Starting a new WIP, but forgot how to...

ViallyVially Posts: 134
edited March 6 in Hexagon Discussion

I found a really nice little bus for free, that while is just about perfect for what I have in mind, it is however in reality just one big triagulated mess when pulled into Hexigon. and only has one base "model", it is very detailed, but again, just one big model, the tires are the same group or object as the windows, which is the same as the seats and etcetera...

So I started by seperating things out into thier own groups... Select all the faces for the Window glass.. cut paste, new object, rename it, give it it's own material and shading domain, and tada! Glass.

Problem I am currently having is... oops I missed a couple faces. Okay select my "glass" group, select the new faces, cut, paste and wait, I now have 2 new objects one with all the windows I made, one with these faces that I missed.

How do I get the two together into the same sub group of the model so that all "Window Glass" is one group that can be selected?

Becomes important when I start to get inside the bus, there are a LOT of parts here that I will be rebuilding, but I want to make sure thatI can seperate out items based on what they are (for texturing and rebuilding purposes.)

 

Thanks in advance.

V

Post edited by Vially on
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  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Okay, so providing an image of what I am talking about.

    In image Glass001 you can see the side of the bus, and everything that I have assigned to the "glass" material. No issues there with 99% of the 'glass'. I did however, do what I do, and forgot to add the lower 4 panes when I did my original Cut & Paste to create a new scene object. So now I am stuck with 2 scene objects that are "glass" and I honestly only want 1 for now.

    I think of it in terms of changing the layer of an object, it is on layer 1, I want it on layer 2, so move it to layer 2... However I cannot figure out or remember how to do that.

    Image 3 shows the scene object listing, basicly Window Glass and Forgotten glass need to be combined into one object within the scene.

    Thanks again.

    V

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  • MaxHancockMaxHancock Posts: 187

    To combine two objects that are physically separated... you can select the two parts, pressing shift,  then go to the Surface Modeling tab and choose Weld. 

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,014

    Also, you don't have to cut/paste. You can use Extract to take the selected faces and make them their own object. It may not be any faster, just pointing out another way that would work.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    To combine two objects that are physically separated... you can select the two parts, pressing shift,  then go to the Surface Modeling tab and choose Weld. 

    Thanks Max, I think that is exactly what I needed, will allow me to start pulling the body of this thing apart to rebuild it.The model is huge, not in scale, but in volume of lines and faces. Have attached another Image to give an idea on the amount of work changing this model over involves... Yes that is a FULLY modelled engine that can be seen behind the front grille... each face is triangulated. I man even the numbers on the speedometer are modelled, and hence triangulated... This might take a while, but hopefully when done I will have learned a whole bunch of new stuff cool

     

    JonnyRay said:

    Also, you don't have to cut/paste. You can use Extract to take the selected faces and make them their own object. It may not be any faster, just pointing out another way that would work.

    Thanks Johnny, am following your Comerro project, so maybe we can swap horrer stories as I get farther into this one. Will have to try the extract. I think I'm ready to start pulling apart and grouping this model into it's different aspects/pieces... Lots of tedium work, but a good way to relax after a long day on the 9-5. (7:00-6:45 in my case most days.)

     

    Decided to attach another image to show what this thing looks like right now (sans the glass which is turned off right now.) I threw in a G8F manniquin to show that it is actually fairly close to scale as it is. I am also thinking of 2 versions on the finished model, the 2nd having a bathroom in the back corner where that door is, would make it more in line with a hired out "tour" bus. We shall see, like I said, it fits a story line I am thinking about, so it's design may change as I work out the story.

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  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 301
    edited March 7
    Vially said:

    I found a really nice little bus for free, that while is just about perfect for what I have in mind, it is however in reality just one big triagulated mess when pulled into Hexigon. and only has one base "model", it is very detailed, but again, just one big model, the tires are the same group or object as the windows, which is the same as the seats and etcetera...

    "Free" means lots of mesh editing involved. The Extract and Weld tools will be your friends. Then use the Orient Normals tool to finish up with.

    Post edited by ShawnDriscoll on
  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Thanks Shawn,

    Really do not know much about normals or what/how they effect anything, other than they have something to do with if the correct side of a face is actually facing the correct way... I am probably completely wrong with that.

    A lot of this model I will just be rebuilding, using the existing model as a reference, case in point the body of the bus itself, it has over 1000 triangles, just the shell not the details added to it, just the "box". a bit excessive in my opinion. Other parts I will be rebuilding to add detail, for instance the windows need to be able to open, as do any doors, and there are lots of doors and hatches on this thing.

    One thing I'm looking at is cloning, the windows are all exactly the same, so if I rebuild one, I figure I've rebuilt them all, same with the tires, although the wheels in back are different than front, they are the same for left and right., basically there are parts that are just repeats of the same mesh (seats) made wider or shorter. I'm going to try to keep as much detail within the model as I can, without going overboard. and some I will just throw out... seriously, the numbers on the speedometer being modeled is just... well it's just, I'll leave it there laugh

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 301

    Toggle the normal view mode on and off to see what the bus mesh does. Then you will know right away what problem polygons you may have.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,014
    Vially said:
    JonnyRay said:

    Also, you don't have to cut/paste. You can use Extract to take the selected faces and make them their own object. It may not be any faster, just pointing out another way that would work.

    Thanks Johnny, am following your Comerro project, so maybe we can swap horrer stories as I get farther into this one. Will have to try the extract. I think I'm ready to start pulling apart and grouping this model into it's different aspects/pieces... Lots of tedium work, but a good way to relax after a long day on the 9-5. (7:00-6:45 in my case most days.)

    I won't tell my girlfriend that you called her Dodge Charger a Camero. :P But thanks. I'm sure we will have stories to share as we go through these projects. The car is by far the most difficult thing I've tried to model so far. Have been learning a lot!

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134
    JonnyRay said:
    Vially said:
    JonnyRay said:

    Also, you don't have to cut/paste. You can use Extract to take the selected faces and make them their own object. It may not be any faster, just pointing out another way that would work.

    Thanks Johnny, am following your Comerro project, so maybe we can swap horrer stories as I get farther into this one. Will have to try the extract. I think I'm ready to start pulling apart and grouping this model into it's different aspects/pieces... Lots of tedium work, but a good way to relax after a long day on the 9-5. (7:00-6:45 in my case most days.)

    I won't tell my girlfriend that you called her Dodge Charger a Camero. :P But thanks. I'm sure we will have stories to share as we go through these projects. The car is by far the most difficult thing I've tried to model so far. Have been learning a lot!

    I Hope she will forgive me... but see, they all look alike to me, think it has to do with them being in direct competition with each other, so what worked on one soon showed up on the other and visa-versa. (and to think, I deliver auto-body parts to collision shops for a living.)

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Toggle the normal view mode on and off to see what the bus mesh does. Then you will know right away what problem polygons you may have.

    Um, so now the complete noob aspect to my experience shines through...

    How or where do I find that option?

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,014
    Vially said:
    JonnyRay said:
    Vially said:
    JonnyRay said:

    Also, you don't have to cut/paste. You can use Extract to take the selected faces and make them their own object. It may not be any faster, just pointing out another way that would work.

    Thanks Johnny, am following your Comerro project, so maybe we can swap horrer stories as I get farther into this one. Will have to try the extract. I think I'm ready to start pulling apart and grouping this model into it's different aspects/pieces... Lots of tedium work, but a good way to relax after a long day on the 9-5. (7:00-6:45 in my case most days.)

    I won't tell my girlfriend that you called her Dodge Charger a Camero. :P But thanks. I'm sure we will have stories to share as we go through these projects. The car is by far the most difficult thing I've tried to model so far. Have been learning a lot!

    I Hope she will forgive me... but see, they all look alike to me, think it has to do with them being in direct competition with each other, so what worked on one soon showed up on the other and visa-versa. (and to think, I deliver auto-body parts to collision shops for a living.)

    I tend to agree that they do look similar. ;) However, while she isn't necessarily a big car fanatic overall, she is fanatical about the 1968 Dodge Charger. Don't try to sneak a 1969 past her, let alone a Chevy. :) 1968 was the first time the Charger was actually it's own design. The 66 and 67 models were actually re-badged Cornets. And in 1969 they redsigned the front grill and rear taillights. I've had to learn these things over the past year or so. ;) The 1969 model is easy to find in several 3D markets. The 1968 not so much. Which is why I'm creating it from scratch.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,014
    Vially said:

    Toggle the normal view mode on and off to see what the bus mesh does. Then you will know right away what problem polygons you may have.

    Um, so now the complete noob aspect to my experience shines through...

    How or where do I find that option?

    I just select "Orient Normals" from the Utilities tab.

  • A quick way to understand how the Normals work is to drag a cube into your window, click on the Backface Visibility button (bottom right of screen). Choose a face and select the Orient Normals and press the space bar until the yellow arrow is facing inwards (Apply the Accept). When you rotate the around the cube you will see the faces becoming invisible/visible. In my screen grab you are looking though one of the sides, things are facing the right way but you are seeing the inside of the cube.

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  • Wee Dangerous JohnWee Dangerous John Posts: 1,183
    edited March 7

    Edit - Clicking on the "A" in the Normals options selects all the faces, click on the A then press the space bar till all the Yellow arrows are facing outwards.

    Hope that helps :)

    Post edited by Wee Dangerous John on
  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Edit - Clicking on the "A" in the Normals options selects all the faces, click on the A then press the space bar till all the Yellow arrows are facing outwards.

    Hope that helps :)

    Define "Out"... cheeky

     

    No, seriously though, thanks, that's a big help AND another argument as to why this needs to be rebuilt. On that thought though, most of the bus body is actually just a plane, what would be "out"? Is that the way I want to have any sort of image or texture to appear on? So say for the painted side or outside of bus I want them pointing out, but Inside the bus, I want them pointing out of any sturcture but Into the bus, (where said texture would be seen or rendered.)?

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  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    A Little bit of progress, managed to get more of the body of the bus moved off into it's own object set, and that allowed me to get access to one of the bench seats. So I don't completely lose sanity by clicking faces, thought I'd start a little on the modeling.

    First thing I note on the seat is how simple it is in terms of structure, but at the same time it is put together with the "yeah that's close enough" mentality...

    So here we go, Bench Seat rebuild, I want to keep it simple, but at the same time this bus is intended to potentially be a "set" with multiple scenes within it, I also want to be able to make it sizable (width) to fit in the various places needed or if the floor plan of the bus changes.

    Will keep you posted.

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  • Wee Dangerous JohnWee Dangerous John Posts: 1,183
    edited March 8

    That's a big task you've taken on, i wish you luck with it.

    Edit - I would suggest you have a look at Max Hancock's (see his link above) latest tutorial on edge flows and smothing, I think it will help you sort some things out.

    Post edited by Wee Dangerous John on
  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Thanks,

    Intended to be learning as well as functional, depending on finished product may be something I market.

     

  • ShawnDriscollShawnDriscoll Posts: 301
    Vially said:

    No, seriously though, thanks, that's a big help AND another argument as to why this needs to be rebuilt. On that thought though, most of the bus body is actually just a plane, what would be "out"? Is that the way I want to have any sort of image or texture to appear on? So say for the painted side or outside of bus I want them pointing out, but Inside the bus, I want them pointing out of any sturcture but Into the bus, (where said texture would be seen or rendered.)?

     

    The polygons are dissociated from each other. Welding them together will make flipping normals for your model much easier. Or... find another free bus model that will be less hassle to use.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134
    Vially said:

    No, seriously though, thanks, that's a big help AND another argument as to why this needs to be rebuilt. On that thought though, most of the bus body is actually just a plane, what would be "out"? Is that the way I want to have any sort of image or texture to appear on? So say for the painted side or outside of bus I want them pointing out, but Inside the bus, I want them pointing out of any sturcture but Into the bus, (where said texture would be seen or rendered.)?

     

    The polygons are dissociated from each other. Welding them together will make flipping normals for your model much easier. Or... find another free bus model that will be less hassle to use.

    Well, like I said, this is sort of my "Live" example to model from. I really do not expect much, if anything, to remain from the original. It was/is just the closest reference to what I had in mind, although I am sure there are lots more out there.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    To combine two objects that are physically separated... you can select the two parts, pressing shift,  then go to the Surface Modeling tab and choose Weld. 

    Max,

    I've been to your link, nice page, but where or how do I find the tutorials?

  • MaxHancockMaxHancock Posts: 187
    Vially said:

    To combine two objects that are physically separated... you can select the two parts, pressing shift,  then go to the Surface Modeling tab and choose Weld. 

    Max,

    I've been to your link, nice page, but where or how do I find the tutorials?

    Hey,  yeah, there's a button there that goes to the first video. But you'll find all my tutorials here: 

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nnNeTuSYrkAJ2HqshmVVw

    Note, I don't discuss using normals yet.  That's coming up with a different tutorial I'm preparing.  

     

     

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Thanks,

    Looking to make a conplex curve, (rail & support for the Bench Seat,) so hoping there are some pointers.

     

  • MaxHancockMaxHancock Posts: 187

    You can make tubes and rails by applying a thickness operation to a spline line.  I'll try to make a video on that soon. 

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134
    edited March 10

    You can make tubes and rails by applying a thickness operation to a spline line.  I'll try to make a video on that soon. 

    Did it with a Spline and bend, which worked really well once I figured out how to do it (another 25 minute tutorial laugh), However, will have to think about a spline & thickness as that might be a different angle answer worth looking at to cut down on Polys.

    That however is later, I have my top seat rail, and I have the seat frame, now I just need to put the two together, which brings me to my next question:

    Is there a way to line up 2 objects based on a vertex point or line?

    In Image 1, I am showing the geometry that I have, What I am wanting to do it attach it, (seamlessly hopefully) to the seat structure, which is the outside vertical cylinders in Image 1. What I am trying to avoid is it being "off" by the point not being exactly on one another when welded together. Image 2 is a reference to what I am trying to get as finished look.

    The Rails are octigons, so I could use an edge, or a point, but I want them to be exact so it doesn't wind up looking warped in renders.

    In the meantime I'm going to review the thich spline option as it may answer this question without even trying.

    Thanks,

    V

    P.S. added another reference view on seats.

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    Post edited by Vially on
  • Wee Dangerous JohnWee Dangerous John Posts: 1,183
    edited March 10

    Sorry Max, I was not doing anything so jumped in, hope you don't mind.

    Vially, here's one way you could try. Second question, the snap align tool (Ulilities Tab) is what you're looking for.

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    Post edited by Wee Dangerous John on
  • ViallyVially Posts: 134
    edited March 11

    Sorry Max, I was not doing anything so jumped in, hope you don't mind.

    Vially, here's one way you could try. Second question, the snap align tool (Ulilities Tab) is what you're looking for.

    Hi John,

    I hate you right now cheeky, That would have saved me a couple hours off this Bench Frame. (Getting things straight again, I made the tube, then bent, then adjusted to make the ends line up and etcetera, but taking it into Daz for a quick material apply and render to see how it looks and well, I am actually a bit happy with the work done.

    I saved off the information though as the Handrails and Luggage Rack will find that a very, very useful trick, (I wont hate you at that point. laugh)

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    Post edited by Vially on
  • MaxHancockMaxHancock Posts: 187

    Thanks for explaining that John! That image is really helpful.   Vially,  if one side of your spline is unique shaped,  then you can use the 2D symmetry tool to the other side.  Sorry, no time to show with visuals, but it's relatively simple to use.  Make one half, then choose the tool, and select the vertex point where you want the symmetry to start.  

  • ViallyVially Posts: 134

    Am finishing up this bench, still have the cusions to do, and back at work so after a 10-14hr day, we will see how much I get done.

    Next I think will be to move the Floor system to new geometry, mainly to see if there is room to add a bathroom to the bus or if I need to re-think this whole thing. (I.E. make the bus a hodge-podge of design concepts to "fit" the story.)

    The next would be the railing and luggage system, which the thick line I can see saving hours upon hours on. The question I would have there (and I'm gussing that playing with it a bit will answer some,) but how is it at following odd shapes, Know it can follow a box, or an O and L and C or even S shape, but what about an H or E, where potentially there are multiple branches to the same line?

  • Wee Dangerous JohnWee Dangerous John Posts: 1,183
    edited March 12

    Vially, what you might want to think about is making some plumming style joints/bends, so you can use them where needed.

    Edit - Not sure coz I have not tried it, but you may be able to do this by Box modelling (See Max's video to see how ?).

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    Post edited by Wee Dangerous John on
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