DA Big Ocean needs instructions.

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232

    Another distinction to keep in mind is that a Shader can be applied to any selected Surface. Materials include the names of Surfaces, which must match with the names of Surfaces on the object you want to apply the Material to. In short, Shaders are universal general-purpose, Materials are made for specific objects.

    This is why clicking on a clothes Material when you have the Genesis figure selected (or vice versa) doesn't work; the Surfaces names don't match. Been there, done that.

  • edparkedpark Posts: 8

    @SpottedKitty - thanks for clarifying the distinction. Definitely a beginner gotcha yes

  • edpark said:

    Hi Razor42, I see where I went wrong now; I was so used to other products where you select the object you want to affect in the Scene Explorer and then double clicking on a Shader makes the change.

    Sorry you have to keep repeating yourself!

    No problem, glad you have it working. :)

  • Rev2019Rev2019 Posts: 167

    how do i fix this?

    as soon you have objects in the scene the decal will go through them.

    it does not happend at all angles

     

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  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 1

    Hi Rev2019, Thanks for the message.

    It's hard to say from the pic exactly what's happening here. I did a few experiments and was unable to recreate the problem. It's possible that some kind of camera clipping is ocurring, if this is only visible at certain angles. It could also be some kind of shader anomaly between the boat and the water. Or it could be that a shader intended for the decal was applied to main ocean surface. Something strange is going on but it is hard to say exactly what if I cannot at least partly recreate the issue.

    A few questions, if you don't mind, may help pinpoint whats going on here.

    Is it possible you have applied a decal material to the sea plane prop? Does this happen with other props other than the boat? With different presets on the DA Big Ocean? Does this occur with the default load of DA Big Ocean? Is the boat mainly positioned above the Ocean plane? Is this the view from a camera or from the perspective viewpoint?

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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 1

    Thought I would share a few of the test renders while looking into this. Still love playing around with this one.

    Test Renders01.jpg
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    Test Renders02.jpg
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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Rev2019Rev2019 Posts: 167

    Thanks but i found the problem

    its "Caustic Sampler" in the renderering settings that makes this happend.

    i guess you dont use it right?

  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 8

    Okay after a bit more research I found a few possible "glitches" with the caustic sampler and render settings that may cause issues. And also a few things that may be helpful if this is what your experiencing.

    The one I suspect relates to the HDR Dome scale/Dome radius. Adjusting the settings for the decal mapping system and clip settings or by adjusting the dome scale and dome radius seems to help.

    EDIT:Looks like the clipping settings do not actually correct the issue, I'll keep digging.

    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 8

    You're right Rev2019 Caustics do seem to be the source of the issue. It appears that this issue may be related to the oppacity map on the decal as turning it on or off seems to remove the show through. The issue also is sporadic based on the camera proximity to the object and the angle as you mentioned. I tried resaving the oppacity map in a number of different formats, none seemed to help.

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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 2

    Okay, the best I can suggest is to disable the opacity map on the decal if you encounter this and it's not possible for you to work around with the lighting settings or camera position. The refraction weight does most of the heavy lifting hiding parts of the decal anyways. In the majority of cases the caustics work correctly with the decal, but there does seem to be some kind of issue between the caustics settings and the decal transparency maps which is obvious in specific situations. Feel free to ask Daz what the issue is and if they have any specific suggestions to correct it and I will be happy to implement whatever they suggest as an update for DA Big Ocean, but I suspect this unfortunately may just be one of those quirks that need to be worked around. 

    The image below is all default settings and is unaffected by the issue.

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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,400

    This thread is helpful!

    And now my rant: I ran in to a problem using the DA Big Ocean render settings with an UltraScenery island scene. The render settings presets in DA Big Ocean changed my Instancing Optimization setting to "Speed". That is death to any scene with a lot of instances. Daz Studio crashed over and over until I finally discovered what the render presets had done. The render presets in DA Big Ocean seem to change a lot of settings unnecessarily. I can understand changing the Sun-Sky Settings, and Tone Mapping, but changing my filter settings, optimization settings, render time, converged ratio, render samples, etc. is very annoying to me. When render settings are saved, it is possible to select to save only certain parameters. I wish the DA Big Ocean render presets had been more selective in what they included so they didn't overwrite everything. I have now edited the render settings presets to remove some of that stuff so this doesn't happen to me again.

    I do like the product, though. This is one of my UltraScenery scenes with DA Big Ocean, after changing Instancing Optimization back to Memory.

     

  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 8

    Hi Barbult, 

    Thanks for the feedback. Firstly sorry about the issues you had with the presets, I do agree that the render presets are pretty dominant in a scene and most of settings you mentioned go well beyond the scope of what a preset like this should change. And now, I few years on from this set, I would definitely do these render presets differently. It’s bit of a fine line as to what to include and what to leave out with presets like this as an inexperienced user may change some settings while experimenting with a scene and then not understand why the presets do not work as they appear on the box. Unfortunately sometimes decisions made to make things easier for a new user can just be plain frustrating to someone who is a bit more experienced. Thanks for letting me know your experience though, I will definetly take your suggestions on board when creating future render presets.

     

    Nice work with the shipwrecked render also, the ocean looks great and you really captured the sense of isolation. I’m not quite sure if that ship on the horizon is a glimmer of hope or the source of his troubles.

    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,400

    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:

    Hi Barbult, 

    Thanks for the feedback. Firstly sorry about the issues you had with the presets, I do agree that the render presets are pretty dominant in a scene and most of settings you mentioned go well beyond the scope of what a preset like this should change. And now, I few years on from this set, I would definitely do these render presets differently. It’s bit of a fine line as to what to include and what to leave out with presets like this as an inexperienced user may change some settings while experimenting with a scene and then not understand why the presets do not work as they appear on the box. Unfortunately sometimes decisions made to make things easier for a new user can just be plain frustrating to someone who is a bit more experienced. Thanks for letting me know your experience though, I will definetly take your suggestions on board when creating future render presets.

     

    Nice work with the shipwrecked render also, the ocean looks great and you really captured the sense of isolation. I’m not quite sure if that ship on the horizon is a glimmer of hope or the source of his troubles.

    Thanks for your reply! Live and Learn, right? I do like your products. I've had this one for a long time, but I never knew how to use it properly until I found this thread.
    Like some other people, I also had problems with the preset for sunset bloom which turned on the caustics. I finally had to turn caustics off to get it to render. Maybe an Iray bug? I'm using DS 4.15.0.14 Public Beta.

  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 8

    Yeah, I had a bit of a look into it and found it hard to pin down exactly what is going on but it appears to be some kind of glitch relatied to caustics and the transmap settings on the decal. 0% and 100% seem fine, but anything in between causes a strange bleed through effect on prop items as in the image below. Though I am not sure this is the same as what you are describing, I will need to download the pulbic beta and have a look, as I mainly came across the issue when using HDR lighting and multiple scene lights such as the camera light and a distant light.

    Were you having issues rendering the scene at all with caustics and the sunset bloom preset?

     

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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 8

    Here is a clearer example.

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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,400

    Yesterday when I used the sunsetbloom with caustic sampler on, it would start, but never finish a render. It seemed like it just got stuck. Once I left it nearly 9 hours overnight, and it didn't progress. I couldn't even cancel and had to kill Daz Studio. After turning caustic sampler off, it worked OK. But, it is possible that this was partly related to the Instancing Optimization or something. Maybe after all the Daz Studio crashes, my computer was in a bad state.Or maybe it was some specific combination of plane and decal settings that I was trying. I am trying it again now with a different scene, after having rebooted my computer a couple times, and with Instancing Optimization set to Memory. It is working OK. I am just using the Sun-Sky setting of the render preset. I haven't added any other lights.

    Does the caustic setting really add anything to Big Ocean renders? I can't see any difference between my render with it on or off. I attached both renders. Do I have to add bright scene lights to have it do something? I never use the camera headlamp.

     

    sunsetbloom with caustic on.jpg
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    sunsetbloom with caustic off.jpg
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  • Oh okay, thanks for checking it out and letting me know. A bit more looking and the bleed through issue is present in the Sun and sky Sunset bloom preset also. Scene lights seem to make it more obvious but you can see it with any lighting to varying degrees as long as caustics are on. 

    Caustics are a pretty specific case and may help with a little bit of realism in certain cases. You can see the caustics a few posts up on the crate, but they do take a very specific set of lighting conditions to see and in most cases caustics are better left off.

  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,185
    edited August 8

    Here is another test scene I was working with, I expected to see quite of a lot of effect from the caustics with this one. But to be honest I can barely see any. Guess there is something not specific enough with the lighting to either trigger the glitch or any real effect from the caustics.

    Caustics.jpg
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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • blazblaz Posts: 244
    edited August 8
    Could this bug be related to the opacity bug that is affecting the latest Sudio builds? There are issues with transmapped hair products that have Thin Walled set to Off. I also noticed issues with SunSky fog and props ("billboard" trees) that use opacity maps.
    Post edited by blaz on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 17,400

    Thanks for the caustics tests and demos. I think I'll leave it off - for now at least.

    I bet blaz is on to something. If you have an older version of Daz Studio to try, like 4.12, you could see if it behaves differently.

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