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If i was only or mainly a Gamer, I would definitely not pre-order; I would reconsider once reviews are out containing benchmarks.
As mainly a renderer, I am waiting until I know when the IRAY implementation is available; but again, I am interested in seeing comparrisons.
I thought about picking up a 1080ti for about £700, but passed. My 980ti still does just fine.
Maybe the new Octane will make it so having the latest and greatest Nvidia card is not so important, and they will even have AMD support.
As a techie, it is interesting though.
Oh yes, nowadays offers of 1080ti are very tempting - I could get one for almost the same money, I've paid for my 1080.
I think, I will wait and see, what happens with the drivers and iray for 2080ti and then decide.
...saw a couple 1080 Ti's at Newegg for under 700$ last night (and not just by 1 - 5$ either).
Yeah, a bunch at Newegg for only $650. That's like $100 below what I paid long ago. I'm wondering if the price will drop more when the 20xx's hit the street.
So between nvidias site, a couple of other comparison websites and the numbers here I think a 1070 will help me quite a bit... now to see if my power supply is big enough!
...if you have a 600 - 750w PSU (that latter which I have) that would be more than sufficient. My old 1 GB 460 drew 10 more watts at peak than the 1070 does.
The 1070 only draws a maximum of 150 watts. Unless you're also powering a room air conditioner I'm guessing a 400watt PS is more than enough. Do you have other high power components?
BTW, I have a 1080ti with a 1070 and I can't get my entire system to go much beyond 400watts at full render.
Mendoman,
This is why I've been asking (and I realize that no one can answer this with any confidence unless they are experts about the engineering considerations) as to whether or not people suspect that there will be huge improvements, or only small improvements in RTX hardware and software over the next couple of years. This is both in regards to hardware and software. It matters because these questions are architecture related... in this case Turing. There might be limits to just how much this tech can improve with current materials and production methods, port specifications..etc....
If HARDWARE improvements remain mostly static for the next 4 years (due to low sales of the RTX line or simply a lack of significant innovations in RTX development):
Pros-
A. Nvidia will be slow to release the next gen of RTX cards. More games and rendering apps will have more time to integrate the current RTX tech into their engines before the second gen RTX cards are relased. If the sands of RTX shift too quickly however, many simply wont have time to adapt which hurts RTX's ability to saturate the market. Think Iray updates. As Ebergerly observes, simple core counts tell you nothing between generations of cards. If RTX tech moves in the same direction as Cuda tech has, then the current RTX tech won't be round very long. But again, the design of these particular cores specific to this task have physical limits just like CPU clock speeds have stalled, so it remains to be seen how much headroom there really is for RTX. We dont know how close to those physical limits they might already be approaching. Which leads us to the cons.....
Cons-
A. Prices will also remain mostly static, since there will be no competing newer RTX specific architectures that would drive prices for current cards down. This would mean that waiting wont help much in terms of pricing
B. If RTX turns out to be a pseudo or even a total failure due to gamers hating and not adopting, then Nvidia might decide to completely redirect their focus to other things gamers care about more, meaning that further research on RTX tech dies with the current generation of cards. This is again bad for us in the long term.
C. Competitors, such as AMD will likely not adopt their own versions of RTX type technologies, meaning that if raytracing tech turns out to be good for 3d rendering only, we will remain even more pigeon holed into Nvidia as there would be no viable alternatives.
If RTX Software Improvements remain mostly static for the next 4 years
Pros-
More time for more people to get in on it.
Cons-
You'll need new architecture to see any kind of noteworthy improvements.
Software updates are more certain than hardware updates. If apps can be written that take better advantage of hardware, then all that is needed is new drivers and we will suddenly see our current cards become more powerful but only to a limited degree compared to what updated hardware can achieve.
So, anyone willing to place any bets this early on? I doubt it. and withgout being able to place these bets.,I simply dont know how to base a good decision about this stuff. Buying into the hype is no less wise than hating on it. It's too soon to feel any kind of way and by the time we do know how to feel it will then be time to feel differently yet again.
I need a drink!
That's fine, I'm just encouraging folks to base their decisions on facts, not fears. If your power supply is, say, 400watts and your maximum draw of the entire system is 200watts, that's nowhere near an overload. And even if you do get an overload the PS is (unless it's junk) designed to protect itself in many ways.
If you look at the recommended power supply sizes they assume a very worst case condition, with everything running at max simultaneously. The CPU, the drives, the GPU, and so on. If you think that will actually happen with your machine, then fine. But for many/most of us you're not going to have that happen.
I think the far more important issue is to buy a name brand, high quality PS, just like you should with all other components. But with power supplies it's even more important, since you need them to be designed with internal protection against overloads and voltage spikes from your utility, etc. But the good ones generally have internal overvoltage protection and overload protection and so on.
And I always recommend spending $30 to buy a power meter to monitor the power usage of your entire computer as you're rendering. And if your entire computer is drawing, say, 100 watts from the wall, and you want to buy a 150watt GPU, you know exactly what you'll need.
And I agree, it can't hurt to buy a larger PS in case you want to buy another GPU in the future, just do it based on facts.
Oh, and by the way...
While a lot of people focus on getting a bigger power supply to prevent computer damage, I think there are other things that are far more direct causes (aside from, as I said before, junk power supplies). And one of them is to make sure you unplug your computer when there is lightning in the area. Yeah, the utility has equipment that helps limit the voltage spikes, and if you get a surge protector on your wall outlet it MIGHT help, but I don't trust any of that. Unplug your stuff. That kind of voltage spike can be REALLY damaging. And do the normal stuff like make sure the PS fan is working and not filled with dust bunnies.
And don't buy junk.
So what do the numbers on that chart mean? Another stat might be helpful, the GPU's age and architecture. When you factor in the age of the architecture, it all makes sense.
Also, unplugging the power during a storm only works if you unplug everything that connects to the computer. That includes the display's power cord if it is not in the same surge protector, anything that might be connected to other components that are plugged in to the computer (like speakers), and the ethernet cable. In fact I just had a repair yesterday where the ethernet port was burned out by a surge, and that surge killed their tv. Surges can come in through any cable. Also note that there are more than just 'surge protectors' out there. A surge protector only protects against surges. Sounds obvious, but lets stop to think what AC power is. AC power alternates. It goes up and down in a wave pattern. You can have spikes, surges, but you can also have sags, drops. The sags can be just a dangerous as surges in different ways. Sags can cause errors in data. You might ask how that is possible. What is data? 1s and 0s. And what is a 1 and a 0? A 1 is "high", and a 0 is "low". So how you get data corruption is that if your disc is writing at that moment, surges and sags can cause data to be written the wrong way. So if you get a lot of corrupted data, maybe its not your drives, maybe its your electricity. They have power conditioners, which are a step above simple surge protectors. Power conditioners are supposed to filter the electricty and maintain a level signal, so they protect against both surges and sags.
And finally there are battery backups. But not all battery backups are the same! There are 2 kinds of backups, standby backups and online backups. For the very best protection, online battery backups are the way to go. Quick explanation: standby backups only kick in when power goes out. So you have that brief moment when there is no power, and for that moment you are vunerable. Surges can still get through, too (like they can on all surge protectors.) However, online battery backups work by always using the battery. The power from the wall goes into the battery, and then the battery actually powers the equipment. So basically the battery becomes a barrier between the electricity and the equipment, and that is how you get the best protection available. Online battery backups also do the job of power conditioning, filtering power.
So if you have a very expensive PC, then it may be a good idea to protect that PC and ALL of its components with an online battery backup. If I was buying one of these Turing cards, I would want one. Right now I have a high end power conditioner.
I have a nice UPS (uninterruptable power supply) with true sine wave output and full surge on all my equipment. Not sure how to tell how big the power supply is without opening the case. 24G ram and a 2 3t WD hard drives and 1 250g ssd hd. Systems runs pretty low power normally and fan kicks in on renders after 5 minutes. I look for my original order from HP but can not find it.
I am mainly hoping to speed up interactive rendering so I can work faster and do some tuturials / streaming as I work.
...QFT.
You don't want to push your PSU above 80% of its max rating; they loose efficiencly rapidly at that point, and wear out quicker;
PSU is really the only item when it goes that can take other components with it; shouldn't happen, but can.
Oh yes - my old computer crashed totally, when power supply almost exploded, even though, it was not the cheap one
and it was not using all its power (750 W for the old intel Core 2 Quad 2.4 GHz cpu, Nvidia GTX660).
Probably the right PSU is the most important part of the computer - so it is worth to do some research and pick the best one for the money.
Yes, I hear the power supply "losing efficiency" argument a lot. But sorry, it's pretty much a myth for most of us.
Most power supplies are between 80-90% efficient regardless of how much load they have. Which means that a 600 watt power supply might draw only an extra 50-150 watts from the wall that is unused but you still have to pay the power company for. But keep in mind those efficiency numbers vary only a few % as you go from say 25% load to 100% load. From what I've seen, with decent power supplies operating at 50% load is only like 3% more efficient than at 100% load. And 3% of 600 watts is only 18 watts.
Even if you lost, say, 20 watts extra due to running your PS near 100% rating compared to, say, 50% load, and ran your computer fully loaded 8 hours a day for a month, that's 0.02 kilowatts for 240 hours per month. And if your electricity costs, say, 20 cents for every kilowatt-hour, that's only 20 cents for 4.8 kilowatt hours, or maybe $1 a month extra in your electric bill. And that's assuming running 8 hours a day, every day, doing renders at peak load.
Now, that's maybe $12 a year extra electric bills, assuming you're rendering 8 hours a day, every day, all year. Now you're free to plug in your own numbers if you disagree, but in the end does it really make much difference?
And what's the cost differential for a bigger power supply? Do the math. It might take 4 years of increased electric bills to even justify a bigger power supply based on those tiny numbers.
So yeah, as I said before, don't buy junk. Buy a well made, efficient power supply. But there may not be a need to get a monster power supply unless it makes you feel better.
Also, regarding surge protectors and battery backups, I'd again caution folks to be guided by facts, not fear.
First, don't assume that surge protectors will help. If you do some research you'll find that surge protectors can be useless during lightning storms. Which is why I suggest disconnecting your stuff completely.
Also, on the other hand, don't assume that you'll always get all kinds of evil stuff coming in from the power company. Long ago I had a friend who worked for the local power company and he educated me on a lot of my fears.
First, keep in mind that, at least here in the US (and probably most countries), utilites are mandated to maintain voltage to every customer within a range of about +/- 5 to10%, and that's to protect customers' equipment. And they spend tons of $$ to install voltage regulators and add more power lines to make that happen. So most of the time you're fine. Now of course bad stuff can happen, like a tree falling into a power line or a car hitting a pole. But that generally means your voltage will drop for a bit until the utility equipment can detect it and disconnect the damaged circuit. And that's usually done in like 1-2 seconds. And usually after that it gets restored in maybe 15 seconds or so if it's just a temporary thing. So yeah, you might see very short term voltage dips on occasion.
The other, more damaging thing is over voltage. But those are generally controlled by the utility, since those can also damage the utility's equipment. So they put stuff like surge arrestors on their system for lighting protection, and make sure their grounds are good, and so on. So generally their design limits overvoltages, though the big thing is lightning. And if lightning strikes near your home, that could be damaging. Which is why I suggest disconnecting anything important. Another unknown is your house wiring, and making sure your grounds are good and your other electrical stuff is okay. That could cause a lot of bad stuff.
So yeah, if you're regularly working on important data and aren't backing up and worry that a sudden voltage dip will turn off your computer, then yeah a battery backup is fine. Just don't get too paranoid about stuff and waste money. Keep in mind that many of us over many years have never had a problem, even though we're regularly seeing little voltage dips from the utility that have no effect.
Nicstt is correct, they do run more efficiently at a lower load. And also wear out. Also not mentioned is that the lower the load, the cooler they run.
I have a PSU that was 4 years old I think, I have it hooked up to 2 1080 Tis. I think they are supposed to draw 250 W at peak, and it's hooked up to an EVGA 1000 W supply. Was doing some mining between rendering. I hooked up a Kill-a-watt to it, I think rendering it indicated I was only drawing 700 Watts. But soon after mining, the PS quit supplying the load and crashing while mining. To mine without crashing I had to throttle the cards down quite a bit.
Long story short, they do degrade.
How much more efficiently?
So are you saying that by running a 1000 watt power supply at 700 watts you're degrading it? By how much?
The difference in price between a high quality 1000W and a high quality 500W power supply is less than 100 bucks. Any argument about how the lower one may be enough seems to serve more as a demonstration of one's technical knowlege rather than actual reasonable advice?
Nice off topic though guys. OT in the OT thread
Speaking of the new 20xx RTX cards, here's an interesting video from Gamers Nexus in response to an "insane" Tom's Hardware article discussing how you need to just go out and buy one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu7pxJXBBn8
I think reasonable advice is advice that helps you not spend money you don't need to spend isn't it?
Haha, that really was a horrible article.
Sure. But putting the added cost of another 500W in relation to the other stuff I need to buy, say a 1000 bucks GPU, and adding other caveats that were mentioned, like wanting to add another GPU later, or two (after all we are talking about GPU rendering here), or even just being on the safe side for really very little money? Then no, I don't think it's reasonable advice anymore.
This thread took some kind of different direction.
Still I share what I can:
I did ask DAZ3D support on Monday 20th August right after the annoucement of the new RXT cards if they allready received an updated Iray version for Turing that will be ready on September 20th.
On Friday I received the answer that DAZ3D will not release information on the future development plans. It was suggested to keep an eye on the forum.
compare #278642
- - -
I ended up preordering two ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 Ti TURBO.
"Massive heatsinks and multiple fans work well in larger cases with room to spare, but they’re not always ideal for smaller form factors and multi-GPU setups with tightly packed cards. The Turbo was created specifically for those environments, and the latest version offers a big cooling upgrade."
compare:
https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming-graphics-cards/introducing-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-and-rtx-2080-graphics-cards-from-rog-and-asus/
- - -
Why did I preorder?
- When Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang stands on the stage and tells the world that they worked 10 years on that RTX ray tracing technology then I trust him.
- When Otoy CEO Jules Urbach talks about a possible 8x speed improvement with Turing cards for rendering (!) I believe that as well.
- Companies will need time to implement support for the new core types. Some errors are known and will be adressed.
- Next year new cards may or may not be released. But I want to be able to use the new technology as soon as it is ready.
- I can not predict how the "mining" community will react to the new cards.
- For multi GPU systems you are not able to just use "any" card. You need to purchase those cards intended for that use that fit with slot size and cooling.
- In some countries preorders are limited to two cards per customer. I do not want to take the risk that later on this number is reduced to just one card again because of lack of stock. In the worst case the specific cards I would need could end up sold out for months.
- - -
He also said, "The more GPU's you buy, the more money you save".
Although, to his credit, he didn't crack up laughing while saying it.
To understand the meaning of a quote it may help to consider it in context to the things said before and after...
- - -
I removed the rest of this post in order to prevent that this thread gets even further misdirected from the actual topic.
...read the article as well as all the comments. Really stirring up quite a fuss over there.