The future of Bryce?

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  • KerynaKeryna Posts: 101
    edited December 1969

    Sadly I think Oroboros may be right. DAZ cannot make much money from Bryce, there is a lot of competition out there in terms of 3D and gaming / animation software.

    To me Bryce is a really amazing program and David and Horo have been hero's in revealing its depths to lessor mortals like me.

    I really hope that if DAZ ever do drop it, they release the code so that some smart minds (with free time and lots of independent financial support!) can perhaps re-program the algorithms and interface in a modern open source language and add and any needed modern functionality. Who knows.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,774
    edited December 1969

    keryna said:
    Sadly I think Oroboros may be right. DAZ cannot make much money from Bryce, there is a lot of competition out there in terms of 3D and gaming / animation software.

    To me Bryce is a really amazing program and David and Horo have been hero's in revealing its depths to lessor mortals like me.

    I really hope that if DAZ ever do drop it, they release the code so that some smart minds (with free time and lots of independent financial support!) can perhaps re-program the algorithms and interface in a modern open source language and add and any needed modern functionality. Who knows.

    Bryce make quite a lot of money from Bryce Users, if users Like Trish and I are typical. We buy a lot of Daz content,, just not Bryce specific content, and import it into Bryce for rendering, and I know there are a lot of others who are like us and use Daz models as well as Bryce native stuff.

  • edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    keryna said:
    Sadly I think Oroboros may be right. DAZ cannot make much money from Bryce, there is a lot of competition out there in terms of 3D and gaming / animation software.

    To me Bryce is a really amazing program and David and Horo have been hero's in revealing its depths to lessor mortals like me.

    I really hope that if DAZ ever do drop it, they release the code so that some smart minds (with free time and lots of independent financial support!) can perhaps re-program the algorithms and interface in a modern open source language and add and any needed modern functionality. Who knows.

    Bryce make quite a lot of money from Bryce Users, if users Like Trish and I are typical. We buy a lot of Daz content,, just not Bryce specific content, and import it into Bryce for rendering, and I know there are a lot of others who are like us and use Daz models as well as Bryce native stuff.
    Daz3d used to make more money off of Bryce user then they do today. I am confident that their lack of support of the product has done "wonders" to their marketshare. I know in my occasional grazing of the forums I see fewer posts and posters. Not 'dead' but if you strangle something long enough the end results would seem rather obvious. But that is all conjecture. What I can say for a fact is that I 'was' a good customer. I bought quite a bit over the many years I've been here. Whenever a patch/update to Bryce rolled around I'd buy something (anything) to show my appreciation. I suspect that some of the others had similar habits. It has been quite a while since I bought anything. I am voting with my wallet as that is ultimately the most effective way to get a companies attention. If they fail to produce what I really want then there are other options to getting the bits and pieces. I am not advocating anything. Nor do I wish to 'harm' Daz3d. It's more like I, and those like me, are not valuable enough as customers to matter.

    But I am still "Brycing". I have recently introduced my son (just turned 13) to Bryce. He and his friends are just amazed by it. What made it great back in the day is still there even if it is no longer competitive.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,331
    edited October 2013

    I agree Pam, nearly 43,000 files in over 6,800 folders occupying 16.3 GB just installed Studio stuff and I paid dearly for it.

    Post edited by Horo on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,774
    edited December 1969

    Yes, my first purchases at Daz were made before years before there were even any forums here. I would hate to add up my order history and work out how much it has cost me.

    My order histories at other stores are far, far less.

  • TrishTrish Posts: 2,625
    edited October 2013

    If the truth be known the only reason I buy so much stuff is because I am too lazy to make it myself or too broke or to unwilling to learn another 3d program....and I won't even guess how much I have dropped during the PC sale....(oh my) as someone on the art forum put it " So Trish you just use Daz as a closet for Bryce" and that is about the size of it ...Trish

    Just popped off a question to the powers that be about an update ....I have never asked them before...but as least I made the effort

    Post edited by Trish on
  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:

    Bryce make quite a lot of money from Bryce Users, if users Like Trish and I are typical. We buy a lot of Daz content,, just not Bryce specific content, and import it into Bryce for rendering, and I know there are a lot of others who are like us and use Daz models as well as Bryce native stuff.

    Not recognising this scenario is a frequent mistake made by companies with a wide product range, particularly when they get new management. Accountants with little understanding of the historical structure take a look at the apparent success of individual parts without considering the benefit from the interaction of the individual parts. So they kill off an apparently loss making line and then wonder why sales of their other lines drop off.

    Happens all the time with supermarket and department store chains, which is why there is a constant rise and fall in their fortunes.

  • OroborosOroboros Posts: 326
    edited October 2013

    I know I've said this before, but just from the few comments on this page I'm wondering:

    Given that DAZ's core business is in content/consumables, not applications... Is there any incentive to develop their apps?

    Let's face it, items from the DAZ store don't JUST work with DAZ apps. The figurines and clothing are Poser-friendly, and I'm sure other platforms can import models/items in the DAZ store. The only reason to upgrade an application would be to cater for a new technology in their consumables.

    Yet another reason to avoid development :-/

    Post edited by Oroboros on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,331
    edited December 1969

    DAZ 3D's core business IS content, at least that's what they say. Content can be exported out of DS and imported into almost any other application, the bridge to Bryce is just a convenience.

    Studio is being constantly developed. The main focus is on characters and they seem to have some advantage over Poser but there is also an add-on or something that allows to load the characters into Poser.

    Brycer's are potential customers and that might have been the rational behind the purchase of it from Corel: to get more customers. How much we contribute I have no idea but certainly not the bulk. If Brycers do make a difference, then developing Bryce makes sense. The question is whether DAZ 3D is aware for what application the content is purchased.

  • edited December 1969

    The last news is from 2013

    Is there going to be any Bryce 8? Or 7.2? Or it will not happen?

    Thanks

  • Eva1Eva1 Posts: 1,171
    edited March 2015

    This question is repeatedly asked...the fact is no-one knows if there will be any further Bryce development. DAZ has not said anywhere they are totally stopping development of the other softwares (Bryce, Cararra etc.). However it does appear that focus is on DAZ Studio as Horo correctly states.

    However.....with the release of DS 4.8 Beta, I'm now seriously wondering if this does mean the end for Bryce - I hate to say it and I have never taken that line before! I've always believed that until DAZ say they definitely won't then we just can't say if they will or not. I always felt the Bryce renderer to give superior results than DAZ Studio. With Iray now in DS though, I'm don't think Bryce can compete in that area. Also, I can imagine it won't be long before we start seeing the ability to create terrains in DAZ Studio (the team have said in the forums that there are more things to come...). If that does ever happen I don't see why DAZ would continue with Bryce without re-writing the software and adding features one couldn't get in DS to be more up-to-date.

    I love the new DS beta but......'tis maybe a sad time for Bryce.... [wipes a little tear away]

    Post edited by Eva1 on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,774
    edited December 1969

    AS Horo says we need to make sure that DAZ 3D know how much money Bryce users do actually spend on content at their store.

    Someone like me for example, who has been using Bryce as an alternate render engine for Poser since the late 1990s, as well as producing bryce type images as well.. It always makes me laugh in fact that I got scolded time after time for posting in the Poser forum on another site because I did not render in Poser. I was told, in no uncertain terms, to go and post in the Bryce forum.

    I have a Product Library here at DAZ 3D which goes back before 2000 and I would hate to actually total up how much I have spent on DAZ 3D content since then.

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,772
    edited March 2015

    Edit

    I think the time may have come for me to say goodbye to this whole business. I've got some thinking to do.

    Post edited by Rashad Carter on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,331
    edited December 1969

    @Eva1 - my thoughts exactly and there are other signs. However, what DAZ 3D hasn't realised yet is that Bryce is very versatile. No, Bryce can't beat Iray, a physical unbiased render engine is great for photo realistic renders, but is fine art really limited to just photo realism? DAZ 3D is perhaps a bit too focused on that.

  • Eva1Eva1 Posts: 1,171
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    @Eva1 - my thoughts exactly and there are other signs. However, what DAZ 3D hasn't realised yet is that Bryce is very versatile. No, Bryce can't beat Iray, a physical unbiased render engine is great for photo realistic renders, but is fine art really limited to just photo realism? DAZ 3D is perhaps a bit too focused on that.

    Oh yes I agree Horo - it's the end result you want and not necessarily the tools to get there that's important. From DAZ's point of view I can understand why they would go that route - of course because they make money on content, and with the renderer it makes it a serious contender against other high end 3D applications which cost lot of money to buy.

    A key factor is that DS is free - Bryce isn't - and with such a good renderer now I would imagine that might tempt some people into not even looking at Bryce unless they specifically are doing landscapes (but like you said Bryce is so versatile - it's not just for landscapes). And to be honest I think the new renderer is easier to get good lighting results quickly compared to Bryce, though others may disagree. But for new users with perhaps little previous experience with 3D applications I still think the Bryce interface is superior in terms of having less of a learning curve.

    What concerns me though is if DS eventually has landscape and tree/foliage generation capabilities then I imagine that could result in even a lower uptake in new users for Bryce. If that doesn't happen, then there's still a chance for Bryce, but a lot would still have to change in terms of promoting it - looking at the store under Software Programs you wouldn't even know it exists!

  • HoroHoro Posts: 7,331
    edited December 1969

    @Eva1 - yes, DAZ 3D doesn't go exactly out of their way to promote Bryce. There is still a light: Iray can do IBL since it's an unbiased renderer, like Octane can, and Octane renders IBL scenes as Bryce does (tested it quite a while ago). So once PAs start to use the shaders that work fine for Iray, those models could be used in Bryce under IBL without the bother to adapt them for Bryce. I've got to install DS 4.8 soon and do some testing.

  • Tim82Tim82 Posts: 798
    edited December 1969

    After reading this thread, it started to make me wonder! ...how much have i spent in the DAZ3D store to buy models! ....the answer $4800 :| ....lol ....and not one of those purchases was used/renderd in studio, as for a new version of bryce, and this is just my opinion...if there is a new version! WOW i will be stoked and grateful, but if not....i will still just continue to use 7.1 pro as it is with no complaints :)

  • NimosNimos Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Unless you're doing an indoor scene don't you need some sort of a landscape? You can't just have objects floating in midair. That's why Bryce was always such a good "final scene renderer". Which brings up the question: How do you render a scene in DS without a landscape? Did DS get a landscape generator while I was away? Years ago I tried rendering in 5 versions or DS, but got nowhere, and always returned to Bryce.

  • Eva1Eva1 Posts: 1,171
    edited December 1969

    Unless you're doing an indoor scene don't you need some sort of a landscape? You can't just have objects floating in midair. That's why Bryce was always such a good "final scene renderer". Which brings up the question: How do you render a scene in DS without a landscape? Did DS get a landscape generator while I was away? Years ago I tried rendering in 5 versions or DS, but got nowhere, and always returned to Bryce.

    It depends what you want to render in DS - there are a number of landscape props (e.g. http://www.daz3d.com/planet-x-1) and other scene props for outdoor renders - you only have to look at some of the the DS products to see them used in promos, or check out the gallery. But the difference between this and Bryce is they are props, and can't be generated like you can generated the equivalent in Bryce.

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 5,041
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    @Eva1 - yes, DAZ 3D doesn't go exactly out of their way to promote Bryce. There is still a light: Iray can do IBL since it's an unbiased renderer, like Octane can, and Octane renders IBL scenes as Bryce does (tested it quite a while ago). So once PAs start to use the shaders that work fine for Iray, those models could be used in Bryce under IBL without the bother to adapt them for Bryce. I've got to install DS 4.8 soon and do some testing.

    I use both Studio and Bryce, but I wouldn't have bought half the stuff from DAZ if I hadn't had Bryce. If DAZ don't upgrade Bryce then they will potentially lose shoppers from the store. If they can afford to lose that user, and future,user, base then they wont spend money on it. As Studio is free they rely on the sales from the store for income so unless people are buying Studio they will start to lose money. Upgrade Bryce and the user base rises and therefore more shoppers for the store.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,416
    edited December 1969

    I really hope that DAZ don't think that if they stop development of Bryce, we'll all start using DAZ Studio... That's not going to happen here.
    I really appreciate what DAZ have done for Bryce and the last development of it moved it so far forward with excellent new features. But I'm not and never have been a fan of DAZ Studio. My only dealings with them are as a direct result of their purchase of Bryce.

  • Yellow PenYellow Pen Posts: 499
    edited March 2015

    my Product Library here has 25 sides; I 've bought the most for Poser (I have not understood the using of the Daz studio, therefore, Poser). . . , however, it would never have become so much if I could not use everything also in Bryce. And, I know I'm not the only one which thinks and acts so. I have spent a lot of money here, for Poser and Bryce, even if I do not use the DAZ Studio.

    My programme No. 1 was in the past and is now Bryce, and it will be this also in future. Whatever will happen.

    Post edited by Yellow Pen on
  • sasa Posts: 45
    edited December 1969

    Where and when did the .BR7 file extension appear ? And the Bryce Installer come from ?
    These can be found on products by Artists : David Brinnen and Horo

    Quote by Horo ( or pretty darn close ) ' The last Bryce supporters at DAZ3D HQ left about a year ago. '
    Where they responsible for ' .BR7 ' and Bryce Installer appearing ?

    Purchasing as much Bryce Content as I can get is my attempt to make a positive impact and support these Artists' Products and the amount of mind numbing work they put into their products ... :coolhmm:

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,774
    edited December 1969

    .br7 means that it is a Bryce scene file, which you can just open in Bryce 7

  • sasa Posts: 45
    edited December 1969

    chohole : Agreed . .br7 Scene Files are proprietary to Bryce 7.1 Pro , in and of itself , is indicative of something being ' added to ' not subtracted from .
    Granted , its not 64-bit ( which needs OpenGL to render ) ,

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,416
    edited December 1969

    As far as I know, Bryce has always had file extensions reflecting the version of Bryce the scene file was created in.
    I think the Bryce installer was more to do with DAZs Downloading software (is it DEM? I've never taken much notice of it).
    We tend not to use it though as it was developed with Runtime folders in mind and Bryce confuses it because it doesn't have a Runtime folder.

  • Bobeagle77Bobeagle77 Posts: 162
    edited December 1969

    I really wish that a new Bryce Pro would come out soon. I would pay $49.99 dollars for it if it was improve and user friendly. It should be easy to use as Daz Studios, and also have that complex advance part for people who like to dive in into more parameters and tool options. As a person who likes to make renders of scenes, stories,short comics,landscape,pinups and etc. I don't want to have five different programs to make a render possible. I want to use Bryce Pro for creating my own landscaping image, Daz Studios to make the main scene's render and paint-shop or gimp for touch-ups or post-work. I really don't like having complicated programs which take years to learn. Make stuff universal extension. Here are my 2 cents, hope this helps, this are my opinions.

  • NimosNimos Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    I really wish that a new Bryce Pro would come out soon..........


    Yup, I know what you mean.

    Just imagine how great it would be if the full functionality of DazStudio were rolled into Bryce, with full 64-bit support and a modern renderer, while keeping the general look and feel of the Bryce user interface.

    Of course everytime I bring that up a hundred people jump out and say it's impossible and give a hundred reasons why it's impossible and could never happen in a thousand years, because upgrading Bryce is far more difficult than colonizing a planet 50 light years from Earth.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 1,950
    edited December 1969

    I really wish that a new Bryce Pro would come out soon..........


    Yup, I know what you mean.

    Just imagine how great it would be if the full functionality of DazStudio were rolled into Bryce, with full 64-bit support and a modern renderer, while keeping the general look and feel of the Bryce user interface.

    Of course everytime I bring that up a hundred people jump out and say it's impossible and give a hundred reasons why it's impossible and could never happen in a thousand years, because upgrading Bryce is far more difficult than colonizing a planet 50 light years from Earth.

    Of course it's possible.

    But it might not make a good product being PART OF DAZ Studio. But I'd be okay with an upgrade, although now I'm convinced that DAZ is done with Bryce and Hex. That's too bad. I too would pay.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    edited December 1969

    I really wish that a new Bryce Pro would come out soon. I would pay $49.99 dollars for it if it was improve and user friendly.

    I'd easily drop USD $49.99 dollars (but not one cent more) on an simple update to Bryce that fixed the current issues and added one nice new feature.

    For a major new version that went the whole hog 64bit, I would happily pay $499.99 - and I'm not joking around.

    .

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