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Please Daz....more info on your character product promos...

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  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,499
    edited May 2019
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Elgyfu said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    None of those would make it past the review team. Again, promos are supposed to give impact.. .those are plain and dull and look like the three hours you put into it. Take that as constructive criticism as if you submitted that to DAZ, you would get the silent no-response from them that some wanting to start vendoring will get.

    To me, as a shopper, these images look like nice clear examples of what the product actually looks like.  I would expect to see some "artistic" shots too, of the character dressed and wigged, but seeing what one actually gets seems like a good idea to me.   Why are they bad for a Daz PA?

    Again, you would never see them because we have to get past the Review Team first. Understand, DAZ3D is good at what they do, otherwise you would not be here to buy their products. That comes from quality AND Presentation.

    That doesn't prevent them from including informational promos like this.

    Well actually that does since Daz chooses what gets on product pages and won't accept those... Not saying they shouldn't include informational promos at all, but those look more like test renders and would never make the cut.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited May 2019

    That said, I do include a plain image of my body shapes with a front and back, but that is a requirement for my products because I'm selling a shape, not a character so I have to show it without skin. But it takes up one panel not several images making a 360 view because too many of those images would be boring. Still this presentation is an improvement over a T-Pose shot with the figure floating over the floor. (Also note the underwear requirement for even gray scale HD shapes, so we have quite enough rules and things to do when creating promos.)

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    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 6,208
    edited May 2019
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Post edited by RawArt on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,499
    Taoz said:
    Leana said:
    Elgyfu said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    None of those would make it past the review team. Again, promos are supposed to give impact.. .those are plain and dull and look like the three hours you put into it. Take that as constructive criticism as if you submitted that to DAZ, you would get the silent no-response from them that some wanting to start vendoring will get.

    To me, as a shopper, these images look like nice clear examples of what the product actually looks like.  I would expect to see some "artistic" shots too, of the character dressed and wigged, but seeing what one actually gets seems like a good idea to me.   Why are they bad for a Daz PA?

    None of those "sell" the product or make me want to purchase it. They don't give you any idea of what you can do with it or how well it would work with other products, just a bland view with default light and neutral background which is not inspiring at all, and IMO doesn't actually give you a good example of what the product looks like as unless you only use the default light with a grey background it won't look like that when you use it.

    (for the record, I'm not a PA, just another customer)

    No one said these should replace the existing promos. And basically it's just about the info they provide, which is often lacking. Provide the basic info in a consistent way according to a set of rules, and then add artistic renders as much as you like. I've personally skipped quite a few products which I liked when looking at the artistic renders, but which lacked factual information. I'm tired of purchasing products just to find out whether they have or can what I want, and then returning them if they don't. It's too troublesome.

    I don't think there should only be artistic renders either, but there are much better ways to provide info about the product than a bland test render under default light with a defaul background, which doesn't really bring useful information IMO.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited May 2019

    Also, I include an image to show some of the bending of my shapes since I include JCMs, mostly in the upper arm and hip/thigh areas. Simple, but I can condense it to one panel as well. 

    But the artistic ones are going to create the sales and the buzz. No one says a thing about these grey-shaded renders because they aren't what really sells the package.

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    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,344
    Leana said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Elgyfu said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    None of those would make it past the review team. Again, promos are supposed to give impact.. .those are plain and dull and look like the three hours you put into it. Take that as constructive criticism as if you submitted that to DAZ, you would get the silent no-response from them that some wanting to start vendoring will get.

    To me, as a shopper, these images look like nice clear examples of what the product actually looks like.  I would expect to see some "artistic" shots too, of the character dressed and wigged, but seeing what one actually gets seems like a good idea to me.   Why are they bad for a Daz PA?

    Again, you would never see them because we have to get past the Review Team first. Understand, DAZ3D is good at what they do, otherwise you would not be here to buy their products. That comes from quality AND Presentation.

    That doesn't prevent them from including informational promos like this.

    Well actually that does since Daz chooses what gets on product pages and won't accept those... Not saying they shouldn't include informational promos at all, but those look more like test renders and would never make the cut.

    No one prevents DAZ from changing their policies. The renders I made can easily be improved, the main point is the information they contain. Look at Turbosquid, they have lots of that kind of simple, but informative (incl. nude) promos, and they seem to be doing quite well. Even their artistic promos often look like something a newbie could do in DS.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited May 2019
    Taoz said:
    Leana said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Elgyfu said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    None of those would make it past the review team. Again, promos are supposed to give impact.. .those are plain and dull and look like the three hours you put into it. Take that as constructive criticism as if you submitted that to DAZ, you would get the silent no-response from them that some wanting to start vendoring will get.

    To me, as a shopper, these images look like nice clear examples of what the product actually looks like.  I would expect to see some "artistic" shots too, of the character dressed and wigged, but seeing what one actually gets seems like a good idea to me.   Why are they bad for a Daz PA?

    Again, you would never see them because we have to get past the Review Team first. Understand, DAZ3D is good at what they do, otherwise you would not be here to buy their products. That comes from quality AND Presentation.

    That doesn't prevent them from including informational promos like this.

    Well actually that does since Daz chooses what gets on product pages and won't accept those... Not saying they shouldn't include informational promos at all, but those look more like test renders and would never make the cut.

    No one prevents DAZ from changing their policies. The renders I made can easily be improved, the main point is the information they contain. Look at Turbosquid, they have lots of that kind of simple, but informative (incl. nude) promos, and they seem to be doing quite well. Even their artistic promos often look like something a newbie could do in DS.

    Policy changes require business justification. As RawArt mentioned, doing what they do now increased sales where what you are suggest was a factor in lower sales. I tried some of what you suggested (which was actually demanded by DAZ years ago) and they resulted in FLOPS. Took a lot of back and forth over time to get to where I can present my promos in the manner they are now.. and they have the increased sales to back them up. Also, turbosquid would not be a good example unless you have access to business figures of the vendors selling product. Just because they do promos a certain way does not mean sales are increased from that presentation.

    Again, what you suggest does not make money and businesses are supposed to make money.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • MisselthwaiteMisselthwaite Posts: 961

    A poor promo would be an active detriment to sales that are driven by visual appeal and sales hype, which is Daz's modus operandi. 

    Careful shoppers want details and information.  They are the ones who wait for early consumers to post pictures and information.  I suspect many Daz customers do not fall into this category, and that the Forums generally are not representational of the impulsive/compulsive people who see, "oooh, pretty!" and toss it in their cart. :-)

    Good promotional images will both inspire and provide information, requiring less debate on both sides of the customer coin, resulting in more sales.  The Forums, too, are a potential resource, though I suspect they tend to encourage a cool-down period of contemplation, which may not feed as well into the main marketing strategy, but suffice for back-up and support in a minimal sense.  The Daz browser add-on enhances considerably  this by attaching Forum topics and Gallery images to products, allowing information to be gleaned more readily - if the consumer utilizes it.

    If the numerical or stylistic restriction of promo images is actually an issue, then perhaps what should be agitated for is a link from the product page to a commercial announcement in the Forums, which could include the sort of images that provide information about the product; clay renders, multiple views, additional textures, etc.  People seeking information are not terribly fussy about format or artistic value - this would allow such concerns to be minimalized as appropriate for the venue.

  • GreeboGreebo Posts: 166
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited May 2019
    Greebo said:
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

    No, it's sales. Really, are we discussing business or emotions? We're giving you business reasons that we have backed up with sales. I don't understand how people want us to lose money with ideas we already know don't work. Please, give us a business jusiftication, not just because you think you want it.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 6,208
    Greebo said:
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

    There are not as many returns as some people may imagine.....I might get one for every thousand of my products library sold....and of the returns that do come, not many are duplicated

     

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    RawArt said:
    Greebo said:
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

    There are not as many returns as some people may imagine.....I might get one for every thousand of my products library sold....and of the returns that do come, not many are duplicated

     

    I have the same experience, I've only had one return in two years.. and that was from a product from a few years ago.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,344
    Male-M3dia said:
    Greebo said:
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

    No, it's sales. Really, are we discussing business or emotions? We're giving you business reasons that we have backed up with sales. I don't understand how people want us to lose money with ideas we already know don't work. Please, give us a business jusiftication, not just because you think you want it.

    Well some products don't sell very well, others sell way beyond expectation. Do you think it's the promos, or the quality of the products, that's the reason for that?

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 6,208

    Also please realize.....it is not Customers vs PA's on this.

    It is not like PA's are wanting to do things that customers don't want. It would be much easier to do plain boring renders with ugly lights and A-Pose. But what were are explaining it that from our years of experience and working with DAZ we have found that customers do like to be inspired by the products, so we go out to do our best to show what our products can really do. It is more work, but it does show in the appreciation we get as judged by the sales made.

    So we are not just here to argue with you and what you want, we are sharing what we have learned. Because we are all always experimenting with ways to get better products...better/more useful promos and ultimatley more sales (because we are greedy PA's afterall LOL)

    Somtimes it might seem logical for things to be a certain way...but the reality plays out much different. That happens all the time in this world. In this case it might seem logical for plain promo pictures, but history and experience has taught us different.

     

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Greebo said:
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

    No, it's sales. Really, are we discussing business or emotions? We're giving you business reasons that we have backed up with sales. I don't understand how people want us to lose money with ideas we already know don't work. Please, give us a business jusiftication, not just because you think you want it.

    Well some products don't sell very well, others sell way beyond expectation. Do you think it's the promos, or the quality of the products, that's the reason for that?

    A combination of both. But the presentation is the first impression; so they have to have impact for the customer to put it in their shopping cart for payment.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,499
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Greebo said:
    RawArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    New philosophy folks....the customer is always WRONG. ;)

    Laurie

    No..the customer is right.....but what a customer really wants is shown by the number of sales made

     

    Nope. It's the number of refunds due to lack of info prior to purchase...

    No, it's sales. Really, are we discussing business or emotions? We're giving you business reasons that we have backed up with sales. I don't understand how people want us to lose money with ideas we already know don't work. Please, give us a business jusiftication, not just because you think you want it.

    Well some products don't sell very well, others sell way beyond expectation. Do you think it's the promos, or the quality of the products, that's the reason for that?

    Both, combined with several other reasons like type/theme of the product, release timing, sales it was part of, ....

  • PetraPetra Posts: 1,157
    Male-M3dia said:
    Cybersox said:
    Gogger said:
    AllenArt said:

    Would it be so difficult to do what other PA's do and show what the character looks like with NO makeup, a picture of all the eye colors or a picture of all the makeups? Showing the character with different expressions, poses and outfits shows me nothing really about the character that I'd like to know.

    Thanks for listening.

    Laurie

    +1

    "Makeup Option 0" should be a basic requirement.

    + 1 cubed.

    The thing is, it's very clear that DAZ is more interested in pictures that look interesting than in pictures that actually show all the details of the product.  While I generally dislike the overall look of the Renderosity site, I think they do a better job of showing what the product really looks like, especially when it comes to things like skin textures. 

    But those vendors make way less money than they would here. Not everything that one would request makes an item sell more.

    If I buy something no matter how much it costs, I want to know what I am buying. I think what a vendor earns has nothing to do with it. I would love to see what has included in the product and not just pretty promo pictures, I can find those in the Galleries.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited May 2019
    PBR said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Cybersox said:
    Gogger said:
    AllenArt said:

    Would it be so difficult to do what other PA's do and show what the character looks like with NO makeup, a picture of all the eye colors or a picture of all the makeups? Showing the character with different expressions, poses and outfits shows me nothing really about the character that I'd like to know.

    Thanks for listening.

    Laurie

    +1

    "Makeup Option 0" should be a basic requirement.

    + 1 cubed.

    The thing is, it's very clear that DAZ is more interested in pictures that look interesting than in pictures that actually show all the details of the product.  While I generally dislike the overall look of the Renderosity site, I think they do a better job of showing what the product really looks like, especially when it comes to things like skin textures. 

    But those vendors make way less money than they would here. Not everything that one would request makes an item sell more.

    If I buy something no matter how much it costs, I want to know what I am buying. I think what a vendor earns has nothing to do with it. I would love to see what has included in the product and not just pretty promo pictures, I can find those in the Galleries.

    Again it's a balance between what a customer wants and what SELLS. If your idea costs me money, I can't include it. However the forum is for requesting additional information which should be a resource in addition to the promo presentation. Again the requested renders aren't promos... they're renders and don't belong in PROMOS. There is a difference between the two.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • GreeboGreebo Posts: 166

    Guys. Keep in this in mind;
    "You need us far more than we need you"

    You have competition on this, and other sites.

    You may not like that we are asking for more info in the promo's, But:

    Get over it

    Provide the info requested.

    I don't see a problem in accommodating a simple customer request.

    You do act like it is a "Us vs. Them" situation, and that is bad publicity.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    Greebo said:

    Guys. Keep in this in mind;
    "You need us far more than we need you"

    You have competition on this, and other sites.

    You may not like that we are asking for more info in the promo's, But:

    Get over it

    Provide the info requested.

    I don't see a problem in accommodating a simple customer request.

    You do act like it is a "Us vs. Them" situation, and that is bad publicity.

    It's not a Us vs Them situation. What is being asked is something that wouldn't even make the initial submission to DAZ, and would be rejected immediately because it has shown not to increase sales.  Turning that into an emotional response to be angry at PAs is ultimately unproductive.

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 404

    Actually I kind of liked those plain simple promos from Taoz. Those showed the character and morphs very well, but what do I know,  I'm still hoping for 1 neutral light promo pic for skins too... I do admit, that when I started shopping at Daz, I made some impulse buys because of those fancy candy cotton promos, but nowadays I much prefer simple and informative ones if I could choose.

  • GreeboGreebo Posts: 166

    Whenever this subject surfaces I see the same old names arguing with their potential customers.
    To what end?

    It's really simple: Who is asking for who's money here?

    Ya know, there are some really great PAs here who DO listen and don't argue.
    A lady from the the southern hemisphere is a fantastic example.

    If she can do it then all the arguments cited here don't count to a hill of beans...
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Waiting for a mod to lock the thread ... Yawns and reaches for Popcorn...)
    Knock your self out guys... :-)

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,115

    What people end up buying is the most solid communication of what they want.

    As PAs, we want to give customers what they want.

    The thing is, sales communicate this far more reliably than forum posts.

    So... we ARE providing the promos people want.

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 404
    Greebo said:

    Waiting for a mod to lock the thread ... Yawns and reaches for Popcorn...)
    Knock your self out guys... :-)

    1...2...3...I still made it laugh But yeah, you are right. These threads that ask any kind of change to Daz shop tend to get locked by the same people over and over again. Shame really....

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,115

    Greebo: I care about my customers and I don't want them to be confused because they don't understand what's going on, because they think the PAs are chortling and rolling around on their sacks of loot plundered from poor unsuspecting customers.

    It's an earnest attempt to inform, to give insight into stuff that might not be obvious if you aren't involved in the work.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 111,315

    This thread does seem to be descending into acrimony, and is mainly reiterating points of view that have already been aired earlier in the thread, so yes - closed.

This discussion has been closed.