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I will continue to use Carrara until it literally does not even open on my computer, so I expect it to be in my toolbox for many years to come whether or not DAZ picks up development again, but I have mostly switched to Blender for modeling, sculpting and 3D painting (for non-photorealistic stuff, for PBR textures I use Substance Painter) and find that it does most of what I can do in Carrara, although sometimes it's not as obvious how. I seem to be one of the few who really like the layout and shortcuts... but I am loving the ground-up revamp they are doing of the UI and the minimal keymap default for the upcoming 2.8.
If you want to check out what the new interface looks like, you can download the current Alpha, updated pretty much daily as they add features and fix bugs in preparation for the Beta release later this year. It's pretty crashy right now and a lot of features aren't fully implemented yet (almost no add-ons will work until they release the new API) but you can at least see the new layout and check if it looks more usable for how you work: https://builder.blender.org/download/
I've successfully imported many DAZ sets and props to Blender via mcasual's teleblender script and they look nice with very little tweaking. I've transferred posed and clothed DAZ figures too but have never managed any good rigging for them (I think there is a Blender plugin out there that does create some sort of usable rigging for DAZ figures and even transfers the character dials to shape keys, but I have not tried it).
I can assure you that DAZ Studio isn't that limited. I do lots of animations with it and none of them are premade, everything is made by myself.
Also there are a lot of plugins, free and commercial, that allows you to do same things you can do in Carrara.
Also the interface can be changed to be resemblant to Carrara!
So you have a valid "escape route", after all.
Thank you for the timely reminder, Chohole. You're quite right, of course.
The challenge is in deciding how likely that is to happen. Obviously, until DAZ says "Nope, Carrara is done done done, we're never touching that again," then there's a chance that it might be revived. At the moment, however, it seems as if DAZ is thriving on selling content. It doesn't really need to do much software development.
DAZ|Studio development, of course, will continue because it helps drive the content side of the business: expect more new features like dForce, and support for advances in iRay and NVidia's newest hardware. But for Carrara (and Bryce, and even Hexagon) to be actively developed, developing them would need to make commercial sense, which is to say that they'd need to be part of some new business model.
There are two possibilities. The first would be to have the product itself as the driver of a new revenue stream. DAZ would have to position Carrara (or Bryce, or Hexagon) as a something-killer: an app that is going to compete head-to-head with the current market leaders, and take away dollars from them in sufficient quantity to make it worth DAZ's while. "We'll make a new version and we'll sell a few copies, mostly to the people who own older versions," isn't going to cut it. They need a new, bigger market. The problem here is that it's challenging to take software that's been neglected for a few years (however good it was to start with) and make it compete with the current state-of-the-art so compellingly that users are going to want to make the switch.
The other option would be if Carrara (or Bryce, or Hexagon) offered DAZ the chance to sell additional content. I suppose Carrara 9 might drive a limited number of additional sales. Bryce, with its more idiosyncratic file formats, might drive some Bryce-only content sales. Hexagon, being a much lower-level tool, probably wouldn't sell much more than a few instructional videos. But overall, I can't imagine any of them forming the basis of an independent, profitable ecosystem in the way that DAZ|Studio is.
I may be wrong. I have no idea what DAZ's master plan for world domination looks like. Maybe they're just waiting to execute a ten-year strategy with Carrara as a central pillar. And maybe there's another business case I haven't thought of.
But while Chohole is right that nothing is set in stone, I am doubtful that we will see another version of Carrara. The odds, in my view, are against it.
as a model loader and renderer DAZ studio is acceptable but I cannot model, generate trees and terrains in it or use particles and physics, for those I would not only need Blender but an acceptable way to marry the two
my point is I can do all I want on the fly in the one application not that alternatives are any lesser I just need to use more of them and do more work
it would be ironic if one day Carrara works better on Linux via Wine than on Windows :) lol. Almost everything works well, last time I checked, the main principle to avoid crashes would be to not cancel rendering. Other than that and couple of troublesome plug ins, If the OS brakes it, you can rely on Linux and Wine HQ! works pretty much well. Apologies, couldn't resist bringing Linux into the chat. ;)
Blender 2.8 looks like gonna be a promising release regarding UI.
Take a look, maybe you seen it. Blender Pro.
- Rest in peace...
I'll probably hold on to Carrara 'til I do this no longer, but between Blender for its super-active development activity, and shade3d for a similar 'does it all' solution, I'm not sure what I'd do next.
Anyone else try/compare shade3d? I'm OK w Blender, but it's a *lot* more than I want to 'do/learn again'.
Like most here, I've got/putz-d with, and really like most of DS, Iclone, Poser, Bryce, Blender, etc. While I can/do use DS, it isn't my goto app, although it is compatible with most of my content and the negelected animation tools are still useful to my workflow (stopped buying figure content past Genesis1).
Sad that the Biz-Wiz-s don't get that customers see development as a reason to buy content. It's quite apparent that they see content driving development.
My buying is pretty much limited to optimizing my PC+ coupons these days, and mostly older products that I figured I'd 'buy someday'.
Let us know if you find a viable peer to Carrara, as I'm not sure a replacement is possible!
cheers,
--ms
Maybe we settle for what we have if it is doing what is wanted now and in forseable future because 'talk' of"non support / development' does send one off in different directions looking for the holy grail which has led me to waste a lot of time because I always come back to Carrara with a feeling of its the best all round without breaking the bank.The fact it is still so robust despite no update for several years is a tribute to its capability. New examples of what can be achieved with it are presented every day = ie the challenges.
Sing the praises of its virtues so that plugin developers are encouraged and new artists are motivated to try it - even if that is DAZ's job
What if we picked a single feature at a time of Carrara and lobbied for inclusion in Daz Studio until it became Carrara by another name?
A Carrara by any other name would still smell as sweet.
K4 doing shakespeare :)
Yeah, I've tried it and it is a step in the right direction but it is still too much blender. I like a simple easy to understand interface that I don't have to read a manual or look at a hundred video's to figure out. Blender is at the very peak of horrible interface and counter intutive period! The die hard Blender fanatics and programmers should take a hard look at the interface of Carrara and Bryce and see what a user interface that makes visual sense looks like. Daz has great software but like the Steam company with the story of the dead Half Life 3 game, the software is going to die because the money is not in software devolopement but in selling content licenses. The worst thing that can happen to great software is closed source. This is because if the software is not generating enough income to justify paying in house programmer to work on it > it does not get development period. This is why there is so many great programs out there that have just died on the selves of companies because it is their intellectual property and is no longer profitable to develop. So these programs to to the great scrap hord of companies who just hold on to them untill they become so obsolete that they are worthless then may but probably not be released to open domain because maybe they could squeeze a few more dollars out ot the junk pile. What we need is a new license system that allows for the code to be released but if the program is used to generate income that a license must be purchased from the original owner of the IP. That way the program gets the help it needs to come back to life and be useful and the Company that wants profit but does not want to spend resources on development can also get money for doing nothing so both parties can benifit. I ablsolutely hate Intellectual Property, it stifles innovation and causes stagnation.
I find the current Blender interface the best interface ever. I guess, I'll stick to it even when the new 2.8 with all new toy interface will arrive, if it's possible.
Misty, you have given Carrara a renaissance with your developments with G3 and G8. As others say, it's the mix of using characters, modelling, creating environments.. natural and architectural that keep me with Carrara. I can actually see all the tools. Blender was my first encounter and my eyes were all over the place. And my eyes are rubbish these days. Sorry to be abents, lots going on. Back in autumn hopefully!
Maybe petition DAZ and start a crowd-fund to make Carrara open-source? Then devs could pick it up and continue development, or at least keep it compatible with new systems in the coming years.
oh dear, please do we have to repeat all the same stuff as has already been said in tthe umpteen previous threads on this subject.
I am sorry, I am not a long time visitor to the forums so I didn't know. I apologize.
Hi paintbox! No need to apologise. It's a good suggestion. Best way to help Carrara users
Including youtprself is to be active on this forum! Chohole is just doing her 'job' . Aren't we all?
Hi Dydwhy
I hadn't seen Blender Pro, thanks for that. Had a look at the video and also tried bforartists. Blender is a powerful program but solutions to the interface seem to suffer from the same problem that many UIs have - trying to load everything into the one viewport. This results in a series of drop down lists and sub-catefgories that end up being very hard to navigate and remember. I always though the Carrara interface with its seperate 'rooms' specializing in particular activities was an elgant solution to this. New work spaces you can swap between mean the programmers dont have to load endless drop downs into the one workspace. This always made Carrara neat, clean, and it is no problem to move between areas. It avoids clutter and overloading information - can't see why other programs don't adopt the model. Carrara was clearly designed by someone with a visual capacity rather than an engineering imagination.
Bforartists is also pretty awful. Just trying to find how to make a quad view took about 10 minutes. Most of the programs have pretty dreadful materials
And yes, Chohole, I was also hoping to avoid rekindling speculation on how to revive/save Carrara but to find alternatives.
So far the most sympathetic program I have found with a functionity that matches and sometimes exceeds Carrara is Cinema 4D. It is expensive and only reasonably priced as an education version.
I also tried Lightwave but it was surprisingly lacking in functionality. It also languished for a few years before being updated just recently and it does feel like it is playing catch up, but hasn't got there yet.
I don't want to add to the hand wringing, and I am completely ignorant about software development, but I did see Shade 3d has had 500,000 purchases. At about $600 a pop that is about 300 million dollars. I imagine that a serious programmer might earn about 150,000 a year. If DAZ were to put a team of even 5 to work on updating Carrara the 750,000 a year might result in some very serious returns.
So, you say it’s over? Perhaps. But this is not the end of the world yet! Carrara 8.5 Pro together with many of its plug-ins and good selection of content like sky and lights rigs and collections of brushes, shaders, props will serve my creative needs for long enough to consider leaving it on my HD disk. IMHO the next stop is LightWave in its latest form but for me spending 1000$ plus for the tools I don’t need much is not an attractive option. So Carrara will be my main set of tools for 3D CG together with 3DCoat, Thea Render Studio, Bitmap2Material, Hexagon and Affinity both apps. Using Architools plug-in helps me making architecture projects with amazing speed. Last PBR plug-in makes a great step forward to get a more sophisticated look. Lastly I read a book “Digital Lighting and Rendering“ by Jeremy Birn to find that Carrara has got all the necessary tools for professional lighting, rendering he wrote about. It’s amazing, indeed. DCG plug-in free set makes a great addition. To round it up I find Carrara as a perfect toolset for making print illustrations assets, graphic design, sketching creative ideas and even serious arch-viz projects. Carrara is much easier to learn than other apps and should be the beginner’s first choice. Are you looking for more from the cheapest 3D all-round around? Come on! You will never do your all creative job with only one tool on your HD.
So far Carrara works without a problem on my new rig of i7 six cores CPU with 32 GB of RAM memory and WIN7 Pro. I didn’t spot any problem using Carrara even on my cheap KIANO pad with Atom CPU, 4 GB of RAM and WIN10. I cannot believe the world will abandon Window or iOS for many years to come. Maybe someday all the devices will use Android OS or something alike only but it will take few generations’ lifetimes to get there. So take it easy.
Finally do not tell to the world Carrara is an abandonedware but it’s a vintageware instead. It is old and out of fashion now but it still gives us all a robust set of 3D CG tools the creative souls need. It is like an old Bugatti car - too old for modern rallies but funny to use and good for a journey. Happy creative trips!
P.S. I like the idea of crowd-funding for Carrara development if DAZ would make it open-source.
+1
+1
honestly if DAZ could even make Bryce Opensource or at least provide an API SDK whatever (not a coder unsure of right terms) people could develop plugins for it
Hell I would buy a Bryce Octane plugin in a blink of the eye
Carrara apparently needs more of the program accessible in the SDK according to our developers
I bet it more information were forthcoming even if under a nondisclosure agreement others could integrate things like HD morphs in it
leave Bryce out fof it
you may want to keep it to yourself but I actually admire it, but OMG it needs updating
and I can load the latest thing in the DAZ store still in Carrara
it takes work
some more than others and lots of swearing and whining
but damn GET IT INTO CARRARA one way or another
If these forums had a search function worth a nickle, perhaps these repeating themes would be findable/avoidable, but that's just my silly opinion, which is also ... yet another repeating but apparently meaningless thread topic, so... there's that.
nothing to see here, moving along, back to the Original (oft repeated but unfindable) topic...
meh,
--ms
I use google to find threads in Daz Forums
Like this
yeah, but only because we have to.
careful, as that clever technique probably also works just as wonderfully with terms like 'blender', 'renderosity', 'hivewire', 'smithmicro', 'c4d', 'lightwave', 'iclone', 'shade3d', etc.
Please don't get me wrong, Carrara *is*, and will continue to be *my* tool of choice for as long as Windows w/ some reasonable CPU power runs it. As will Bryce for the many things that Bryce does so well.
But my advice to new users is to 'check out Blender'.
My dwindling purchasing interest now goes to items that work in Carrara, Bryce, and Poser (because poser-stuff usually works in Carrara...). Spending a bunch of energy 'hacking' DS-oriented content into Carrara is no longer the fun puzzle it once was for me. If Carrara were under active development, I'm pretty certain there would be more wonderful artists like philw and tango-alpha making beautiful and compatible products (just bought out tango-alpha's fastgrab stuff, as well as rajRaja's bryce items.) Certainly a cart/horse thing. I *do* take heart that we still have the wealth of plugin developers that apparently appreciate and support our tool-of-choice to this day.
To be honest, it's amazingly clear to me that if I spent the rest of my days simply learning/testing/verifying *what* carrara/bryce can actually *do*, i'd run out of time to do anything with either. Add to that the reality that mastering those features, and then *applying* them effectively to my zillion ideas would take a couple more lifetimes...
That I'm in that sort of state (both appreciative and functionally incompetent) with these tools makes it a fool's errand to go find another similar tool to become appreciative and incompetent with... Maybe I will master Carrara yet, but only if continue to commit and persist, enjoying the *path* more than any particular end. Those 3D silver bullets have yet to work for me, but it's good that I'm finally sensing that pattern/reality.
As an end-all do-it-all tool tool for more than I imagine most exploring hobbiests and small pro-houses would go beyond, Carrara is still an outstanding starting point that lets anyone who tries, accomplish most anything 3D can do - and pretty well, even after 5+ years of stasis. "Works for me" and apparently some very capable and creative others. I still feel quite fortunate to have found Carrara/Bryce early in my 3D explorations.
peace,
--ms
Pam I know you have to tow the line as a forum mod
but as a Bryce user I am positive you share many of our fears
its OK like you we adapt but fear the day technoogy surpasses us