Versatility vs specificity

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Comments

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited July 2013

    Speaking of transferring SheFreak 4 into Genesis, it works with my method, - the only correction in it is that you need to pose V4 as close to default Genesis as possible before converting her to WeightMapped (M4 pose is much closer to Genesis). Didn't take me long to do.
    Here is Genesis SheFreak4-1 with some other female Genesis/G2F morphs. The only small problem I got is a small distortion (not on this picture) in her collars/shoulders in some cases of posing arms up but I think bone adjustment would fix it.
    I really should have transferred SheFreak 4 sooner, her shape is very unique.

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    Post edited by Kattey on
  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,380
    edited December 1969

    Jabba101 said:
    I can buy into the "even more gender-specific detailing" polemic right up until I drop her pants... umm, where's the detail? Wait, wait, hang on, here's a plaster cast static model of just the front half of the nether regions... it's a bit like giving a kid a pretend bag of sweets then wondering why they're not happy.

    This really surprises me that they'd go with a Barbie doll mesh while claiming the new mesh was necessary to increase female anatomical accuracy and then forgo the one part of anatomy that definitely separates the boys from the girls.

    C'mon, look at the MakeHuman mesh. They've built a unimesh that can accurately produce BOTH set of genials, male and female. The clitoris can morph into a penis, the labia can morph into testicles. There's really no reason why Daz can't produce a unimesh with genital morph capabilities built right into the mesh.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,840
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Concerning Gia, the thought crossed my mind that not everyone is going to want to buy V6 and the muscle and body morphs to get a muscular female character but with Gia they can have that styled character at a lower cost.

    I... don't follow the logic here. The Body Morphs for Genesis 2 Female are (off sale) $20. Genesis 2 works with the V5 uv's. So I can do a muscular female character using Genesis 2 Female without spending $40 (off sale) for Gia. Yes, getting Gia is cheaper than getting V6 and the body morphs, but I don't need V6 to use Genesis 2 Female.

    That said, I've decided to see Gia, Victoria 6, and the ladies to follow as the next stage of progression in the Elite series, along the same lines as Reby Sky. With her you got a full body morph and a skin texture. Gia and V6 add a UV map designed to take advantage of their specific shape. With the rest of the original Elite line, the Morphs were sold (in small bundles) separately from the $30 (off sale) skin textures. The progression makes sense to me.

    Not that I'm in any hurry to switch. As people keep pointing out, Genesis still works just fine on my machine.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,926
    edited July 2013

    Kattey said:
    Speaking of transferring SheFreak 4 into Genesis, it works with my method, - the only correction in it is that you need to pose V4 as close to default Genesis as possible before converting her to WeightMapped (M4 pose is much closer to Genesis). Didn't take me long to do.
    Here is Genesis SheFreak4-1 with some other female Genesis/G2F morphs. The only small problem I got is a small distortion (not on this picture) in her collars/shoulders in some cases of posing arms up but I think bone adjustment would fix it.
    I really should have transferred SheFreak 4 sooner, her shape is very unique.

    Very nice!

    I just got SheFreak to Gen the easy way with GenX and transferred them all at once using 'selected morphs'. There's some differences, and I had to add in some more ab definition to GenFreak using the muscularity morphs, but all in all I'd say she looks ok. There's some differences with the breast shape too, but I didn't dig into it that far yet.

    SheFreak on the left, GenFreak on the right. Using Body 1 and Thraso's head.

    /edit
    On second look, she needs more leg definition also.

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    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    On second look, she needs more leg definition also.

    Free RAMWolff's Genesis morphs have some very awesome morphs for definition details, have you look in there?
    Also I used some Finess/Bodybuilder definitions, seems to work rather well.
  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,926
    edited July 2013

    Kattey said:
    On second look, she needs more leg definition also.

    Free RAMWolff's Genesis morphs have some very awesome morphs for definition details, have you look in there?
    Also I used some Finess/Bodybuilder definitions, seems to work rather well.

    Oh, I've got the muscularity morphs from the store for Genesis, I just wasn't paying close enough attention when I was working on her. lol

    I do have all of Ram's morphs for G2F, though. About the only morphs I have for that chick.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    I'm also finding that if you dial a moprh about 105% it saves small definition better but I don't know if Gen-X allows you to do this.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,926
    edited July 2013

    Kattey said:
    I'm also finding that if you dial a moprh about 105% it saves small definition better but I don't know if Gen-X allows you to do this.

    I can just turn off limits in the parameters.

    /edit
    Adding in extra just bulks her up more without adding any real extra definition. I'll just do it manually through the muscle morphs and save a shape preset or a controller morph.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,120
    edited December 1969

    Surprising how now that people see a female shape, the can't envision it doing anything the androgynous one did, where previously people in the beginning couldn't see how that androgynous shape couldn't be a female.

    Maybe they're different people.

    It really doesn’t seem like anything new is being said.

    Than maybe it's because some people are very passionate about that point and feel as if they're not heard.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 5,415
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Concerning Gia, the thought crossed my mind that not everyone is going to want to buy V6 and the muscle and body morphs to get a muscular female character but with Gia they can have that styled character at a lower cost.

    I... don't follow the logic here. The Body Morphs for Genesis 2 Female are (off sale) $20. Genesis 2 works with the V5 uv's. So I can do a muscular female character using Genesis 2 Female without spending $40 (off sale) for Gia. Yes, getting Gia is cheaper than getting V6 and the body morphs, but I don't need V6 to use Genesis 2 Female.

    True but G2F is more of a generic shape then Gia or V6. G2F is nice as a base shape but Gia's shape is far more defined.

  • dan.shivedan.shive Posts: 0
    edited July 2013

    Barubary said:
    dan.shive said:
    It really doesn’t seem like anything new is being said.

    Than maybe it's because some people are very passionate about that point and feel as if they're not heard.
    That much is obvious. Granted, they're posting in forums that the people in charge presumably don't bother reading and the decisions are ultimately going to be based on revenue, so that feeling's probably pretty accurate.

    Post edited by dan.shive on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2013

    So I shall share a quickie render of G2F with no acutal G2F morphs (other than the V4 morph for G2F). Mostly V4 morphs actually. I think I used a small amount of 1 Genesis morph, but I don't recall....

    Yep, her waist is too thing for "Real" and other issues with her arm muscle structure and such. But for a fantasy warrior woman that didn't actually cost me any new funds, well, not too bad. and she was quick to dial in.

    no SSS or anything fancy like that either. Crap, i hope i'm still on topic. lol

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  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,927
    edited December 1969

    I've already said what I needed to about the new figure. I wouldn't be posting at all except that I've had a response from my general feedback that I thought might shed light on the situation.

    The reason why Genesis 2 was split into two separate gender bases is simple, quality.

    We learned after more than a year of content development on the original Genesis platform that it became a “lowest common denominator” for some PAs who developed content that did not include gender specific details.

    The result was often clothing that did not look or work well on either the Gen 5 male or female figures due to the differences in the mesh and textures. Artifacts appeared such as stretching in the textures across the breasts on the females or extra/unnecessary geometry across the breasts, hips or glutes of the male.

    By splitting the two bases, DAZ and PAs are able to develop content that is quite simply of significantly higher quality because it takes advantage of and leverages those gender specific details that are inherently realistic in the human figure.

    DAZ will continue to work on ways to make DAZ content and enable PA content that is of the highest possible quality while enabling the versatility customers have come to enjoy due to the power of the Genesis platform.

    It is possible that DAZ could enable the cross-gender versatility of Genesis 2 content by making use of opposite gender clones in autofit that would give the same kind of cross-gender versatility while preserving the gender specific quality on the figure for which the content was created.

    As always DAZ strives to create the highest quality AND most versatile figures available.

    I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions...it's a pity that someone from DAZ didn't post this to stop speculation. Much thanks goes to the person from DAZ who took the time to reply to my general feedback on Zendesk.

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,120
    edited December 1969

    dan.shive said:
    Barubary said:
    dan.shive said:
    It really doesn’t seem like anything new is being said.

    Than maybe it's because some people are very passionate about that point and feel as if they're not heard.


    That much is obvious. Granted, they're posting in forums that the people in charge presumably don't bother reading and the decisions are ultimately going to be based on revenue, so that feeling's probably pretty accurate.


    HA, yeah, I guess you're right :D

    But I guess for many of us, it still feels better to voice our opinions anywhere than nowhere at all. And if the powers that be even take the smallest bit of input from the forums, it's still not a complete waste.

    The thing is, revenue only tells you so much. But on occasion you need some qualitative date to back up you quantitative information ^^

  • DZ_jaredDZ_jared Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    The point of this thread is to discuss the merits of a Gender specific figure vs the merits of a completely unimesh figure. Obviously each has their pro's and cons. The best part is that here at DAZ we have both. The Genesis 1 figure isn't disappearing, and as long as there is a market for Gensis content then I'm sure PA's will deliver. At the same time there are those who require a gender specific base for what they are trying to do, the splitting the base figures accomplishes that. The decision to do separate male and female bases wasn't one that was made lightly. It was made after consulting PA's, and listening to customer feedback. The gender specific base allows the female figures to have rigging that is optimized for a female figure, the same is true for the male. Content creators can create morphs that are gender specific rather than losing detail by trying to make them fit for both male and female. Clothing fits better, and looks better when it is built on a gender specific base.

    The Gia description was not a jab at those who prefer Genesis to Genesis 2 Female. We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile, you will be able to combine her morph with other Genesis 2 Female morphs, and you will be able to use other Genesis 2 Female clothing and textures on her.

    As for the phrase "most clothing, hair and textures" in the description, the most is there because not all G2F clothing items will have custom fit morphs for Gia. PA's decide which figures they will include custom fit morphs for. When a clothing item doesn't have a specific custom fit morph Studio will auto-project the morph (if you use the DSON importer you can use the 'transfer active morphs' function). These auto-projected morphs are usually fine, however that is not always the case. It would be presumptuous of us to assume that ALL future clothing for G2F will work perfectly on Gia. I can guarantee that you will be able to at the very least fit all clothing to G2F and get an auto-projected fit morph for Gia. In most cases it will look just fine. Gia also has her own optimized UV set. You can apply textures with other UV sets, but those UV sets aren't optimized for Gia, and you may get some stretching in the texture. That stretching won't be noticeable to most though. Finally props don't auto-follow morphs. If someone were to make a G2F hair that was a static prop, instead of conforming hair the hair might not work with Gia. These issues aren't new to Gia and existed with Genesis as well.

    I hope we can begin talking about the merits of both Genesis and G2F, as well as discussing any of the drawbacks. We at DAZ are interested in providing the highest quality figures we can, and any feedback is welcome and appreciated.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,138
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_jared said:
    We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile

    By saying she's as versatile as Genesis? Is that a good idea considering Genesis is WAY more varsatile?

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited July 2013

    Hi, Jared
    Thank you for taking time to participate in this thread.

    The Genesis 1 figure isn’t disappearing, and as long as there is a market for Gensis content then I’m sure PA’s will deliver.
    In this case where, if I may ask, official G2F clone for Genesis? There is one currently in a making by PA (which, while appreciated, will cost users money) but G2F had a Genesis clone 1) in Essentials, 2) from the start, 3) provided by DAZ3D themselves 4) for no cost. If DAZ3D still cares for support for Genesis, why did they neglect to create even a reverse bridge from newer figure to older, - thus losing money, because people who stick with Genesis won't buy G2F clothes from the very DAZ3D store because DAZ3D is the only place that sells 95% of Genesis and 100% of G2F addons?
    More than that, DAZ3D asked to remove a free (and properly RTEncoded) G2F to Genesis clone which wasn't usable or even accessible without a base product from DAZ3D store. I don't really see how is that contributes to Genesis support.

    DAZ_jared said:
    The gender specific base allows the female figures to have rigging that is optimized for a female figure, the same is true for the male.
    I made some experiments and moved G2F rigging and weightmapping back into original Genesis mesh, so G2F and Genesis moved and bent in completely same way. The resulting figure doesn't bend or move in any way that shows its, supposed, all-female nature - in fact, with Genesis morphs this rigging/weightmapping creates a realistic manly male with better but still _non gender-specific_ bends. Same situation happened when Genesis male morphs were transferred to G2F to use with existing original Genesis clone within it - with male morphs G2F rigging/weightmapping creates a male who walks like male and bends like a male.
    So for now I didn't see any proof that G2F rigging, while improved, is actually _gender-specific_, like it is affected by a female center of gravity She still bends and moves in unisex way although her initial and the only female shape might prevent it to be seen clearly.

    Content creators can create morphs that are gender specific rather than losing detail by trying to make them fit for both male and female.
    As another my experiment shown, it is quite possible to create two versions (male and female) of a similar morph in case if different gender versions are needed for the same unisex base (different muscularity, for example). Splitting morphs onto two gendered figures not only prevents free mix and match of those morphs, effectively halving Genepool (what if I wish to use male face on slight percentage on G2F for unique look? I can't), and not only makes morphs twice as expensive for people who want to use both genders, but also make some morphs exclusive to one platform unless a user wishes go through loops of manual transfer or use an expensive 3rd party plugin to make them available for both. It is throwback to Generation 4 model and it isn't improvement.

    Clothing fits better, and looks better when it is built on a gender specific base.


    While it might be true for various female skimpwear that sexually highlights female shape (currently new G2F wardrobe consists from about 70% of such), the very idea that female figure can't easily wear the clothes that are unisex, men or modest (i.e. mostly made for G2M or previous unisex base of Genesis or male figure) without going through the same autofit/transfer process that kills details in the first place or paying for the extra copy like it was with Generation 4, makes gender split highly undesirable for users. Also, Genesis clothes had the same amount of details as newer ones, because judging from G2F releases the quality of fit around breasts, for example, didn't improve at all as boobsacks still persist on recently released Dark Winds Outfit and Hot Cabana Wear - in a _default_ G2F shape. The Jogger is especially good example of this because the level of details on both Genesis and G2F version is the same and there is no improvement in it comparatively with Stephanie Petite 5 Cool Sports outfit as Cool Sports had many custom fits but The Jogger has none.
    And I don't see how this situation will change. Most of PAs still don't supply custom morphs for breast hugging, instead relying on autofollowing, and until DAZ3D will made it an absolute QA standard that decides the acceptance of a product in the store, they have no much urgency or need to improve their own standards. Same vendors who already had high standards will (hopefully) stick to them but they did custom fits for unisex Genesis and V4 anyway.

    What DAZ3D had to do, instead of splitting the base into two genders, is to make/improve DS tools which would allow to create a shape-specific morphs easier and also improve fitting process of autofit/transfer utility. Because, gender split didn't fix anything in this respect as it can be seen from many new products of the store where G2F items still have boobsacks even in default G2F shape, not mentioning additional morphs. The very problem G2F was supposed to fix wasn't fixed and clothes still fit very inadequately, even on female shape.

    The Gia description was not a jab at those who prefer Genesis to Genesis 2 Female.


    Then she shouldn't be compared to Genesis' versatility, because Genesis will always have more versatility than gender-split figures. Even if the line wasn't intentional jab (which I believe because after pearls such as 'Jesus hopping Christ on the pogo stick' I'd believe in any sort of blunder), this line was simply not stating things correctly and should instead recall Victoria 4 because Victoria 4 is the same principle G2F uses.
    G2F can't use male or kids UVs and textures from Generation 4 or 5 (Mike 5), like Genesis could, can't use (without PA support) even V4 UVs and even with this support G2F has to go through small bother of converting V4 matposes to duf. G2F is cut significantly in the basic functionality, making it very unfriendly to many users, and new morphpacks and UVs like Gia won't cover this gap.

    I hope we can begin talking about the merits of both Genesis and G2F, as well as discussing any of the drawbacks.
    We tried. We were told by forum moderators we had to stop repeating ourselves.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • DZ_jaredDZ_jared Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile

    By saying she's as versatile as Genesis? Is that a good idea considering Genesis is WAY more varsatile?

    The description doesn't explicitly state Gia is as versatile as Genesis, though I can see how the wording could be interpreted that way. It also depends on your definition of versatility. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but the general consensus of this thread is that versatility comes from an androgynous mesh. (I hope I'm not oversimplifying here). Is G2F as versatile as Genesis in this regard, well obviously not. However, G2F has other features that make her versatile that Genesis enjoyed, such as being able to share clothing between, mixing morphs, sharing UV sets etc. The product description was speaking more to latter rather than the former.

  • AmeesaAmeesa Posts: 282
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_jared said:

    *snip*

    However, G2F has other features that make her versatile that Genesis enjoyed, such as being able to share clothing between, mixing morphs, sharing UV sets etc. The product description was speaking more to latter rather than the former.

    Wasn't that what we had with V4, minus the weight mapping?

  • IppotamusIppotamus Posts: 1,451
    edited December 1969

    The Genesis 1 figure isn’t disappearing, and as long as there is a market for Genesis content then I’m sure PA’s will deliver.

    Balderdash! You can go to the store page and see that is simply not true. Releases are running 2 to 1 in favor of Genesis 2 exclusive (no Genesis 1 versions available), just as many of us predicted and faster than we feared. It is obvious most PA's can not or will not support two versions, and it is only going to get worse as many of the Genesis products were already in development before DAZ just dropped this bomb on us.

    DAZ can try to put this off on PA support or customer support of markets if DAZ likes. But this is a situation created by DAZ and all in the name of some mythical versatility and improvement that I have to wear my special glasses to see.

    Anywho, the dice are cast. DAZ's course is set, and as I said in my original and mod deleted post ... I have no illusions of my over importance as a single customer. You have plenty of more versatile and possibly gender specific customers, it is clear. So I shall bid DAZ a nice day and get on my way again.

    Have a nice day.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,138
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile

    By saying she's as versatile as Genesis? Is that a good idea considering Genesis is WAY more varsatile?

    The description doesn't explicitly state Gia is as versatile as Genesis

    "to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis."

    I could be wrong, but it totally sounds to me that way.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    edited July 2013

    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile

    By saying she's as versatile as Genesis? Is that a good idea considering Genesis is WAY more varsatile?

    The description doesn't explicitly state Gia is as versatile as Genesis
    "to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis."
    I could be wrong, but it totally sounds to me that way.
    It sounds to me like it's saying that Gia plus V6 make the Genesis2Female as versatile as Genesis -- which is even more disingenuous, since with its female/male/child base shapes Genesis was far more versatile on the day of its release than the Genesis2Female ever has any hope of being. As Ameesa pointed out above (and she's only the latest to do so, since it's a bit obvious), this is a step backwards to the old-tech divide of having the female characters on a female base figure and the male characters on a male base figure, except with weight-mapping this time. There's no technological reason requiring this, and the ones that have been claimed could've been resolved far better by DAZ providing the PAs with better clothing creation tools, not by gender-splitting the base.
    Post edited by KickAir 8P on
  • AmeesaAmeesa Posts: 282
    edited July 2013

    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    Hellboy said:
    DAZ_jared said:
    We were trying to make the point that Gia will be versatile

    By saying she's as versatile as Genesis? Is that a good idea considering Genesis is WAY more varsatile?

    The description doesn't explicitly state Gia is as versatile as Genesis

    "to give you the versatility you have come to expect from Genesis."
    I could be wrong, but it totally sounds to me that way.
    It sounds to me like it's saying that Gia plus V6 make the Genesis2Female as versatile as Genesis -- which is even more disingenuous, since with its female/male/child base shapes Genesis was far more versatile on the day of its release than the Genesis2Female ever has any hope of being. As Ameesa pointed out above (and she's only the latest to do so, since it's a bit obvious), this is a step backwards to the old-tech divide of having the female characters on a female base figure and the male characters on a male base figure, except with weight-mapping this time. There's no technological reason requiring this, and the ones that have been claimed could've been resolved far better by DAZ providing the PAs with better clothing creation tools, not by gender-splitting the base.

    I was actually planning to be more sarcastic then I came across, I'm at work and got busy. What bothers me, is they go through this entire thing of Genesis, telling us essentially it's the best thing since sliced bread, split the community in half between Poser and DS users, fractioned the community even further between Genesis and G2F, and now we should be happy cause we're sent back to V4 gender spiltting square one? They should have just made seperate weight mapped figures for each application (which is very obviously possible), called them Gen5, then throw in Genesis original as toy DS users could play with.

    Post edited by Ameesa on
  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,749
    edited July 2013

    DAZ_jared said:
    The gender specific base allows the female figures to have rigging that is optimized for a female figure, the same is true for the male. Content creators can create morphs that are gender specific rather than losing detail by trying to make them fit for both male and female.
    But did it really have to be on gender-specific bases? Like others say, most morphs on both G1 and G2F are pretty universal and the ones that are gender specific were said to have calculations optimized to the custom character they belong to. This is what was originally explained back at V5's launch. The Genesis Morph Transfer Thread showed that Genesis 2 can be perfectly customized to unimesh and still be morphed with realistically detail characters on top of it. In all honesty, V6 and Gia 6 just feel like PA custom characters for an updated, gender-stuck Basic Female shape the same way how Gabi and Tori were for V5, V5 herself being a shape for a more general figure base, you know, kind of like a GENESIS point.

    Also, the fact that this causes the need for special morph support for each gender is what's leaving the biggest knot in my stomach. Who here can really promise that the Genesis 2 Male base will receive the same amount as the female counterpart? As we all know, we never got a David 4 Elite for the M4 base the same way V4 got Stephanie 4 Elite with all her special proportion parameters. Then Genesis comes out and the first Gen 3 character we got for it after getting all the Gen 4 Icons was David. I PM'ed MallenLane directly, asking why there was never a D4, and the only thing that was said on the matter was simply: "Because I didn't feel like a D4 was needed. M4 already had H4 and F4 to blend with." The problem wasn't because the sales for David were bad, hell, according to the D3 for Genesis product listing, David is pretty popular. The reason why we never got a D4 was merely because of the PA opinion that such support wasn't needed. From what I was told by others after I become more active on the forums was that here was actually quite a vocal inquiry for him after S4E was released, only to be met with silence from any PA or DAZ representative. What is supposed to make me feel rest assured that G2M won't get thrown under the bus the same way Millennium Man 4 was?

    I hope we can begin talking about the merits of both Genesis and G2F, as well as discussing any of the drawbacks. We at DAZ are interested in providing the highest quality figures we can, and any feedback is welcome and appreciated.


    But what's the best way to do that, though? Zendesk? Here at the Forums? A lot of members here say that we're actually wasting our time talking about these kinds of things because the company doesn't frequent the Forums, that the only way to really make a statement is through buying certain items and not buying certain others. But I know that method won't work because it will always be overshadowed the silent majority who keeps buying nothing but females and their rehashed fantasy slutware.
    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 28,490
    edited December 1969

    I think Jared wants to talk to you in this thread, is why this was split out from the other thread in order to ffacilitate the conversation.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 5,415
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    I've already said what I needed to about the new figure. I wouldn't be posting at all except that I've had a response from my general feedback that I thought might shed light on the situation.

    The reason why Genesis 2 was split into two separate gender bases is simple, quality.

    We learned after more than a year of content development on the original Genesis platform that it became a “lowest common denominator” for some PAs who developed content that did not include gender specific details.

    The result was often clothing that did not look or work well on either the Gen 5 male or female figures due to the differences in the mesh and textures. Artifacts appeared such as stretching in the textures across the breasts on the females or extra/unnecessary geometry across the breasts, hips or glutes of the male.

    By splitting the two bases, DAZ and PAs are able to develop content that is quite simply of significantly higher quality because it takes advantage of and leverages those gender specific details that are inherently realistic in the human figure.

    DAZ will continue to work on ways to make DAZ content and enable PA content that is of the highest possible quality while enabling the versatility customers have come to enjoy due to the power of the Genesis platform.

    It is possible that DAZ could enable the cross-gender versatility of Genesis 2 content by making use of opposite gender clones in autofit that would give the same kind of cross-gender versatility while preserving the gender specific quality on the figure for which the content was created.

    As always DAZ strives to create the highest quality AND most versatile figures available.

    I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions...it's a pity that someone from DAZ didn't post this to stop speculation. Much thanks goes to the person from DAZ who took the time to reply to my general feedback on Zendesk.


    I am just quoting this incase anyone missed it. We only have one half of Genesis 2 at the moment so it really unfair to judge and compare versus other figures. I have highlighted a section that I feel deserves attention.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,840
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Pendraia said:
    I've already said what I needed to about the new figure. I wouldn't be posting at all except that I've had a response from my general feedback that I thought might shed light on the situation.

    The reason why Genesis 2 was split into two separate gender bases is simple, quality.

    We learned after more than a year of content development on the original Genesis platform that it became a “lowest common denominator” for some PAs who developed content that did not include gender specific details.

    The result was often clothing that did not look or work well on either the Gen 5 male or female figures due to the differences in the mesh and textures. Artifacts appeared such as stretching in the textures across the breasts on the females or extra/unnecessary geometry across the breasts, hips or glutes of the male.

    By splitting the two bases, DAZ and PAs are able to develop content that is quite simply of significantly higher quality because it takes advantage of and leverages those gender specific details that are inherently realistic in the human figure.

    DAZ will continue to work on ways to make DAZ content and enable PA content that is of the highest possible quality while enabling the versatility customers have come to enjoy due to the power of the Genesis platform.

    It is possible that DAZ could enable the cross-gender versatility of Genesis 2 content by making use of opposite gender clones in autofit that would give the same kind of cross-gender versatility while preserving the gender specific quality on the figure for which the content was created.

    As always DAZ strives to create the highest quality AND most versatile figures available.

    I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions...it's a pity that someone from DAZ didn't post this to stop speculation. Much thanks goes to the person from DAZ who took the time to reply to my general feedback on Zendesk.


    I am just quoting this incase anyone missed it. We only have one half of Genesis 2 at the moment so it really unfair to judge and compare versus other figures. I have highlighted a section that I feel deserves attention.

    Yes. Possible Until GM2 comes out... when we have to buy the basic body morphs all over again because they split the figure, we don't know if anyone is going to bother making G2M to G2F (and vice versa) clones. From what I've seen with Genesis 2 Female, I don't think DAZ is going to make such clones. I think we're going to have to depend on vendors like SickleYield and MallenLane to provide them (or making them ourselves). After all, it is only because MallenLane saw the value of having the V4 UV and Shape on Genesis 2F that we even have that. DAZ wasn't going to do it at all. Do you really think that they'll do cross-gender clones, when clearly they don't have to?

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited July 2013

    Mattymanx said:

    I am just quoting this incase anyone missed it. We only have one half of Genesis 2 at the moment so it really unfair to judge and compare versus other figures. I have highlighted a section that I feel deserves attention.

    I think what is unfair is that we have a zero official information about how G2F and G2M are supposed to work together, despite the first half of 'Genesis' 2 is out and some planning should be already done for this sort of long-running project. Keeping all this information to themselves DAZ3D doesn't make the situation better.

    There was zero of official technical information on G2F either, except of some vague promo blurb statements like "She has gender-specific rigging now!" (which is, so far, not confirmed by any sort of testing) and "She has more polygons" (on where they are MallenLane gave most of information but it is hardly the same level as an official statement). Official communication on all technical aspects on G2F was exactly zero, and I don't see how it is going to change for G2M, because, personally to me, this appears to be a new policy - just pictures and hype blurbs without any actual technical proofs. And because DAZ3D didn't bother to release official G2F clone for Genesis I personally don't think that comparability and good transfer of stuff even between two 'Genesis' 2 base models would be their priority if in plans at all, and I'm unwilling to support figures with such dismal level of official DAZ3D support in terms of comparability. I don't want to rely on a mercy of PAs who might (or might not) make what I need to have a fully functional 'Genesis' 2 with a level of comparability at least close to what Genesis has right now.

    Miracle might happen, and speculations might run wild, but currently I judge G2F on a basis of what she can do right now. And she can't do much, I'm afraid.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    Still waiting on G2F clothing that works better than V4 or Genesis clothing.

  • HellboyHellboy Posts: 1,138
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Pendraia said:
    I've already said what I needed to about the new figure. I wouldn't be posting at all except that I've had a response from my general feedback that I thought might shed light on the situation.

    The reason why Genesis 2 was split into two separate gender bases is simple, quality.

    We learned after more than a year of content development on the original Genesis platform that it became a “lowest common denominator” for some PAs who developed content that did not include gender specific details.

    The result was often clothing that did not look or work well on either the Gen 5 male or female figures due to the differences in the mesh and textures. Artifacts appeared such as stretching in the textures across the breasts on the females or extra/unnecessary geometry across the breasts, hips or glutes of the male.

    By splitting the two bases, DAZ and PAs are able to develop content that is quite simply of significantly higher quality because it takes advantage of and leverages those gender specific details that are inherently realistic in the human figure.

    DAZ will continue to work on ways to make DAZ content and enable PA content that is of the highest possible quality while enabling the versatility customers have come to enjoy due to the power of the Genesis platform.

    It is possible that DAZ could enable the cross-gender versatility of Genesis 2 content by making use of opposite gender clones in autofit that would give the same kind of cross-gender versatility while preserving the gender specific quality on the figure for which the content was created.

    As always DAZ strives to create the highest quality AND most versatile figures available.

    I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions...it's a pity that someone from DAZ didn't post this to stop speculation. Much thanks goes to the person from DAZ who took the time to reply to my general feedback on Zendesk.


    I am just quoting this incase anyone missed it. We only have one half of Genesis 2 at the moment so it really unfair to judge and compare versus other figures. I have highlighted a section that I feel deserves attention.

    I don’t doubt it is possible both Genesis 2 bases share their own clothing, considering Genesis can wear Generation 3, 4 and all Genesis characters content in one single figure. Probably by spending more in some item like the V4 Uvs and V4 Autofit option for this female base.

    But that possibility doesn’t say that much, and probably that’s why it was missed (ignored).

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