Doors! Give us doors!

maclean

Psyckosama said:

akmerlow said:

Oso3D said:

rrward said:

Oso3D said:

And sometimes users lack the experience and information to realize what requests are actually reasonable.

Doors aren't reasonable?

Sometimes, no, they aren't.

For example, I think people complained that Streets of Morocco didn't have usable doors. There's... dozens of doors, all over a very expansive environment. Making every one of them (or even a substantial number of them) open would then require additional rooms inside to be modeled, vastly expanding the scope of work.

The product already is priced at $42.95... putting in all that extra work, how much higher could that price go?

 

One of workarounds i know is when you dont make additional room, but there is a picture that imitates environment behind. Like that fake landscape which is texture behind window.

Or even just do a small box with some reused textures. It doesn't have to be a detailed room, just something that gives a hint of depth. If they want more, they can add a proper room.

Just remember that if you do use a box with texs as a room, lighting will play a part. You may have to light it minimally - for example, in Iray with low emissive surfaces for the box walls - otherwise, it may just look like a black box in shadow. Which of course, could be ok, but most rooms have at least one window which would let in some light.

Oso3D

Amusingly, I just watched a Sci Fi short film in which the characters were in a room with no doors. ;)

(It's on the Dust channel, 'Final Offer')

 

nicstt

namffuak said:

nicstt said:

Oso3D said:

rrward said:

Oso3D said:

And sometimes users lack the experience and information to realize what requests are actually reasonable.

Doors aren't reasonable?

Sometimes, no, they aren't.

For example, I think people complained that Streets of Morocco didn't have usable doors. There's... dozens of doors, all over a very expansive environment. Making every one of them (or even a substantial number of them) open would then require additional rooms inside to be modeled, vastly expanding the scope of work.

The product already is priced at $42.95... putting in all that extra work, how much higher could that price go?

 

This is the important point, when Will was talking about design decissions. I want the product to fit into a certain price-range; what can I leave out to make it do that, and what must I include?

Different folks will have different requirements.

I'll give a pass to large scenes - too much work, too much load on a system if all the doors and/or windows are rigged. I've watched far too many TV shows lately, and this sequence of events is fairly common: Long shot, character walking toward door in building; cut to - closeup of door, with hand in frame reaching for knob or equivalent; cut to - character in room, door behind him. And we've moved from a closed set street to a rented building or a sound stage.

But rooms? Rooms need to at least have a visible way in and out that does not require a transporter, magic, or a giant hand lowering someone in from the top.

Need? Perhaps; I use windows more than doors, although I do use them if there.

WendyLuvsCatz

later addittons

https://www.daz3d.com/parallel-lounge

https://www.daz3d.com/fayfield-room

chris-2599934

I just found this one. Not only is there nowhere to change, but if you want to get in or out you have to climb over the fence.

https://www.daz3d.com/public-outdoor-pool

WendyLuvsCatz

chris-2599934 said:

I just found this one. Not only is there nowhere to change, but if you want to get in or out you have to climb over the fence.

https://www.daz3d.com/public-outdoor-pool

and the cops are there waiting

alan bard newcomer

FirstBastion said:

Blind Owl said:

Someone on these forums (I think it was FirstBastion) once said "Entrances and exits are storytelling." .Indeed.

That does sound like something I'd say. 

I concur  give us doors. And structurally accurate buildings too.

 

structurally accurate buildings..  yes and doorknobs 36 to 38 inches from the floor ..  which means in the lower half of the door. 
Even in this modern time of only 8 foot ceiling with the standard door about 6 foot 8 tall so 80 inches the knob will be below the center line. 
And if you're modeling anything older etc with 8 foot doors the knob will be noticably towards the bottom of the door. 
---
And those four sided envirments? I picked up one because I liked the contents, however outside of shooting exactly where the sample cameras were placed you couldn't 
because the four walls and the roof were one surface meaning you could opacity out all the walls or none. 
As I recall I used geometry editor to knock out the plain walls and replaced them with new ones.


 

Silent Winter

alan bard newcomer said:

And those four sided envirments? I picked up one because I liked the contents, however outside of shooting exactly where the sample cameras were placed you couldn't 

because the four walls and the roof were one surface meaning you could opacity out all the walls or none. 
As I recall I used geometry editor to knock out the plain walls and replaced them with new ones.

I tend to make those separate bones if I'm building a set, if not separate objects altogether, so it's easy to turn them invisible with a click (cutout opacity of surfaces is a nice bonus but shouldn't need to be the main form of making something invisible in the scene, IMO). As you say, geometry editor can help out if the set doesn't come with it.

chris-2599934

alan bard newcomer said:

And those four sided envirments? I picked up one because I liked the contents, however outside of shooting exactly where the sample cameras were placed you couldn't because the four walls and the roof were one surface meaning you could opacity out all the walls or none. As I recall I used geometry editor to knock out the plain walls and replaced them with new ones.

I'm doing a series of shots inside a small room myself at the moment. The camera is almost invariably outside the room.

The way I deal with that is to use an Iray Section Plane to cut off the wall(s) in question. This is a superior solution to hiding the wall surface, as it means light from the outside environment won't shine in through the vacant wall. Plus you aren't dependent on surfaces and/or bones that conform to your requirements. I set the room's walls to be not visible in the viewport so I can line up my shots without them getting in the way.

WendyLuvsCatz

in some of my softwares I use backface culling

sadly PBR doesn't support that or for that matter DAZ studio with any render engine

Poser, Carrara will but not with Superfly or Octane and other programs like iClone, Twinmotion it is the default, the latter also has the sectioning

Richard Haseltine

chris-2599934 said:

alan bard newcomer said:

And those four sided envirments? I picked up one because I liked the contents, however outside of shooting exactly where the sample cameras were placed you couldn't because the four walls and the roof were one surface meaning you could opacity out all the walls or none. As I recall I used geometry editor to knock out the plain walls and replaced them with new ones.

I'm doing a series of shots inside a small room myself at the moment. The camera is almost invariably outside the room.

The way I deal with that is to use an Iray Section Plane to cut off the wall(s) in question. This is a superior solution to hiding the wall surface, as it means light from the outside environment won't shine in through the vacant wall. Plus you aren't dependent on surfaces and/or bones that conform to your requirements. I set the room's walls to be not visible in the viewport so I can line up my shots without them getting in the way.

In order to block outside light ypu do have to turn on Clip Lights in the Paramertes pane, it is (unless there's been a change) off by default.

WendyLuvsCatz

https://www.daz3d.com/dark-mood-bathroom

does have a window and plenty of lightbulbs though 

Nath

WendyLuvsCatz said:

https://www.daz3d.com/dark-mood-bathroom

does have a window and plenty of lightbulbs though 

It does actually have a door as well. Left hand bottom corner on the black wall - you can see the handle from the top shot, and the door is shown in one of the promo pictures.

WendyLuvsCatz

Nath said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

https://www.daz3d.com/dark-mood-bathroom

does have a window and plenty of lightbulbs though 

It does actually have a door as well. Left hand bottom corner on the black wall - you can see the handle from the top shot, and the door is shown in one of the promo pictures.

oh blends well, oops sorry

I would love to wash in there but not pay the electricity bill 

Nath

WendyLuvsCatz said:

Nath said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

https://www.daz3d.com/dark-mood-bathroom

does have a window and plenty of lightbulbs though 

It does actually have a door as well. Left hand bottom corner on the black wall - you can see the handle from the top shot, and the door is shown in one of the promo pictures.

oh blends well, oops sorry

I would love to wash in there but not pay the electricity bill 

I missed it at first as well - it is a nice set (wishlisted!), but I'm glad the electricity bill is virtual

Sevrin

WendyLuvsCatz said:

Nath said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

https://www.daz3d.com/dark-mood-bathroom

does have a window and plenty of lightbulbs though 

It does actually have a door as well. Left hand bottom corner on the black wall - you can see the handle from the top shot, and the door is shown in one of the promo pictures.

oh blends well, oops sorry

I would love to wash in there but not pay the electricity bill 

Not sure if I'd wanna shower with all those lights behind me in front of a big window like that. The twin toilets with the glass partition suggests this bathroom is not meant for the shy, though.  

Sigurd

Maybe this is what it looks like inside an Oubliette?

magog_a4eb71ab

Hmm... I would imagine "Rigged Doors With Frames: A Merchant Resource" would sell like hotcakes then, assuming such a product is feasible.

I have to agree that there's really no excusable reason not to have A functioning door on one of the walls of A SINGLE enclosed room. I can understand models involving large structures with many doors where it might not be such a good idea, in which case the structure should be considered a "non-functional background prop". However, if one is going to make something like a modern kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, livingroom, or any other singular enclosed room with four walls that typically needs a way to get in/out, it is in my opinion completely foolish not to have a door that opens/closes on at least one of the four walls... unless its for a character with a hat like Jarlaxle. Its like making a gun without a trigger or a character without feet. Sure, it can still be used, but those missing elements can be a severe limiting factor.

WendyLuvsCatz

 they sell men without obvious reproductive parts though , if you saw a man like that in real life you would think he was either trans or just had an unfortunate accident,   so....

Sigurd

Smoothie?

Stoic

magog_a4eb71ab said:

Hmm... I would imagine "Rigged Doors With Frames: A Merchant Resource" would sell like hotcakes then, assuming such a product is feasible.

Somthing like this?

https://www.daz3d.com/collective3d-create-a-room-xpack-2

https://www.daz3d.com/collective3d-create-a-room-xpack-3

Silent Winter

^Yeah, there's already doors and windows for the end-user (I considered making a set before realising they already existed - I think Maclean has some too in the kits he sells - yep, see quote-chain below).

maclean said:

Silent Winter said:

namffuak said:

Silent Winter said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

but there needs to be a door somewhere in the first place even if a mockup one 

Well, yeah - the sets that forget the existence of doors completely...that boggles the mind, LOL

(Maybe we need a 'doors pack' with a variety of figure-prop doors (with optional green-screen plane after opening) so you can add them to any wall in a scene - I'll add it to the to-do list if it doesn't exist already)

Like these? Windows and doors for Backdrops made easy. Or Room creator version 2? And I think there are several others, but I'm coming up blank right now.

Groovy, looks like this is covered - are those doors able to be separated? (The walls won't fit every room) - I guess Geometry editor would cover this if it's not a separate bone/mat-zone.

In Room Creator, the door and wall are separate body parts which can be switched off/on. In fact, most of the doors have over 20 body parts to make them easily configurable.

Those aren't Merchant Resources as magog_a4eb71ab suggested but I'm not sure an MR would do so well. Either the PAs don't care about including doors (even unrigged ones) or they can do their own in a style that fits their room. This kind of MR would need a large range of doors (+windows) to sell.

WendyLuvsCatz

all you need is a couple cubes and a sphere

I think most modelling programs have those

Silent Winter

^That'd be a pretty low-poly door. Wouldn't render too well. Now bevel those cubes (well, cuboids once you've adjusted them to door shape), extrude part of the sphere, and bingo. But you'd still need to uv-map and texture them. Rigging them in DS requires first poking a hole in one of those cuboids, and probably modelling a bolt and a hole in the doorframe for the bolt to go into...then maybe a rigged keyhole...or at least rig the doorknob to coincide with the bolt...until I realised nobody cared about that

WendyLuvsCatz

well I guess it depends how fancy you want to go

3 minutes using DAZ studio primitives Uber and Nvidia example shaders

just out the box no tiling shadermixer fiddling or finessing

PBR textures exist

can use the geometry editor too, this is just in D|S

we have Carrara and Hexagon

WendyLuvsCatz

a few more primitives

Silent Winter

^Not bad for background stuff, but wouldn't pass Daz's gate for PAs. But for an end-user just throwing something together for a quick render, it's fine (once you sort out the texture stretching / relative texel density). How long would you say that took you (with the extra primitives)?

WendyLuvsCatz

20 mins by the post time

I was not trying to say what a PA could do and not trying to pass it of as such

 just illustrating making a dummy door is not hard even with Studio primitives

if I actually wanted to model one I would UV map it etc, heck I would just use another door

what I was trying to say was adding a door even nonfunctional would not be a big ask of any PA

Silent Winter

WendyLuvsCatz said:

20 mins by the post time

I was not trying to say what a PA could do and not trying to pass it of as such

 just illustrating making a dummy door is not hard even with Studio primitives

if I actually wanted to model one I would UV map it etc, heck I would just use another door

what I was trying to say was adding a door even nonfunctional would not be a big ask of any PA

I agree - I find it bizarre that we get 360-degree rooms with no doors at all (functional ones add other factors, but a 'facade' door is easy enough). I'm a bit odd, I guess, in that I want to model and rig everything that should move so my doors and drawers etc will always open, handles turn, etc.

But yeah, for the end-users, if a PA hasn't included a door, it's a good idea to remember that primitives and shaders (or nicking a door from elsewhere as you say) can go a long way.

Nath

Again, no doors:  https://www.daz3d.com/secret-agents-den but I guess secret agents use the windows, or crawl in through invisible ventilation shafts?