Confessions of a Lost Artist
Ron Knights
Posts: 2,501
I've been working with DAZ products and Poser for almost 20 years. I've been lost the entire time. I am easily overwhelmend. I can't spend too much time trying to make art because I have crippling anxiety attacks. I'm easily confused.
I have a love-hate relationship with DIM. I love the way DIM installs stuff for us. All too often I can't find things. I sit down with some fantastic inspiration for a project. My energy dwindles when I can't find something. I'll never understand DAZ's logic on how or where stuff is installed. I've had mixed results with Smart Content. I really don't want to work with complicated computer stuff like databases, etc. I just want to Make Art.
Over the past few days, I've used DIM to install all my stuff several times. I've discarded the results several times. I started to manually install everything at least twice. It just takes too long to manually install everything. I've decided to use DIM once again, with a different plan.
I've broken up stuff into several categories such as Genesis 2 Female, Genesis 2 Male, etc. In the meantime, the Real World demands my attention with things like paying bills, trying to socialize etc. Maybe one day I'll actually know what I'm doing.
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Hey Ron, I know we've chatted briefly in the forum before about these feelings, and I don't want you to think you're alone. I know I suffer from chronic major depression and anxiety with panic disorder, so I know some of how you must feel.
OMG, I hate DIM. I never know where things go, I don't like the setup...it feels too complicated for my 'foggy' brain. I'm also easily confused and can't retain information. It's gotten worse, but it is what it is. I tried using DIM a few times but gave up. I install every one of my downloads manually where I want them to go and there's no extra stuff going into a cloud somewhere in my computer that I don't want there.
I'd like to make art too, but I'm also easily confused about how to use a lot of the packs I buy that are supposed to be easy to use. I suck at lighting and other things. Products I buy that I think look easy and helpful still require know how. And I am clueless about postwork and that's all you see nowadays is images full of postwork. I've been beta testing every day of my life for more than 10+ years and so I don't get time to render for fun and when I do I'm frustrated with the results and just delete it. It's too much work.
My computer is in the shop and they told me last night that they're going to have to reformat my hard drive. My main Content Library and all my zips are backed up, but I'll have to reinstall everything I've had on my computer for 5 years. It's not only devastating in terms of losiing of all my program files, I am just overwhelmed. I don't have but a couple boxed programs, everything else was downloads with serial numbers that I have to find somewhere in the boxes I've packed up here in the house.
So if you think you have no one to talk to or are alone in how you feel, I'm there with you, and perhaps others are too. I remember telling you I was always a big fan of your site in past years and loved visiting it, so perhaps one day if you get the energy you might think about putting another one up even if it's smaller.
Suze
But you keep coming back, Ron. So something here is feeding your artistic soul- even through the confusion for some of us, that is Daz content directory.
One trick that works for me if it won't show up in Smart or the normal Content Library where it should be is- go to the Daz store, make sure you have the name right. Then open Daz Studio, open Content library, go to Products. Products has everything listed by alphabet. I've never had this fail! So I just bought Divinity, it's not in my content library under gen 8 -female-clothing- or in Smart content even though it is a new product, or anywhere else I've searched. I go to d in the Content library and there it is- just click on it and its there to use.
sapat, thank you so much for your support. You have my sympathy and encouragement when it comes to all the challenges and opportunities. I hope that makes sense. I had my website for over a decade when I existed outside the artistic community. It's a long story that I'd only share in private. The good thing is that I'm here, and there are so many great people around. Maybe in a few months I might consider setting up a new web site. Unfortunately I let my former domain die, and it was bought by someone who wants to resell it for a profit.
Summerhorse, yeah I keep coming back. I am so thrilled at the recent arrival of Mabel 8, Floyd 8, etc. For a decade or more, I wanted some older characters to reflect the middle-aged and senior citizen worlds I have experienced during the past few years. I just love the packages that allow us to celebrate these characters, and essential items such as walkers, canes, etc. Oh and I also bought the Lovable Nerds bundle too!
Thanks again, everyone for your support. I value everyone.
My own two cents is 1) don't fight the system and embrace DIM and DazConnect to install your stuff once, 2) learn about Categories and make your own categories without rearranging the actual "works" so that you can have a virtual folder of Victoria 8 clothes if you like and make a whole virtual system of folders to serve your needs, http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/pub/software/content_manager/cm_managing 3) have good backups and a backup of the database so that if you have a crash, you can restore all of your virtual folders, watch a tutorial of how to create metadata so that you can add your old content to your virtual folders, use DIM and DazConnect to install patches as needed, learn to navigate through your virtual folders so that you can find geometry and textures for kitbashing, and finally, spend the bulk of your time rendering rather that organizing since the point of the program is to play with it.
Trying to find things I've bought can be a nightmare. And it is even worse with Poser stuff. My solution is using my own categories. It was a real slog getting started but now I just have to categorise new stuff as I buy it. It means I can arrange stuff any way I want, clothes sorted by type of outfit, all spaceships, offices, restauarants etc in ther own categories. I still have difficulty remembering where some things are but this makes it a lot easier. It also has the advantage that things can be in more than one category without being installed twice. For example, I've put the Mars Rover in Land Vehicles and Space Vehicles and I've got some clothes categorised as Fantasy and Historical outfits if I think they are suitable for both types of scene. And since I don't actually move anything DIM can still find stuff and install updates for me. My attempts to use smart content ended in confusion. One day I might try and figure out how it works but not now.
nemesis10, yeah, in my saner moments I agree. I had been manually installing my stuff for many years before DAZ introduced DIM. It was a pain, but I mostly knew where to find things. It would be easier if DAZ had better quality control regarding names of products. Example: I installed Basic Poses, and it came out as something else. I couldn't find the product till I discovered the problem.
My current system is to break up content into some logical, yet smaller sections. I have all Genesis 2 Male products in one folder, etc. In the past, I had one huge folder, called "People." It was too massive, and I kept getting lost. I'm also creating folders (collections) for such artists as Maclean, Stonemason, i13. Sometimes I want to play around with western stuff, so I have a 19th Century collection. Super heros and scifi go together. I've spent an entire day on this new organizing scheme, and probably have another day to go. Then I can look at Categories and Smart Content.
I install everything (except third party content) Via DIM. Then I make my own custom categories. Here is a link to a mini tutorial/example of how to do it. You only have to find your stuff once, and put it in the custom category that you want. You can also put things in more than one custom category so you could put something in Genesis 2 male and then also put it in say, fantasy clothing, or whatever. Not being able to find things was a huge deal for me as well. Very frustrating and time consuming. And I loathe smart content.
Just take things one day and one step at a time. It will all get done eventually. I tend to get anxious when I can't find things or when I am getting ready to push myself out of my comfort zone. Not a good feeling. I'm sure many of us understand at least a little bit of what you are going through. Just don't give up!
I was going to say this. Thanks for posting @Summerhorse. This is the way I learned to use Daz, and I have never really adopted the legacy (Poser) way of accessing my products. And from what I've read in the forums, many people would do well to do likewise.
I did, however, have two instances where I had to do more searching outside of the Products tab. One was KindredArts' Iray Glassworx, which is a GREAT product, but it was not in the Products tab anywhere. I found it by looking in the legacy format, but I wasted 10-15 minutes on that. I notified Tech Support, and after two days they told me that "it is not considered a bug." I got in touch with the vendor (who is a GREAT guy, BTW) and he contacted Tech Support and discovered they had messed up the metadata as well. They did finally sort it out, and you can now find the product under its listed name in the Products tab.
The second instance was SloshWerks' (another GREAT guy) Nursery, which is found under "Toon Nursery" in the Products tab, and Tech Support refuses to change either the store name listing or the Products tab name listing to make them concur (though its product page URL includes "toon-nursery"). Some older products (with four-digit SKU's) may have some components that must still be searched for in legacy, but the products themselves can be found under their respective names.
A few months ago I posted a message about the Red Rabbit bundle. The items are not all where you'd expect them. At times I've thought about taking time to create a list of such problems, but I really don't have the time or energy. I have my own ideas of how to do things in an orderly fashion. DAZ has its own. They offer the products. and I continue to buy them.
I install all of my content via DIM. Inclduing third party stuff from a variety of sources including freebies.
DIM is also a time saver. I use it to help me find the location of my installed products. Just navigate to the Installed tab and right click on a product and select Show Installed Files... Using that info I navigate over to DAZ Studio's Content pane and quickly find the stuff I am looking for.
I also developed my own product database I call 3D Librarian. Navigating thru it is the same as you would the product stores. I know what I have by searching via a category tree, a product's title, PAs' names, or keywords (that can include the product's contents), etc.
Your 3D Librarian looks interesting. Is it a Studio script or plugin, or is it a standalone application? And did you follow your user name and program it in Delphi Pascal
I used to have a lot of problems with categories and I intended to create some sort of content management system if I ever managed to figure out Daz Scripting or get the SDK to work. But categories work reliably for me in the current version of Studio so I dropped that idea.
Yes, that's exactly where I got my username from. I was a Delphi programmer for a long time. However, 3D Librarian was coded with Lazarus/Free Pascal for Windows, Mac, and Linux.
I didn't mean to destract this thread from the OP, I just went on a tangent. :) My aim was to show how I use DIM and how it is an invaluable tool for me at this time.
I sometimes get confused finding where something ended up in DAZ Studio, but if I download the file and open the zip to follow the path, I'll often discover that the vendor has packaged some items in odd places. It's not DAZ that puts things where they are, but usually the way the vendor has packaged it. I bought some poses and after DIM installed them, I couldn't find them to save my life. I downloaded the zip and looked in the folders only to find that the poses were packaged by the vendor in the props folder because it came with some props. That was the individual vendor who packaged it that way, not DAZ. I wish they would put each element of a package in their right places. It makes it confusing.
I've been thinking about trying to find out how to use the labelling or tagging field in the parameters for a lot of products. It's a mystery to me, but I think the idea is that you tag everything with whatever label you want to find it by, and then when you search for the label in your content - everything you want shows up. I don't know if I'm right, but I think that's how it works. Maybe there's instructions or a tutorial or something. I'm going to try it anyway - with a few products.
I just wish the Smart Content pane was smarter. If it categorized things by default by generation for one thing. When I see figures they are only divided by male and female and unless the PA printed on the icon what generation it is, they are lumped together, same with hair and clothes. Yes you can check a character and see only clothes for that character but if I want to see all wardrobe, I have no idea what generation the outfit I'm picking is for for autofit and have to look it up online on the Daz site. What I have to do often is search the store first for, let's say, sci-fi clothes for example, and check to see what I own, then find it in my library.
Sometimes creating my art is like a crazy game. I just go through my figures and see what I haven't used yet or recently, pick one, alter it to my liking, then decide, who is she? ((Or he.) Then try on various hairs, again, trying to get a sense of who this figure is, if they are fantasy or realistic, pinup or warrior, then try on clothing that seem appropriate for them, then decide what might they be doing for a pose, etc... It's a weird way of doing art, but fun if you are doing something for yourself. If I'm doing something for a client, I have to depend on the Daz & Rendo site searches to see what I already own to fit the scene.
In Poser, I had everything set up perfectly where I know where everything is. It just seems like soooo much work to attempt to categorize in DS with all the stuff I now have in my Daz Library. The time it would take to categorize everything I think would be a lot longer than simply doing searches on the Daz & Rendo sites (or my library when that actually works.)
I normally download the zip thru DIM, then look inside to see how it's organized. If something is outside of a folder I think it should be in, I move it to where I think it should be (except for anything in data or texture folders). Just had one this week for Scifi Greebles...the folder of files was outside the Props folder where it belongs, so I dropped it in the Props folder and installed the whole archive manually.
Laurie
nDelphi, I am the "OP," and don't mind any distractions. To the rest of you, I hear you and share your pain and pleasure. I've gone back to Square One and decided to simplify my setup. (I've done this before.) I'll have one folder for everything Genesis related. I tried dividing between various Genesis categories, and got lost. I'm just starting to rebuild to what will be my final re-organization. In the next few days I might just post a YouTube video about the experience. I will be adding a Twitter link to my signature. You can feel free to follow any of my activities from there.
Just to add in to everyone else's suggestions, what I do is if I remember the name, or partial name, of the product I'm looking for, I first open up DIM. Wait for it to finish, then hit the Installed tab (I think that's the name, it's on the far right). Type in what you remember of the name in the filter box in the upper right. It should reduce your options to just a few, including the one you're looking for. At the right of your desired item is a right facing arrow head. Click on that, then on Show Installed Files from the popup menu. This has the effect of looking inside your zip file. Look for a mass of files in whatever category you think it might be installed in. Bought a building? Look for a bunch of files that start with Environments or Props, and so on. Nice thing about this is that you can quickly find legacy Poser install files, too. If you can open the zip file, you can already do all this, but this way, it's all in one spot.
Though yes, I wish for a little more standardization in the install locations. The only hope is to keep up on the new items you buy and shuffle them into your own organization scheme quickly. At least then, anything new will be the stuff that's "out of place" and quickly identifiable.
I never use DAZ Studio and DIM at the same time. My screens are already occupied with DAZ Studio. Besides, it just makes things too complicated to fumble with two different apps at the same time.
I seem to remember that you should not be running DIM and Daz studio at the same time to avoid corrupting the database...
That's what I recall!
Huh! I'm new to the community and have never heard that, but I've used DIM and Studio at once plenty of times in the past. I've had Studio refuse to log on to CMS because DIM was running, but shutting them down and restarting Studio would fix that problem. You also have to refresh the Content Library after installing to make it see the new products, and it won't run new morphs in a figure that's already in the scene (eg: if I downloaded Mabel 8 while Genesis 8 Female was in the scene, I would not be able to use the shape with the existing character, unless you save it and reopen it). Never had a corrupted database, though. Maybe lucky?
Also, I wasn't really suggesting having them both open at once (I do, but I guess I'm reckless). You could run DIM to install your new figure, jump over to Installed, check the installed files to see where it's loaded, then close DIM and open Studio. Only trick is you'd have to remember what the file tree was like. ("Okay, I remember WetFX Decal Kit is under Presets\Materials for some reason, I'll go there and hunt... yup, there it is.") That solution can get tedious for a lot of items, though. I usually just look up stuff I can't find, then move it around in the directory tree.
I find Studio packaging to be pretty logical. For instance, an outfit for Genesis 8 Female will be found in (your top level folder) /People/Genesis8 Female/Clothing/ (either outfit name or PA name/outfit name).
Texture and other assets will be found in Runtime or Data folders, but the user doesn't need to worry about those. Everything you need to use a product will be found in the main (people/Genesis 8 female/ etc) folder.
Admittedly some things such as Environments, props, can have various "category" sub folders but the root folders (at the same level as People) will be Environments, Props, Shader Presets, Scripts, Light Presets etc.
I've attached a sample of my Content library. I have added some additional categoryish foldes inside of clothing and a couple of other places.
You obviously haven't seen my "Runtimes." Scene files can be found under several different categories. A car can be found under "vehicles, land" or it can be found in some crazy places. There is no logical consistency.
Don't get me started on DAZ's Poser Content. That is one terrible nightmare. It's like someone threw a side of beef into the blades of an industrial fan. Splatter and scatter everywhere.
It depends on if I am looking for inspiartion or trying to find a product and whether or not I know the name.
I really suggest using ATI's browser add-on and then check "ITEMS I OWN" and simply browse the DAZ website! You have all the normal filters like Genres and Models to narrow it down. I often forget WHAT I have picked up especially on some crazy sales or get X amount free purchases. I also use the Daz site for searches fora product sine the long descriptions usually have my answers in them.
After I have the name I search all in smart content if it is not there then it is off to Alphabetized Content listing where everything else is listed. Be careful when you are inside DS to be onthe Products or Items tab depending on what you want. I have good luck finding things bouncing between if I feel like looking.
I also use the ReadMe link which is on ATI browser add-on or http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/SKU/start where you replace SKU the 4 or 5 digit sku number. This tells all the files and locations and has helpful information and templates too. Not all of the older has been populated but the last several years are there as is popular items.
That may have been true before, possibly with Valentina (which was certainly prone to corruption), but it isn't true now - and not closing one before opening the other avoids the potential issue of bad timing leading to PostgreSQL not being available to the second application.
Ron,
I don't use Studio's categories. Studio packaging gives a logical enough file organization for most products. As far as Poser content, that's not a Studio issue, that's a legacy problem from the unstructured way Poser products were. packaged. The fact you say "Runtimes" tells me you haven't embraced the Studio philosophy. For Studio it's "Content Library" not "Runtime". in Studio the Runtime folder holds (non user facing) assets needed by the various products. the Content Management Service provides the pointers for the program.
fastbike1, I totally support the idea of DAZ Studio. I dumped Poser even before DAZ began their Genesis line. I use the Content Library pallate almost exclusively. I have troubles finding things there. I look at the other things like Smart Content, and get lost in the complexity. If I want to use a horse, I don't want to figure whether it's a Realistic or Fantasy animal. If I want a hog motorcycle, I don't want to guess if it's listed under Props, Land Vehicles, etc.
In Real Life, if I want a beer, I go to the liquor store and get a beer. I don't need to navigate a series of maps and choose between Imported, Domestic, Craft, etc. I just get the darned beer, buy some chips then go home and have some fun. My frustration with DAZ Studio is similar to my frustration with Netflix. If I go to Netflix, I want to find Netflix original TV shows or movies. I don't want to have some scrolling list of thumbnails, and hundreds of categories. I want to quickly find what I want. I don't want Netflix hiding my movies or TV shows. I don't want DAZ hiding my artistic goodies.
I use DAZ Studio to express my artistic energy. I don't use DAZ Studio to strain my technical skills. I am slowly getting to tolerate DIM once again because it makes installation much easier. I don't want to fiddle with databases or external applications to navigate the mess of content in order to help me. DAZ's philosophy is to scatter the goodies all over the place, and then have us do our own homework to find stuff, create our own categories etc. That is the biggest problem between DAZ and me. I just want to Make Art. I don't want to add techie pursuits to my art.
It's strange how, sometimes I think we're not all seeing the same things. I say it's a mess, and others say it's all logically organized. Oh, Richard, are you a lawyer or maybe a Tech Guru? Both of them talk pretty much the same way. I don't understand most of what they say!
To be fair, though, a lot of the content I've gotten for Daz Studio has had some of it's content in a runtime folder. I don't know if those were DS only products or hybrids. Even brand new DS users nowadays have to deal with this runtime stuff even if they've never touched Poser. Looking at my Content Library, over half of it is occupied by the Runtime folder.
It'd be a lot easier to only have one system to work with, but I think we're stuck with Content Library and Runtimes, the same way electric car makers sometimes use miles per gallon as a unit of efficiency even though it doesn't make any sense. People will probably keep saying runtime (and Poser) the way we say Kleenex, Tupperware or Hoover even though they aren't market leaders anymore.
DAZ has their textures and Support folders under the Runtime folder.
Here's my fantasy of how DAZ could finally "do it right!" DAZ needs to develop a template for how things should be organized. DAZ needs to ensure that the product description matches the contents of the product's zip files. If I buy the Red Rabbit character, all her individual content folders need to have "Red Rabbit" as part of the folder name. DAZ needs to get rid of the "vanity" folders. I love products by Stonemason, but I didn't buy Stonemason. I bought China Town. i expect to find China Town in folders with "China Town" as part of the name. If DAZ insists on using categories for stuff, they need to be consistent. I should be able to find a car or motorcycle with one click. I don't want to search, or run some utility to find it. If I buy a set of poses, I expect to find them in a folder that reflects the name of the product. If I buy Expressions, they should be found in a folder or section of content labelled Expressions. DAZ needs to give all their merchants a document describing the master plan for organizing their content.
DAZ could elminate a lot of uncessary work for their customers by taking control at the source. They need to have less emphasis on the techie aspect of Content Management, and more on forethought.