types of shaders applied to it so it's not properly reading the changes. For some reason I think it loads that way by default (I THINK). What I do is apply the Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader to it (found in Shader Presets >> Shader Presets >> dForce Hair), then you can make the tweaks needed and it should read them properly. 

    It's saying multiple because the hair has two kinds of surfaces - one for 3delight and one for Iray - because of the different ways they work, each of whichj has the correct default shader applied. Select the individual surfaces to see which sahder is applied to each, if you are aiming for only one render engien you can ignore the other surface(s).

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,250
    rynmtylr said:

    Every time I've used SBH so far, it ignores the base and tip color settings I enter into the dialogue, and the surfaces end up looking like the attachment. Why is this happening, and what can I do to prevent it?

    See where it says "Shader: <Multiple>" - there are multiple types of shaders applied to it so it's not properly reading the changes. For some reason I think it loads that way by default (I THINK). What I do is apply the Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader to it (found in Shader Presets >> Shader Presets >> dForce Hair), then you can make the tweaks needed and it should read them properly. 

    It's saying multiple because the hair has two kinds of surfaces - one for 3delight and one for Iray - because of the different ways they work, each of whichj has the correct default shader applied. Select the individual surfaces to see which sahder is applied to each, if you are aiming for only one render engien you can ignore the other surface(s).

    They don't try to render each other?

    (i.e. Iray doesn't try to render the 3delight shader?)

  • GordigGordig Posts: 3,756

    I'm starting to think I may be drastically overestimating what this system is capable of. Trying to style the hair beyond a certain angle causes massive flyaways and other problems.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 69,891
    edited June 2019
    rynmtylr said:

    Every time I've used SBH so far, it ignores the base and tip color settings I enter into the dialogue, and the surfaces end up looking like the attachment. Why is this happening, and what can I do to prevent it?

    See where it says "Shader: <Multiple>" - there are multiple types of shaders applied to it so it's not properly reading the changes. For some reason I think it loads that way by default (I THINK). What I do is apply the Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader to it (found in Shader Presets >> Shader Presets >> dForce Hair), then you can make the tweaks needed and it should read them properly. 

    It's saying multiple because the hair has two kinds of surfaces - one for 3delight and one for Iray - because of the different ways they work, each of whichj has the correct default shader applied. Select the individual surfaces to see which sahder is applied to each, if you are aiming for only one render engien you can ignore the other surface(s).

    They don't try to render each other?

    (i.e. Iray doesn't try to render the 3delight shader?)

    No, they are independent. http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log_4_11_0_383

    Each active target surface of a strand-based hair now results in a separate surface/material when the Strand-Based Hair Editor is accepted; these surfaces are in addition to the Strand-Based Hair surface; these surfaces provide individual surface/material access to the configuration of the hair for non-RSL-based rendering pipelines (e.g., OpenGL, NVIDIA Iray); RSL-based rendering pipelines use the singular Strand-Based Hair surface/material settings

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 458
    edited June 2019

    Thinks like "seed", "pitch" "roll" and "yaw", and "single guide" etc that likely can add more randomness and less uniformity.

    LOL, remember one day when I forced myself to sit down and tried to wrap my brain around roll, pitch and yaw (as you prbly know are airplane terms used for 3D orientations too) for figure joints and how that affects mesh and their deformations, especially bigger angle changes, and combine that with multiple weights affecting each vert.  TBH my head hurt after that.  DAZ's JCMs are much better at giving reliable results.  Though do wonder about performance impact for animating eventually, but end-result is likely always worth it.

    Getting back to hair and R-P-Y, haven't made time to check how that affects things in SBH or DF-SBH.  With round hair that you can comb and physics on top of that that changes the position & shape, am having difficulty trying to visualize what impact they can have on final look.

    you can also add things like density maps, length maps, etc.

    That's srsly huge.  Still wondering if for some hairdoos, if all this can be done with one haircap or if 2 or maybe even 3 is needed.  Time will tell i guess.  Hope you find them intuitive and easy-fun!  Would guess those will be among the details that start to separate hair from really good hair.

    These are all things I haven't even touched on yet that I'm sure will help bring more realism and a bit more of the natural "chaos" that real hair has. LOTS to learn! heheh :) I'm having fun learning though.

    It's a great addition to Daz Studio and I'm so happy that it's here. I've been wanting to learn how to make hair for a long time

    +1 on all that.  And Hair does have a bit of chaos to it, doesn't it.  smiley  Not ready to dive in myself.  Other projects to do first including a bit more in depth DAZ program setup learning.  But that's why threads like this are so nice!

    but have always gotten frustrated in ZBrush and other programs when I've tried there. Seams like the steps needed to take in those programs are unnecessarily complicated at times. Being able to make strand-based hair right inside Daz Studio is incredible, imo! :D

    This workflow with SBH is really intuitive.  And it is fun to play with.  smiley  And relatively easy.  Wrote in one of the 1st SBH threads how in under 1 (or was it 2 hours?) from open program for the 1st time to end product had made up a special simpler hair attachement that I really wanted and it looked really good for my likes.  That's crazy fast.  Whereas like you write 3D modelling for hair is more challenging.  Would say it takes special mindset & abilities to make hair that way.

    It's SO MUCH FASTER and EASIER than other methods I've tried to do. I LOVE it and am having a lot of fun learning it. :) Like I said, still lots to learn, but the learning is fun. 

    Great! Think that means more fun stuff from you for all of us to look at?!  :D    /Dancing Gif      Thanks again for sharing!!

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735

    Wow, thank you!! yes  Bookmarked,

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