Versatility vs specificity

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Comments

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited August 2013

    Jabba101 said:
    ...Because she is based on the Genesis 2 Female base, she can share most clothing, hair and morphs with Victoria 6 and other Genesis 2 Female figures to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis...

    Well, when taken in context of the complete sentence, the ability to mix-and-match G2F shapes together is clearly the versatility to which it refers.
    Which is the limited versatility we've come to expect from the Genesis2Female, not the far greater versatility we've come to expect from Genesis -- they're two drastically different things.
    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,192
    edited August 2013

    Agreed. And because of that fact, Genesis is still the top model. It's far more versatile.

    EDITED To Add: And unless some PA comes along to bridge the gap between male and female to allow us users to mix and match male/female shapes, clothes, morphs, etc, Genesis will always be more versatile.

    Post edited by Knight22179 on
  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,192
    edited December 1969

    Today the Girl6 for G2F is out, before we see a single Genesis2 male figure from DAZ. And it also includes "to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis" in the promo blurb, even though, unlike Genesis, the G2F base was deliberately designed to exclude half of the human race and thereby gives no more than half the versatility of Genesis, if that.

    Good news is that two of the four new hairs today (why only two?) are also for Genesis and some of the Mil4s: Loyce Hair and Filippa Hair.

    At this point, B2F still has a very limited range of shapes and morphs, so I'd say it's barely a fraction of the versatility of Genesis. :)

  • ServantServant Posts: 651
    edited December 1969

    I'm surprised Girl 6 is released yet the Genesis 2 Male is still non-existent. What, is there more demand for a cartoony female than there is for a basic male figure? :blank:

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,369
    edited December 1969

    It seems like 99% of the stuff being sold for G2F is just G2F versions of what was already available for Genesis and V4.

  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,192
    edited December 1969

    BorgyB said:
    I'm surprised Girl 6 is released yet the Genesis 2 Male is still non-existent. What, is there more demand for a cartoony female than there is for a basic male figure? :blank:

    My theory is this: DAZ has changed their policy regarding figure releases. No longer is it going to be a Female then a Male release but a female only release until all of them come out. Then they will release M6 and all the males one right after another.

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,196
    edited December 1969

    Maybe just A6 to go before the Genesis 2 Male character procession, or do ya reckon there'll be S6 as well?

    ...or maybe M6 will be bundled at end of this year's September sale bonanza (for the life of me, it's official name has slipped my mind!)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 41,889
    edited December 1969

    Remember that G2M is going to be a new figure, not a shape for G2F, so the logistics are very different.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 26,632
    edited December 1969

    ...well for me G2F has become "G2Child/TeenF". After working with the Growing up Morphs and Head Morphs Resource Kit, for the last week I can say she makes an improved Kid/Teen figure.

    One thing I did notice in the G2F Body Morphs is there is a "No Breast" control that dials the chest completely flat. This was not available in the original Genesis Evolution Morphs which would have been a big help for designing petite and younger (Pre/Young Teen) characters without requiring additional body shape expansions, or a plugin to import legacy morphs.

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,196
    edited December 1969

    Remember that G2M is going to be a new figure, not a shape for G2F, so the logistics are very different.
    from what I understand, identical mesh, different rig
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 41,889
    edited December 1969

    Jabba101 said:
    Remember that G2M is going to be a new figure, not a shape for G2F, so the logistics are very different.
    from what I understand, identical mesh, different rig

    Same base mesh, but different shape presumably. As with M4/V4.

  • StorypilotStorypilot Posts: 1,541
    edited August 2013

    Just thought I'd say, for the moment, I am in no particular hurry to see G2M.

    There were some obvious distortion of clothing (especially) and shape issues that, for me, G2F has made good steps toward fixing as far as female shapes go. Not to mention that too many textures for female genesis characters were using V4 UVs and not taking advantage of the mapping improvements available in Gen 5 (plus V4 UVs didn't even work so great on genesis before the recent fix product with the better map). All in all, a situation with some lingering problems.

    However, both of these are less of an immediate problem for me on the male characters. Their general proportions are closer to the androgynous genesis than the women, less distortion, etc.

    For now, I'm happy enough for Genesis 1 to be the male counterpart to G2F. Between David 5, doses of Freak 5, muscularity, and to some extant M5 (though I do think he is just beginning to show his age a bit compared to what recent releases like D5 and Gia/Victoria 6 look like), and all the other morphs available, I'm getting male characters I'm pretty happy with. I think they look pretty great standing next to the 6th gen females. We've got some recent genesis clothing targeted primarily at men that is really top notch, and which stands up brilliantly against anything so far released for G2F. (Not a lot, but what else is new? More of that please.)

    Which is not to say my females are all G2F these days, I'm happily using Genesis 1 for certain women characters too... but I am delighted when I do want the improvements and can take advantage, and I'm glad for the release of several unique characters in a row to start to fill G2F out as a viable and flexible figure. I'd be fine to see another G2F DAZ character, maybe even another new one like Gia—a Mandy or a Kamala, what have you—before I start getting eager for G2M. Not forever, obviously.... but for the moment, I'm content to wait.

    Post edited by Storypilot on
  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 3,930
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...well for me G2F has become "G2Child/TeenF". After working with the Growing up Morphs and Head Morphs Resource Kit, for the last week I can say she makes an improved Kid/Teen figure.

    One thing I did notice in the G2F Body Morphs is there is a "No Breast" control that dials the chest completely flat. This was not available in the original Genesis Evolution Morphs which would have been a big help for designing petite and younger (Pre/Young Teen) characters without requiring additional body shape expansions, or a plugin to import legacy morphs.

    Thank you DAZ! I'd have killed for that with V4 back when I was trying to do illustrations of a crowd of 11-year-olds. And no autofit back then, either.

  • ServantServant Posts: 651
    edited August 2013


    My theory is this: DAZ has changed their policy regarding figure releases. No longer is it going to be a Female then a Male release but a female only release until all of them come out. Then they will release M6 and all the males one right after another.

    That's plausible. Not that I'm in a hurry, though. I'm perfectly content with Genesis/M5/F5/etc. (Heck, I barely had them for more than half a year!). %-P

    Looking over G6 and the samples so far, I still see no vast improvement. I have the G4 morph for Genesis, and minimal use of it combined with other basic shapes could produce similar results. Even the clothes made specifically for G2F/Girl 6 don't appear to have vast improvements over the Genesis ones (especially the ones released recently). *sigh* I'm still waiting on delivering the promise of notable improvements that made it essential to create separate male/female figures.:coolmad:

    Post edited by Servant on
  • Knight22179Knight22179 Posts: 1,192
    edited August 2013

    You and me both, BorgyB

    Post edited by Knight22179 on
  • Testing6790Testing6790 Posts: 1,091
    edited December 1969

    Man I hope G2M will be able to use G2F clothes. male models need all those skirts and halter tops desperately.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited August 2013

    Man I hope G2M will be able to use G2F clothes. male models need all those skirts and halter tops desperately.

    The real issue is the other way 'round -- both in 3D and in RealLife™, women who want to wear non-sexualized styles or are just looking for comfortable clothing are better off shopping in the men's departments. I haven't bought a woman's t-shirt in years, usually wear men's jeans 'n' sweatpants, and often wear men's shoes. Just yesterday our newest PA expressed surprise at his "male" waist-high jeans being used on female figures -- it's baffling to me how few of the people making 3D clothing seem to have looked around them on an average street and seen what most people (as opposed to just the sexy ones) are wearing.
    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 2,142
    edited December 1969

    My brother used to hate me when we both lived under the same roof.. I ALWAYS stole his shirts, his t-shirts and his jeans... *looks sheepish*

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,110
    edited December 1969

    I use male clothes on female characters and female clothes on male characters with Genesis.
    The limited support of male figures makes it very useful. There are clothes out there that help with this. Not skirts of course, but women wear more than skirts.

    BorgyB said:
    *sigh* I'm still waiting on delivering the promise of notable improvements that made it essential to create separate male/female figures.:coolmad:

    Same here.

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 3,930
    edited December 1969

    Exactly. Going back to gender-specific models is annoying. But it's a minor annoyance so long as they can wear each other's clothing.

    Of course, my problem is that I want them all to (at least) wear M4's clothing too. No one's come out with an M4 clone for G2F, and I am very curious as to whether going gender-specific means that an M4 clone for M6 still wouldn't work for G2F.

    Would they play a nasty trick like that?

  • HaslorHaslor Posts: 393
    edited December 1969

    BorgyB said:

    My theory is this: DAZ has changed their policy regarding figure releases. No longer is it going to be a Female then a Male release but a female only release until all of them come out. Then they will release M6 and all the males one right after another.

    That's plausible. Not that I'm in a hurry, though. I'm perfectly content with Genesis/M5/F5/etc. (Heck, I barely had them for more than half a year!). %-P

    Looking over G6 and the samples so far, I still see no vast improvement. I have the G4 morph for Genesis, and minimal use of it combined with other basic shapes could produce similar results. Even the clothes made specifically for G2F/Girl 6 don't appear to have vast improvements over the Genesis ones (especially the ones released recently). *sigh* I'm still waiting on delivering the promise of notable improvements that made it essential to create separate male/female figures.:coolmad:

    Again, there was an almost two year delay between Victoria 4 (released 2006-12-08) and Michael 4 (released 2008-10-20), between the two DAZ released Aiko 4 (released 2008-02-19), there was also a set of Male Morphs released before Michael. As for the release dates for the rest of the Generation 4 Actors: Hiro 4 (2009-01-29), Girl 4 (2009-03-26) The Freak 4 (2009-08-18), and Stephanie 4 (2010-06-24). (Dates are from the DAZ Product Page Wiki.)

    It does not surprise me that a character for the G2F figure would be released before the G2M Figure, because it basically a set of morphs for the G2F Figure, where the G2M figure would will have a completely different base and rigging.

    I don't think we are going to be waiting as long for G2M as we did for Michael 4.
    Haslor

  • ServantServant Posts: 651
    edited August 2013

    Haslor said:
    Again, there was an almost two year delay between Victoria 4 (released 2006-12-08) and Michael 4 (released 2008-10-20), between the two DAZ released Aiko 4 (released 2008-02-19), there was also a set of Male Morphs released before Michael. As for the release dates for the rest of the Generation 4 Actors: Hiro 4 (2009-01-29), Girl 4 (2009-03-26) The Freak 4 (2009-08-18), and Stephanie 4 (2010-06-24). (Dates are from the DAZ Product Page Wiki.)

    It does not surprise me that a character for the G2F figure would be released before the G2M Figure, because it basically a set of morphs for the G2F Figure, where the G2M figure would will have a completely different base and rigging.

    I don't think we are going to be waiting as long for G2M as we did for Michael 4.Haslor

    That's Gen 4. Also, note that you mentioned that male morphs were released for V4. I doubt we will see the same for G2F (officially, anyway, as there are freebie morphs by fans already out there).

    On that note, Gen 5 did not follow the same release schedule or pattern as Gen 4. Genesis had both the female and male basic morphs out at the same time. No lines, no waiting. V5 was released not long after. While there was a period of lull between V5 and M5, no other general Female morphs were released in between (other than what characters PAs had produced). S5, H5, F5, A5, and finally D5 (though I guess you can count YT as well) were much later.

    Does it preclude that because that separating into 2 gender specific models instead of the unified one mean the female morphs will be released first before the male model is released? IMHO, there's no logic to that. Granted, we may see the male figure sooner than Gen4 did, but that was not the point nor does it rationalize the choice of releases.

    It is quite possible that PAs, again, are influencing these choices. As these are scheduled way ahead of time in order for PAs to create items specifically catered to these morphs (as part of bundles), and by DAZ's own admission, that PAs largely influenced the Genesis gender split, one can rightly assume that this is the case.

    Post edited by Servant on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 26,632
    edited August 2013

    JOdel said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...well for me G2F has become "G2Child/TeenF". After working with the Growing up Morphs and Head Morphs Resource Kit, for the last week I can say she makes an improved Kid/Teen figure.

    One thing I did notice in the G2F Body Morphs is there is a "No Breast" control that dials the chest completely flat. This was not available in the original Genesis Evolution Morphs which would have been a big help for designing petite and younger (Pre/Young Teen) characters without requiring additional body shape expansions, or a plugin to import legacy morphs.

    Thank you DAZ! I'd have killed for that with V4 back when I was trying to do illustrations of a crowd of 11-year-olds. And no autofit back then, either.
    ...here's the first pic I did with just the base G2F, Growing Up, G2F Head Morph Resource Kit and the V4 clone (for the skin map).

    Didn't have the Body and Head Morphs yet.

    kelly_growing_up_test.jpg
    695 x 695 - 282K
    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 3,930
    edited December 1969

    Obviously I have a new guiding principle to have to contend with. Whatever the project, if you wait two years there will be better tools to accomplish it with.

    Of course you won't be able to anticipate what part of the project those better tools will be geared for, but you can't have everything.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,042
    edited December 1969

    JOdel said:
    Exactly. Going back to gender-specific models is annoying. But it's a minor annoyance so long as they can wear each other's clothing.

    Of course, my problem is that I want them all to (at least) wear M4's clothing too. No one's come out with an M4 clone for G2F, and I am very curious as to whether going gender-specific means that an M4 clone for M6 still wouldn't work for G2F.

    Would they play a nasty trick like that?

    A clone for one figure usually won't work for the other one.


    I will personally guarantee intercompatibility between G2F and G2M to the best of my ability to do so. And I am 100% sure DAZ will let me do that, because they always do (nobody over there is dumb, trust me).


    I'm not as sure about M4. Gen4--->Genesis conversion is far from perfect with all that I can do to it, although M4-->G is easier than V4-->G owing to similar base shapes.

  • JasmineSkunkJasmineSkunk Posts: 1,245
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    Nice morph. Too bad it's for the female thing instead of Genesis.

    Hahaha!!! Still wish there was a LIKE button here. :-)

    I was looking for the complainers...heeehee

    *waves* Hiya Hellboy!

  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,814
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    I use male clothes on female characters and female clothes on male characters with Genesis.
    The limited support of male figures makes it very useful. There are clothes out there that help with this. Not skirts of course, but women wear more than skirts.

    And some men do wear robes, kilts, pteruges, togas, sarongs, etc. Even in contemporary Western cultures. :)

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,110
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    Nice morph. Too bad it's for the female thing instead of Genesis.

    Hahaha!!! Still wish there was a LIKE button here. :-)

    I was looking for the complainers...heeehee

    *waves* Hiya Hellboy!

    Hi Jasmine! One of this days I was wondering what would you be doing. :)
    Basically the female thing complaints were concentrated here some months ago... still waiting for the improvements and "the versatility we came to expect from Genesis". :roll:

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,921
    edited December 1969

    I created my own Genesis 2 figure using a post here on the forums- it transferred all of my Genesis 1 morphs into Genesis 2. I also have a Genesis clone morph for G2F so all of my Genesis morphs will look correct. For example, in this image, one is Genesis 1, and the other is G2F. Mind you, I did this just for messing around. For actual renders I still use Gen4/Genesis 1.

    Sirena.jpg
    640 x 480 - 123K
  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,120
    edited December 1969

    BorgyB said:
    Haslor said:
    Again, there was an almost two year delay between Victoria 4 (released 2006-12-08) and Michael 4 (released 2008-10-20), between the two DAZ released Aiko 4 (released 2008-02-19), there was also a set of Male Morphs released before Michael. As for the release dates for the rest of the Generation 4 Actors: Hiro 4 (2009-01-29), Girl 4 (2009-03-26) The Freak 4 (2009-08-18), and Stephanie 4 (2010-06-24). (Dates are from the DAZ Product Page Wiki.)

    It does not surprise me that a character for the G2F figure would be released before the G2M Figure, because it basically a set of morphs for the G2F Figure, where the G2M figure would will have a completely different base and rigging.

    I don't think we are going to be waiting as long for G2M as we did for Michael 4.Haslor

    That's Gen 4. Also, note that you mentioned that male morphs were released for V4. I doubt we will see the same for G2F (officially, anyway, as there are freebie morphs by fans already out there).

    On that note, Gen 5 did not follow the same release schedule or pattern as Gen 4. Genesis had both the female and male basic morphs out at the same time. No lines, no waiting. V5 was released not long after. While there was a period of lull between V5 and M5, no other general Female morphs were released in between (other than what characters PAs had produced). S5, H5, F5, A5, and finally D5 (though I guess you can count YT as well) were much later.

    Does it preclude that because that separating into 2 gender specific models instead of the unified one mean the female morphs will be released first before the male model is released? IMHO, there's no logic to that. Granted, we may see the male figure sooner than Gen4 did, but that was not the point nor does it rationalize the choice of releases.

    Maybe it's just a different guy - or gal or team - working on new figures than the one working on new shapes. So that the release of new shapes does not actually slow down the creation of Genesis 2 Male.

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