FIX THE PELVIC DISTORTIONS - SOLVED -
Dax Avalange
Posts: 340
Hey Richard. What about pelvic distortions? When I load any FBM, mine or third parts on G3 or G8 they get a pelvic/thigh distortion when dial at side side 85% of bending, and seems the height changes a bit getting the artefact as you see in the pics. I saved over or deleted some base functions while saving? How to fix it?
Thanks
1.JPG
1086 x 935 - 74K
2.JPG
1034 x 921 - 69K
Post edited by Dax Avalange on
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Is that happening with the base shape? And is it new with that pose? Check what is listed in the parameters pane under Currently Used with just the pose applied.
Well, it happening with any morph. The base shape G3F seems ok when dial 0, Distortion start when dial go to 100 of the morph. At the same time you a lil change of the height. I do my FBM in the standard way, I made more than 50 characters for sale. If you remember when we'll fixed the JCM corrective for Reiko catsuit you can see in the pics that side side legs bend at 85% is good. It happens with all bend front or side pose. Strange effect, I'm stubbor and I would have noticed the defect, since that happening with Daz shapes too. This is the reason about my question "I saved or deleted some important parameters of the bones align?" Anyway I'm going to look for what the Current Used panel says and I let you know.
So it's OK posed in the base shape but distorts when any morph is added? And this is a fitted item, not the base figure itself?
Well, I do see soem distortion bending the thigh to the side and applying a motley selection of morphs that affect that area - how much varies by the morph. I'm surprised it's as obvious as it is in the oens I tried, but it does seem to be a limitation (and that is a pretty extreme pose). It could no doubt be fixed witha JCM, but getting iot to the pont where mutliple morphs (and their JCMs) all stacked cleanly would be very tricky.
Have you tried compensation morphs like https://www.daz3d.com/ultimate-natural-bend-morphs-for-victoria-8 ?
or https://www.daz3d.com/bend-control-bundle-for-genesis-8-female-s-and-male-s
Eaxctly Richard. You say seems a limit of extreme pose and I say the same thing! Me too I thought to a JCMC and I did a fast try before act. It work but need to go back at zero position when dial is zero. I shifted Jenny from G3F to G3F so I know better the JCM so I can see what happen making a corrective JCM. I let you know.
BeeMKay thank you this is a good solution. Point is that I can't use it cause I'm a new vendor and I prefer to solve the artefact without any third parts products. Professional deformation. Customers could ask why DS ask for a product that they doesn't have. Actually I will follow Richard steps to see to fix that bug modelling some JCMC.
Hey Richard! I discovered a curious fact around the G3F morphs. Listen here,
I create my FBM in ZBrush, then I export and I load it via Morph Loader Pro. After that adjust rigging to shape if needed, ERC freeze and blabla.
After modified the hip and thigh (in the right human range obviously), can you explain me why the hell the legs mesh move out????????
Why after load via MLP it shorten a lil bit arms and legs? I'm not so idiot to shorten them deliberately.
The absurd is that is for long time I create my characters for sale and everybody find them faultless.
As you told before, using multiple JCM corrective would be very tricky. This is right cause I tried but one JCM pulls the other like never ending story.
My question again, is it a normal fault from DAZ or there's something in the morph system that's broken and need something like a new release of DS fixed?
This bug make me crazy!
I'm not sure why that would happen - how big a change is this? A mnor one might be rounding, or it might be an effect of smoothing as you divide in ZBrush (if you do) and then setting the resolution back to base - this had a very severe effect on teh teeth in Genesis and Genesis 2.
None of them Richard.I send G2F or G3F or G8F (both most of all) to ZBrush via Goz or export FBM then load in ZBrush, and I don't use any tools in ZBrush right to avoid teeth breaking (also if when I import the mesh I find round theet and I need to correct). The change is big enough to ask if is a bug from DS or something saved/modified by wrong. Why I say this? Because I see that happen using Daz body morphs also, above all the morphs that change the height! If I change height the bug appear. About this I would like to ask a question to all the ppl that read this post and fits into the speech,
To the artists out there, I try to ask a simple, fast and easy to understand question on the ground; the legs side side distortion Is a bug that only happens at my Daz Studio or all of you? I think it's an easy question uh? Thanks.
Can you give an exact recipe for triggering the effect please.
Hey Richard! Well ... Solved! I made a JCM correctivefor both legs and bug disappear! And I have had a confirm that bug is not in my DS but ALL the DS, cause my friend Promo Artist for Daz sent me a pic result of my same identical experiment. DS have a GREAT bug that didn't they have fixed also in 4.11 cause she told me have that release.
Good your idea to make corrective JCM Richard! Again one more success from us! Lol!
This is the pic of my Edna fixed ready to sell.
Hey Richard! Everything works great! I modelled the JCM corrective and loaded via Morph Loader Pro into the left leg, then change name of the JCM from ...85-L to ...85_R then Mirror Swap X and it is on the right leg. Works well! The complex step is done! Now ... the easy step! When I save as Morph Asset the FBM including the legs JCM corrective I less my JCMc like never saved! There's nnothing inside the EERC Freeze of the FBM when is zeroed pose, while when legs up I find ZRotate (side side) that maybe are the base corrective from Daz. Probably I forget something while saving! What?
One more thing; the JCM corrective act on the FBM right? So, when I dial to 0 the FBM and back to G3F I see a trace of the corrective. How to back at zero both figure G3F and JCM corrective?
When you use ERC Freze, if you do, there's an Attenuate By option - set the cotnrooler to the morph and the attenuator to the bend or vice versa (using the morph shoudl make everything save with the morph) and the correction will kick in only for the bend and the morph together.
Ok Richard! Great! Follow your steps and i let you know!
Note: ERC Freeze I use only after rigged to shape and when fixe teeth and before to save the morph. So no need after this step right?
It's not the only way to get there -you can also put the link manually in teh 2nd Stage (Multiply) section in the Hierarchy Editor to achieve the same result (because multiplying by 0 gives a zero value for the morph).
Do you mean the legs JCM corrective?
Forgot a note. The JCM corrective has the same name of the JCM of the leg obviously. So, in the Hierarchy Property or any other lists, how can I see what is mine corrective?
I'm not sure what you have now. I thought this was a moph which needed its own JCM for certain bends, so you wanted the JCM triggered only when both morph and bend were applied.
Simple, just a JCM corrective to fix the the legs deformations when bent at 85% side side, and in effect it works. I made a corrector for the legs and I loaded via MLP in my Edna FBM and it works like a Swiss clock. The only thing to solve is how to back at zero legs pose kicking out the JCM corrective, seen that I can see a trace of it when the base G3F bend at 85% the legs. That's all.
if the bend is zero a JCM will (should) be zero, unless a constant was added to the formula
There is an easier way to create the ERC link for the JCM instead of using ERC-Freeze. Did you watch my second video in the other thread? It showed how I drag and drop Properties from the Parameters pane into the Property Hierarchy pane.
Here are the instructions how I would accomplish the JCM relationship.
1. zero figure, memorize figure, select all memorize all including items
2. pose figure leg Left Thigh Property ZRotate (side side) = 85 joint rotation value
4. right-click the Parameters pane and set it to Edit-Mode
5. select the Left Thigh, right-click Property ZRotate (side side) choose Show in Property Hierarchy, now it will show up there in the pane
6. in Parameters pane navigate to your JCM for the Left Leg, select it
7. click and hold the front of the JCM with the big M and drag it across to the Property Hierarchy, drop it into the Left Thigh Property ZRotate (side side) > SubComponents > 1st Stage (Add/Substract)
8. Now the JCM is linked to the Left Thigh Z rotation Side-Side, Properties that you drag&drop into the Property Hierarchy 1st Stage (Add/Substract) automaticly gets a Scalar Value of 1 and are set to Add.
9. Next select your JCM in the Parameters pane, right-click the JCM Property choose Show in Property Hierarchy, now it will show up there in the pane
10. select your character morph in the Parameters pane and drag&drop it over to the Property Hierarchy into the JCM Property Controllers > 2nd Stage (Multiply/Divide), by default it is set to Multiply
Now the JCM should only turn up if you have your character morph dialed up, because the character morph value multiplies the JCM as a controller, also the joint rotation ZRotate have to be some value other than zero to Add the joint rotation value to the JCM. This is how I would do it there may be other ways. The thing is you have to take care about how the JCM morph gets saved. Maybe make the Left Thigh Property ZRotate (side side) the controller of your Left Thigh ZRotate JCM morph instead. Also make the JCM limits 0 to 100 / 0 to 1 if percentage is set off, so it dosn't get dialed to a negative value.
Exactly Richard! Infact this happens. Legs bend with corrective annd it work, legs zeroed corrective zeroed. Up to here everything works perfectly. While if I load a fresh G3F base and I bend legs at 85% I see a trace of the corrective like if not completely zeroed. Here I show you my workflow to load the FBM and corrective.
1 - Load fresh G3F base character
2- load my FBM via MLP
3- in MLP no settings modify and click OK. FBM loaded.
4 - Adjust rigging to shape
5 - fix teeth error
6 - ERC Freeze
7 - save morph asset
Character working perfectly
- Step 2 - Legs bend distortion at 85% side side
1 - Bend the legs one per each, start with L leg, of the Edna FBM.
2- Load via MLP the "pJCMThighSide_85_L.OBJ" JCM corrective I made.
3- In MLP I use thtese settings :
Name: pJCMThighSide_85_L.OBJ
Property Group: Morphs/Morph Loader
Create Control Property : Yes
Reverse Deformations : Yes
(Submenu) Preserve Existing Deltas : Yes
Overwrite Existing : Deltas Only
ACCEPT - Corrective works very well.
Repeat procedure for Right Thigh using the same "pJCMThighSide_85_L.OBJ" changing L with R, then MLP option Morph Mirroring : X : Swap
JCM corrective works amazing.
What I want to solve? Simply back to zero the corrective when FBM back to zero.
What happen if not? When the fresh base character bend the legs at 85% I see part of the JMC corrective cause not zeroed.
Syrus Dante I'm going to try your steps, if they are useful for what I want to solve, zeroed any corrective in my FBM when I load a fresh G3F base character and I bend legs to 85% side side.
In few words no trace of Toned Edna JCM when G3F is loaded and bent legs at 85% side side.
Syrus Dante I'm going to follow your guide and I see they are interesing.A question, the instructions you posted here are for G2F or G3F seen that in the previous thread I talk about G2F. My interest is in G3F actually. In case they are for G2F can you kindly write the same guide for G3F also? Thanks my friend and sorry if I'm so finicky, is professional deformaton. Anyway these instructions I like, seems really interesting.
It dosn't matter if the instructions are written for G2F or G3F the ERC thing and the methods of working with the Parameters pane and the Hierarchy pane apply to all genesis figure generations and gender, well it is not even limited to use it only on genesis figures.
[Edit]: You can zero everything - if you don't use the ERC-Freeze there is no need to dial anything up to setup the ERCs with the drag&drop method I want to explain. However if you don't use ERC-Freeze it dosn't matter if anything is zeroed or not - my instruction step 1 is obsolete - sorry for the confusion.
Don't worry I see great potential in what you are doing and I think you are on the right way, it just needs a little more understanding how things work in DazStudio.
I'm interested in all this [ERC] Enhanced Remote Controller technic to understand it better Enhanced Remote Control (ERC) - Documentation Center - Daz 3D
The very first question that I asked here in the forum was about ERC-Freeze and ERC-Bake. See here ERC-Freeze / Property Hierarchy / merge property Sub-Components
Thanks again Richard for your answer. As I figured out how this works I came back to my thread and wrote down what I had discovered. Since this was I think till then nowhere else explained before it even got copied by RKane_1 to his thread to collect this knowledge see here: TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis series Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4.10 by RKane_1 Yeah I'm proud of that my writings got copied and I could give some contribution to the forum.
Years later I still didn't figure out all what is possible with those ERCs but I like to share my knowledge that I earned by experience with others here in the forum so that we can learn from eachother. Also by explaning things I get a better understanding of those things myself.
This behaviour clearly shows that something is linked wrong in the Property Hirarchy pane. I actualy can tell that you have linked your JCM pJCMThighSide_85_L to 1st Stage (Add/Substract) in the Toned Edna FBM.
First you would need a character controller also called master controller (Poser speak), if you don't already have one right-click the Parameters pane choose Edit-Mode, right-click again and choose Create New Property, name it Ctrl_TonedEdna for example. Now right-click on Ctrl_TonedEdna and choose Show in Property Hierarchy. Next you can drag and drop your Toned Edna FBM morph from the Parameters pane into the Ctrl_TonedEdna > SubComponents > 1st Stage (Add/Substract).
You can add more morphs to this 1st Stage Add for example if you splitt the body and the head morph, both morph sliders FBM (FullBodyMorph) and FHM (FullHeadMorph) gets combined in there also you can add the Full Body Scale if you like to have a different body scale.
This is how other Daz original characters are setup they have a character controller slider in the Actor > People property group. Now if you turn up the slider Ctrl_TonedEdna all morphs like Toned Edna FBM will follow and get the same value, this is the way the Add works it will Add the value of the controller to the SubComponents.
The next thing to do is you link all JCMs you create as correctives for your character morph to the FBM by drag and drop them to Toned Edna FBM > 2nd Stage (Mulitply/Divide). With this the value of the FBM will multiply the value of the JCMs. Or to explain it simple with this the JCMs will only be activated if the FBM is set to a positive value. Also with no joint rotations the JCMs still have a value of zero thus multiply by zero equals zero so the JCMs don't change the value by dialing up the FBM. Finaly link the JCMs to the asocciated joint rotation properties pJCMThighSide_85_L goes to ZRotate (Side-Side) > SubComponent > 1st Stage (Add/Substract).
You see DazStudio just does simple math with the slider values to control the dependencies between them. BTW even we can show the slider value as percentage, internaly DazStudio calculates with floating point values so 100% is a value of 1, 50% is a value of 0.5 and so on.
Well in the video I was talking about DazStudio G2F BasicWear 02 BeautyBend I am setting up a controller property called CTRL_ERC_BBHelper_Shoulders-ON to controll the amount of the JCMs on the figures shoulders - you can see it in the video at 3:00. The downside of how I did this is the controllers have to be dialed up to have the JCMs activated. If I now zero the figure those are zeroed as well. What I would like to have is a controller that turns down the JCMs if needed. I thought Divide would get me there but as I tried it didn't work. I guess I will have to do more research on this.
I hope this post helps you and others to resolve the issues with setting up the ERCs and JCMs. Good luck with your work on the character and your career as an artist.
Thank you, what you write about the function of JCMs is fascinating, and sure I will explore with calm, but, incredible to believe I know, my brain run faster more than me, why? It's a long story. So I need to achieve faster than my brain to the solution. Then, I'm trying your guide and is ok, but there's some point that seems little clear, points are the follow:
"9. Next select your JCM in the Parameters pane, right-click the JCM Property choose Show in Property Hierarchy, now it will show up there in the pane". In the first 8 points talk about the base figure, so, if starting from point 1 to point 9 the procedure is for the G3F base, how can I select my JCM? The JCM is the "pJCMThighSide_85_L" corrective that I modelled for the Toned Edna Full Body Morph. And, based on what I read in your guide in the point 9 you say to select the JCM. That JCM is the corrective for the FBM? I understand right? Or I need to load the JCM corrective in the Full Body Morph before to save the Morph Asset?
"6. in Parameters pane navigate to your JCM for the Left Leg, select it". Which one? Mine, it means the "pJCMThighSide_85_L" corrective for Toned Edna FBM? Cause if yes going back to the question above.
"7. click and hold the front of the JCM with the big M and drag it across to the Property Hierarchy, drop it into the Left Thigh Property ZRotate (side side) > SubComponents > 1st Stage (Add/Substract)", here we're talking about the JCM. Corrective or base? Up to point 8 JCM is base and in the point 9 is mine corrective?
Some lights in these points woud be appreciate.
Your guide is really interesting and I'm curious to see what happen. I want to read your post above also. i see interesting things. Thanks to share here!
Meanwhile going ahead with the guide!
And here, some pics to explain better than words what I want to achieve.
1 - I made the Toned Edna full body morph character (pic1) and JCM corrective named "pJCMThighSide_85_L" (same name of the base JCM obviously) because there, I want to fix the bug of deformation from Daz (I do not want my products look like Frankenstein). See the arrow. They work perfectly.
2 - When I dial zero the Toned Edna FBM to back G3F base like pic 2 you can see the arrow point at the JCM corrective not completely kicked out.
3 - Goal is back to zero like pic 3, where the arrow point to standard leg of the base character G3F.
Well, this I want to get.
Sorry for the confusion where I wrote "your JCM" I always meant your corrective morph pJCMThighSide_85_L for example.
If you read FBM I always refer to your Toned Edna FBM.
But I see this complicated subject demands for another video tutorial. Let me see if I find the time on sunday, well by looking at the clock I see we already have early sunday, I meant after I have slept.
You should not be replacing the existing Daz JCMs, which is what you do by giving yours the same name. You still want the Daz JCM to apply, then you add your shape-speific JCM on top of that.
Syrus Dante ok that's fine. I know, my works are really complicated but you see, I don't like to solve the questions simply with a "patch". Is not my work to way. More is complex the question more I like to solve it cause I want my products be faultless. Thank you for videos, I wait for the next one.
Richard, I'm applying same procedure we did for the Reiko catsuit. The FBM is not the same? Esha do the same, replace the JCM corrective. Anyway you say to add on top of Daz JCM mine corrective. This is interesting. How to? With same name of the Daz JCM or different? And where to replace it?