The future of Bryce?

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Comments

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 1,949
    edited December 1969

    I really wish that a new Bryce Pro would come out soon. I would pay $49.99 dollars for it if it was improve and user friendly.

    I'd easily drop USD $49.99 dollars (but not one cent more) on an simple update to Bryce that fixed the current issues and added one nice new feature.

    For a major new version that went the whole hog 64bit, I would happily pay $499.99 - and I'm not joking around.

    .

    Well, for the $499 price-point, you're starting to get into medium-serious Vue territory. Vue, which is used for movies such as Avatar, Pirates of the Carribean, and many more.

    If I was going to spend anything near $500, well now we're getting close to 50% of the cost of Vue Infinite. Why not just deliver pizzas for a few months and buy a license for Vue?

    But I'm with you. There is a place for Bryce (and Hex too!), as long as it's priced correctly within its level in the marketplace.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,316
    edited December 1969

    For a major new version that went the whole hog 64bit, I would happily pay $499.99 - and I'm not joking around.

    That's nearly what I had paid for Bryce 5.0 and I've never regretted it. Bryce is worth much more than the price tag DAZ 3D put on it.
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,132
    edited December 1969

    I really wish that a new Bryce Pro would come out soon. I would pay $49.99 dollars for it if it was improve and user friendly.

    I'd easily drop USD $49.99 dollars (but not one cent more) on an simple update to Bryce that fixed the current issues and added one nice new feature.

    For a major new version that went the whole hog 64bit, I would happily pay $499.99 - and I'm not joking around.

    .

    It would be worth it.

    A new feature... (the ability to handle subdivision surfaces) would help with human figures and keep the memory footprint down.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 1,949
    edited December 1969

    Current memory constraints would be irrelevant if Daz would just make Bryce 64-bit. Who doesn't have a 64-bit computer in this day and age? No, I correct that: who doesn't have a 64-bit computer who claims they are somewhat serious about 3-D content creation or artwork?

    Even serious hobbyists will now have 64-bit hardware and maybe even 8, 12, or 16 GB of memory to support their hobby!

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,316
    edited December 1969

    @Subtropic Pixel - Studio and Carrara are both 64 bit. Bryce was meant to go 64 bit for Bryce 7 and having been a beta tester, I purchased a 64-bit computer at the time to be able to test. Though Bryce didn't end up as 64 bit, I don't regret I went 64 bit.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,416
    edited December 1969

    My computer's only 3 bits.

    The keyboard bit, the mouse bit and the computery bit.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,754
    edited December 1969

    My computer's only 3 bits.

    The keyboard bit, the mouse bit and the computery bit.

    I beat you then I have 6 bits The keyboard bit, the mouse bit the computery bit and then there's the router bit, the speakers bit and the monitor bit.

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There is hope on the horizon for Bryce and maybe some other titles as well.

    First, there is news from OTOY that Octane 3 will be released later this year. The new version of Octane will feature Volumetrics and atmospheric models. There are lots of good things and new features. But there is one part that really jumped out at me.

    (http://home.otoy.com/otoy-unveils-octanerender-3-worlds-best-gpu-renderer/)

    If you follow the above link to page 49 of 57, you will see a banner describing that an Octane Render plug-in for Bryce and Hexagon are expected soon from 3rd party developers.

    http://www.slideshare.net/otoyinc/otoy-presentation-2015-nvidia-gpu-technology-conference-march-17-2015

    Here is a quick screen shot of the page.

    So, we really should not give up hope. Daz3D has not completely forgotten about Bryce, at least on some level they are still investing in Bryce.

    This is a HUGE deal. While I do like Iray, I like Octane much much more. Seems the new Octane 3 will also support OpenCL so those AMD cards and even CPUs can be used. No more Nvidia reliance. Very very exciting news. Smiling right about now!

    Octane_Bryce.jpg
    1500 x 861 - 59K
  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    That's very exciting, Rashad, but being old and cynical I can't help adding a

    "Hmmmmmm".

    I've asked a question here:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54066/

    Going to try and sleep now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfnhmuZ27eQ

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    Why not just deliver pizzas for a few months and buy a license for Vue?

    I've been considering buying a Lexus RX350 but on this logic I should save up and buy an ice cream van.

    Mind you...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEEU1nQeGNA

    .

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    That's very exciting, Rashad, but being old and cynical I can't help adding a

    "Hmmmmmm".

    I've asked a question here:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54066/

    Going to try and sleep now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfnhmuZ27eQ

    I'm extremely hesitant to post anything lately, as my best intentions seem to lead to hell. I post a personal opinion about he future of Bryce and it often gets taken as some sort of sage advice or hidden insight, when really, it's just conversation. I don't know anything more than anyone else here and am posting based on knowledge freely available on the internet.

    That said, I would not be surprised if my comments end up being removed for "speculation."

    But there are a couple of things about this that could be interesting to consider.

    For example, the Octane Plug-in for Carrara uses Carrara's ram to fit both programs. I have actually never tried Octane for Carrara with the 32bit version, but with the 64 bit version I can easily run at 11gb for a really really really huge scene being held in both applications at one time. Basically, whatever the ram usage had been previously, it will double once the plug-in is activated.

    Sooo, I would say that Octane for Bryce sounds fantastic but if it doesn't get 64bit along with it, then it will be of limited value

    Still, those volumetrics look incredible as do some of the other things. We might get better atmospheres and clouds from Octane. I'm really excited.

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    Why not just deliver pizzas for a few months and buy a license for Vue?

    If Octane Render for Bryce were to actually happen, Vue would be much less lucrative than it is now. Considering the volumetrics from Octane look as if they are superior to anything Vue has every done (aside from Ozone but that is a different story).

    Below is a link to some recent renders of landscapes I've made using Octane Render for Carrara based on Octane 2. I have taken my Volcanic Archipelago scenario and ported it over to Carrara so I could see how it all looks in Octane. It actually looks amazing in Octane. As of Octane 2 has no atmosphere so I suspect that when Octane3 comes out with volumetric abilities we are going to see landscapes that really do look like true photographs.

    Keep in mind this is also assuming that Bryce has the 64 bit support it needs to access the memory needed for the types of scenes you are seeing below.

    Trees and plants are modeled in ngPlant and Carrara though I used Bryce as an intermediate modeling tool for most of them.

    Just to poke fun at some of my own not so stellar work, here is an attempt made in Bryce to render this type of scene while using ambience glow from the leaves to replace the render expensive translucency. With so much geometry there were lots of deep shadows that translucency would have corrected so I cheated to save time. The result is a sort of "radioactive" vegetation instead of what it really should have looked like as evidenced by the Octane versions

    Also note that each of the Octane Renders you are seeing are fully unbiased. This means the translucency on the leaves is physically correct, as well as the shadows and the indirect lighting. Not only does it look amazing, but each of these renders was completed within around 1.5 hours. If I were to re-render the Bryce version using TA and translucency I'd be looking at a 5 day render. This is why Bryce needs a modern render engine to remain relevant.


    Bryce version for comparison
    http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=5646&mode=search

    Series 1
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/45564/P375/#773548

    Series 2
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/45564/P375/#773552

    Series 3
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/45564/P375/#773557

    Series 4
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/45564/P375/#773561

    Hansmar,

    I have yet to complete the ngPlant tutorial I promised ages ago. But I want to send you a few trees I've developed over time. Keep an eye out.

    Here is just one of the images linked to above to demonstrate how awesome Bryce landscapes could look if rendered in unbiased Octane.

    1.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • Bobeagle77Bobeagle77 Posts: 162
    edited December 1969

    I have a question which I ask a while back but never got a straight answer. Can I make a "terrain" from the default terrain in the main screen, edited and texture it. Then export it as an Object and MTL to Daz Studios. Is this object my property, (do I have the rights of ownership) or is it still Daz Studios property. I been wanting to become an artist seller for Daz Studios for a long time. One of my goals is to create a beautiful skydome or skybox with a small to medium terrain which would render in fast times. At the moment I have a set of lights I created in Daz Studios which renders very fast and can be use as Daz ambient light. Well if I don't own the Terrain. Maybe Daz Studios should make Bryce Pro 8 49.99 and selling point "Make your very own beautiful terrains, skybox, skydomes, etc and Best of all! Ownership of these 3D models belongs to you. Thank you in advance for your help.

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    I have a question which I ask a while back but never got a straight answer. Can I make a "terrain" from the default terrain in the main screen, edited and texture it. Then export it as an Object and MTL to Daz Studios. Is this object my property, (do I have the rights of ownership) or is it still Daz Studios property. I been wanting to become an artist seller for Daz Studios for a long time. One of my goals is to create a beautiful skydome or skybox with a small to medium terrain which would render in fast times. At the moment I have a set of lights I created in Daz Studios which renders very fast and can be use as Daz ambient light. Well if I don't own the Terrain. Maybe Daz Studios should make Bryce Pro 8 49.99 and selling point "Make your very own beautiful terrains, skybox, skydomes, etc and Best of all! Ownership of these 3D models belongs to you. Thank you in advance for your help.

    From what I understand the meshes would belong to you and you could distribute them for profit without concern. The issue is exporting them in a way that doesnt either crash Bryce or end up creating an object with too many polygons. But yes, Bryce generates terrains better than most other applications. Best of luck!

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    I guess Peter and I are the only ones who are curious about this? I was expecting this thread to be very active today after the recent development of a possible OctaneRender for Bryce plug-in. I was even hoping that someone from Daz3d might have provided some insight. Oh, well. Guess its just me.

  • HansmarHansmar Posts: 1,835
    edited December 1969


    Hansmar, I have yet to complete the ngPlant tutorial I promised ages ago. But I want to send you a few trees I've developed over time. Keep an eye out. Here is just one of the images linked to above to demonstrate how awesome Bryce landscapes could look if rendered in unbiased Octane.

    Rashad,
    Thanks for keeping the idea of the tutorial alive.
    The render looks really very very wonderful! I think I would be very interested in an Octane render in Bryce!
  • NimosNimos Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    I guess Peter and I are the only ones who are curious about this? I was expecting this thread to be very active today after the recent development of a possible OctaneRender for Bryce plug-in. I was even hoping that someone from Daz3d might have provided some insight. Oh, well. Guess its just me.


    Actually I did get super-excited until I quickly realized that Bryce is still stuck at 32 bits and the instancing tool has never been perfected. And it can't even deform a simple mesh. It's just really old and outdated.

    But I do have a question: Would this Octane Renderer be able to render all the Bryce textures within Bryce, including displacement? And would it be one of those expensive $800 plug-ins?

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    I guess Peter and I are the only ones who are curious about this? I was expecting this thread to be very active today after the recent development of a possible OctaneRender for Bryce plug-in. I was even hoping that someone from Daz3d might have provided some insight. Oh, well. Guess its just me.


    Actually I did get super-excited until I quickly realized that Bryce is still stuck at 32 bits and the instancing tool has never been perfected. And it can't even deform a simple mesh. It's just really old and outdated.

    But I do have a question: Would this Octane Renderer be able to render all the Bryce textures within Bryce, including displacement? And would it be one of those expensive $800 plug-ins?

    Version 3 of Octane is going to hit the ground like an earthquake if you ask me. Octane has for a long time been number 1 but the lack of atmospheres was really a downer. They're fixing that with version 3 so for my money, this is definitely the way to go.

    Octane standalone needs to be purchased as well as any plug-in. All together, the two applications might cost you around $500.00 If you also wanted more robust graphics cards, that would cost you as well. But I look at Octane as an investment in the future. Yes, Octane is future-proofing. CG rendering overall probably isn't going to get much better than it is today with unbiased capabilities, so any investment made in Octane is likely to return dividends over time.

    I would be more than willing to pay that. My love for Bryce long ago departed from logicville, I want it just because I want it with no real good reason. It's one of those shut and take my money type of things.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    I guess Peter and I are the only ones who are curious about this?

    I concluded that it's all gone quiet because everyone else is on the Bryce 8 beta team except for thee and me. And I'm not so sure about thee... ;-)

    More seriously, what isn't clear to me is what is meant by "3rd party developer". Is that DAZ, or just some bloke (Len?) saying, "can we do a Bryce plugin?"

    From 16:15
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHKmqWwEGxQ

    .

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    I guess Peter and I are the only ones who are curious about this?

    I concluded that it's all gone quiet because everyone else is on the Bryce 8 beta team except for thee and me. And I'm not so sure about thee... ;-)

    More seriously, what isn't clear to me is what is meant by "3rd party developer". Is that DAZ, or just some bloke (Len?) saying, "can we do a Bryce plugin?"

    From 16:15
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHKmqWwEGxQ

    .

    I am unaware of any beta. Last time Daz let the community know that there was something going on even before the committee was amassed. There could well be something going on, and if they chose not to include me this round I would be disappointed, I think I'd be very useful, but it's up to them. More Bryce matters more than anything else to me.

    Either way, I am very excited. I suspect that Daz3d might themselves be the third party developers, or maybe there is some other route not yet known. It might only be a flimsy tether at best but I still hold onto it.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,416
    edited March 2015

    Call me an old cynic but I tend not to get excited about promises Rashad... I'll get excited when it actually happens :-)

    And even then I'll have to find ways of keeping this old Mac laptop alive running it's old OS so I can play with the new toy.


    I did however go and finally have a look at Octane last night after I'd read your post... But at the moment, I've just bought a new iMac and I'm already looking at Cinema 4D which to me is complex and a lot to learn if it's going to replace Bryce for my commercial work. I've also just started a lot of work for one of my clients and part of the deal has been some investment in Adobe Creative Cloud so I'm also distracted by Premier and After Effects... I'm not sure my old brain can take learning yet another software on top of all that at the moment. :)

    Post edited by Dave Savage on
  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    Call me an old cynic but I tend not to get excited about promises Rashad... I'll get excited when it actually happens :-)

    And even then I'll have to find ways of keeping this old Mac laptop alive running it's old OS so I can play with the new toy.


    I did however go and finally have a look at Octane last night after I'd read your post... But at the moment, I've just bought a new iMac and I'm already looking at Cinema 4D which to me is complex and a lot to learn if it's going to replace Bryce for my commercial work. I've also just started a lot of work for one of my clients and part of the deal has been some investment in Adobe Creative Cloud so I'm also distracted by Premier and After Effects... I'm not sure my old brain can take learning yet another software on top of all that at the moment. :)

    Great! There's nothing to learn. I suspect that in less than a year you will likely be purchasing Octane. You'll probably end up purchasing the C4D plug-in, because you will not need to actually learn Octane if you go that way, all you need to know is Cinema4d and yet still get the benefits of Octane which are far superior to C4D native rendering.

    Personally, I am already using Octane on a daily basis and loving every second of it. I will be using Octane as my primary rendering engine for the foreseeable future. Being able to continue working in Bryce while rendering in Octane is the ideal dream for me, but I am more than prepared to accept that I may never be able to render in Bryce again for the kind of work I want to do.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    I concluded that it's all gone quiet because everyone else is on the Bryce 8 beta team except for thee and me. And I'm not so sure about thee... ;-)

    I am unaware of any beta.

    Crikey, Rashad, the beta comment was a joke. It may not have been very good, but I thought it was obvious.

    And sad to say, but no surprise, the excitement about the Bryce-Octane plugin was indeed misplaced. A DAZ bod has stated that we know as much as they do. In other words, it isn't DAZ - and since it can't be anyone else, it's mere vapour.

    Nothing to see here. Move along...

    .

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    By the way, the comment above about Len being the "developer" was also a joke. I'd noticed him campaigning for his anamorphic rendering passion* on the Octane forums and his name came to mind.


    * campaigning with some success, I might add. If he achieves his anamorphic "bokeh" in the virtual Octane realm, that'll relieve him permanently of having to settle on finally buying the ultimate camera.

    .

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,316
    edited December 1969

    @Peter - oh, Len still hasn't got his camera? Why am I not surprised? The Bryce Octane plug-in was a nice joke and seen as one right from the start - very amusing.

    @Rashad - nothing wrong with Octane, I started experimenting with it 2 years ago (demo version 1.1) to see whether I could make IBL work. I could in less than half an hour and Octane has got it right i.e. like Bryce.
    You're interest is in the photo-realistic and we know you're doing a great job in that department. A plugin for an unbiased render engine would be great for Bryce and photo-realism would hugely benefit from such a plugin. However, what makes Bryce stand out from the other 3D application is its versatility. Flawed as Bryce may be, it gives the artist the freedom to create just about every type of artwork.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    @Peter - oh, Len still hasn't got his camera? Why am I not surprised?

    I've no idea, Horo - but it's a pretty good guess. ;-)

    Haven't been in touch with Len since he and these forums parted ways.

    .

  • Electro-ElvisElectro-Elvis Posts: 644
    edited December 1969

    I am not a native english speaker and therefore I might sometimes miss the real meaning between the lines.

    Even at the rist being a simpleton, I must ask this: The Bryce plug-in in the Octane presentation was just a joke?

    I think, I already know the answer. I hope the otoy guys laughed about their joke more than me :-( (Yeah I know, sometimes I am a curmudgeon.)

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    @Peter - oh, Len still hasn't got his camera? Why am I not surprised? The Bryce Octane plug-in was a nice joke and seen as one right from the start - very amusing.

    @Rashad - nothing wrong with Octane, I started experimenting with it 2 years ago (demo version 1.1) to see whether I could make IBL work. I could in less than half an hour and Octane has got it right i.e. like Bryce.
    You're interest is in the photo-realistic and we know you're doing a great job in that department. A plugin for an unbiased render engine would be great for Bryce and photo-realism would hugely benefit from such a plugin. However, what makes Bryce stand out from the other 3D application is its versatility. Flawed as Bryce may be, it gives the artist the freedom to create just about every type of artwork.

    I knew it was a long shot. But it was too compelling to completely ignore.

    I agree, that Bryce stands out for its versatility. But simply standing out isn't going to keep Bryce alive. Bryce might benefit from standing out a little less and conforming a little more to the way things are being done in the industry at large.

    I tested a few days ago a scene that renders with fully unbiased PMC in Octane in about 1.5 hours with fully translucent leaves and all. I tried to render the same scene in Bryce with TA and translucent leaves and the prospective render time was over 3days. Yes, 3 days! That's almost half a week that I cannot do anything else with my computer if I don't want to make the render time even longer. Time spent waiting for scenes to complete hinders creativity on other projects in the meantime.

    This has everything to do with practicality in my opinion. I also think it irresponsible from an environmental perspective to continue consuming days worth of energy for tasks that might be completed in just a few hours with a properly modernized render engine. I don't want the only blue skies of tomorrow to be the ones captured in my old renders.

    I will also say, that aside from the tricks people employ ambience glow for, there are very few things an unbiased render will refuse to accept so to my mind here is very little loss in flexibility. From my experience everything about unbiased rendering is generally easier and more effective than all those sliders and other hacks offered in biased render engines. Materials are much easier to set up and the fast feedback on rendering helps you more efficiently reach your intended goals.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969


    Even at the rist being a simpleton, I must ask this: The Bryce plug-in in the Octane presentation was just a joke?

    It may have been a joke, but if so I don't think it was by the Octane crew. Perhaps one played on them.

    I can usually spot a joke and I'm not sure what Horo is referring to above. I thought maybe it was my Bryce 8 beta team effort but he did say "very amusing", so probably not.

    .

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,316
    edited December 1969

    I thought maybe it was my Bryce 8 beta team effort but he did say "very amusing", so probably not.

    Yup, Bryce 8 beta team was amusing. However, my optimism doesn't include the possibility of an Octane plugin for Bryce at this time.
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