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Active Pose Jump?

marblemarble Posts: 7,449
in The Commons

I don't remember this happening in previous years but I've noticed a problem with Active Pose recently - I mean the tool that pins body parts and uses IK to move the body as a whole. The problem is that I set up the starting position precisely and then - as I click using the tool - the limbs (hands and or feet especially) jump a little out of position. No point in fixing the starting point again because the jump will happen again. Moreover, if I let go during the movement and click again: another jump. Very annoying.

I only do short animations and I've only recently started doing them again, but I thought the tools would have improved, not become worse.

Comments

  • CGI3DMCGI3DM Posts: 276
    marble said:

    I don't remember this happening in previous years but I've noticed a problem with Active Pose recently - I mean the tool that pins body parts and uses IK to move the body as a whole. The problem is that I set up the starting position precisely and then - as I click using the tool - the limbs (hands and or feet especially) jump a little out of position. No point in fixing the starting point again because the jump will happen again. Moreover, if I let go during the movement and click again: another jump. Very annoying.

    I only do short animations and I've only recently started doing them again, but I thought the tools would have improved, not become worse.

    I think the problem is with genesis 8.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449

    I don't have Genesis 8 characters (except for Grandmother and she's not in this scene). No, this was with both G3F and G3M characters.

     

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401

    Greetings,

    This happens on and off for me also.  I vaguely recall figuring out a solution (or being told one) years ago, but I have forgotten it, and the problem has returned.

    --  Morgan

     

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    This happens on and off for me also.  I vaguely recall figuring out a solution (or being told one) years ago, but I have forgotten it, and the problem has returned.

    --  Morgan

     

    Ah, in that case I must have not noticed it in previous years but I don't do a lot of animations so that's possible.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    FWIW, it works, as supposed to, with Genesis1. I'm using 4.9.2.70 and the 4.10 public beta.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,155

    Check your Manipulation DrawStyle. Here is the Daz documentation on it. At some point some of this was reorganized and renamed a bit in the DS interface. I'm not at that computer now, so I can't check the current accuracy of the documentation, but I think you will be able to understand what it is saying. Is this the behavior you are experiencing.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    barbult said:

    Check your Manipulation DrawStyle. Here is the Daz documentation on it. At some point some of this was reorganized and renamed a bit in the DS interface. I'm not at that computer now, so I can't check the current accuracy of the documentation, but I think you will be able to understand what it is saying. Is this the behavior you are experiencing.

    Thanks - I'm not at the computer at the moment but I'll check when I am. FWIW I rarely (very rarely) use IRay in the viewport because it slows down posing so much. Add a character with fibermesh hair and it almost freezes. So I use Texture Shaded and it seems clear that the draw style must have "Use Current" active because it doesn't change when I move a body part. So I'll experiment a little and see it it makes a difference but I'm not sure why it should only affect Active Pose. Normal manipluation has no jumps although mouse control has become a bit iffy after some recent updates. Especially controlling the camera or selecting from the Scene object tree (click on one and get multiple selected).

    I sometimes wonder whether I'm unusual in doing a lot of my own posing. I do use commercial poses but only as convenient starting points - then I spend a lot of time getting the pose just right. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449

    Update on this. I did try playing with the Manipulation Draw settings but I can't see that anything I did made a difference. I'm also wonderig what the Active Pose tool stiffness settings do as I can't find any information about them.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,154

    you can take this for what its worth

    I have this issue all the time &  I never had any luck using the Manipulation DrawStyle to keep things from jumping around.  My solution was disable the IK then bake my character animations to the timeline for each pose for each individual keyframe which keeps the character at that keyframe.  it also helps sometimes if I I have pins enabled or disabled the pins in offending part of the body that is causing things to jump during the pose cycle.. Sometimes it helps with characters jumping during poses process sometimes not..  this happens mostly especially if you use sub tracks, I'm not sure why maybe because of the different poses angles.   I also have this issue trying to save or create a aniblock that have correction motions on subtracks . even then sometimes even after doing all these steps your character will jump position occasionally  I found most jumps accurse because of the animation on the subtrack.

    I always found it helpful to start my animations in the center position of the  scene if you can, so you can return the character back to the original position if it does jump by returning the character back to the default locations where you started.

    Daz definitely needs a better inverse Kinematics system to enable and disable  Ik and pins  take these steps Edit>Figure> inverse Kinematics > from there you will see the check boxes for enabling and disabling the IK and pins . I try that first

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    Ivy said:

    you can take this for what its worth

    I have this issue all the time &  I never had any luck using the Manipulation DrawStyle to keep things from jumping around.  My solution was disable the IK then bake my character animations to the timeline for each pose for each individual keyframe which keeps the character at that keyframe.  it also helps sometimes if I I have pins enabled or disabled the pins in offending part of the body that is causing things to jump during the pose cycle.. Sometimes it helps with characters jumping during poses process sometimes not..  this happens mostly especially if you use sub tracks, I'm not sure why maybe because of the different poses angles.   I also have this issue trying to save or create a aniblock that have correction motions on subtracks . even then sometimes even after doing all these steps your character will jump position occasionally  I found most jumps accurse because of the animation on the subtrack.

    I always found it helpful to start my animations in the center position of the  scene if you can, so you can return the character back to the original position if it does jump by returning the character back to the default locations where you started.

    Daz definitely needs a better inverse Kinematics system to enable and disable  Ik and pins  take these steps Edit>Figure> inverse Kinematics > from there you will see the check boxes for enabling and disabling the IK and pins . I try that first

    Thanks but the only reason I use the Active Pose tool is for the IK and pins (or perhaps I'm not understanding the whole concept at all). The idea is that I don't have to adjust a long chain of bones individually if, for example, I want a figure to squat from standing. If there is some other way to do that then I'd love to know.

    At the moment I'm trying to fix the jumping about (usualy it is a small jump, not to some other part of the screen) with the Graph Editor (GraphMate) I bought a long time ago but am only now discovering its value. I use KeyMate all the time but need to play with sub-tracks some more because I think they might be very useful.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,154
    edited June 2018

    If your using Pose to pose presets, aniblocks or importing BHV motions files  I would disable the IK and enable the pins to see if that solves your problem . I have been making animations with daz studio a long time. I have tons of them in Iray and 3dl.  and that was the best way to correct the jumping around and yes they are just minor but still very annoying jumps. if your hand keyframeing your animation then yes you need to keep the IK enabled. but I never had jumping issues by hand keyframing. &  I would start your animation in the center of the daz floor so you can return to the original position before the jump happens. like I said the inverse Kinematics system in daz is really messed up and needs improvements

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,154
    edited June 2018

    here is my latest animations and this was full of those jump issues when creating it, but only when I was using aniblocks . not when I was hand keyframing. so turning off the ik solved that issue for me. But like I said take it for what its worth.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    Ivy said:

    here is my latest animations and this was full of those jump issues when creating it, but only when I was using aniblocks . not when I was hand keyframing. so turning off the ik solved that issue for me. But like I said take it for what its worth.

     

    Appreciated, Ivy. I'm nowhere near as sophisticated as you are. I just do quick loops and keyframe them by hand. Occasionally I'll make an aniblock from something I've done but it is rarely called for. I'm not doing it for making movies - more like a little animated Gif (except that I use Jpeg image series to create the animation). I do stories with a set of stills - like a comic - but add a little animation if I can to make it more interesting. On that subject, I'd love to know if there is a way to insert an animation into a comic strip - I use Comic Life 3 which is fine but has no ability to import animations or video clips.

    So, getting back to the IK problem - yes, I do need IK for my purposes so I guess I'll have to wait until DAZ fix it (ROFL). Or learn to do it in Blender.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,154
    edited June 2018

    yesn I like to make gif too.  one thing for sure your right the jumping is annoying anyway you slice it  ..lol

    When I make web comics, I usually post them as a video so I can mix in gifs in with them .like this charmed one I did a while back

     

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • InkuboInkubo Posts: 744

    It's quite typical for me that selecting a body part with the Active Pose tool will make body parts jump out of place. After you get accustomed to the behavior, you get used to a routine of pressing the mouse button, waiting a half-second, pressing Ctrl-Z if the jump happens, and then going on with the intended drag. But don't read that as "suck it up, buttercup": it's still a problem DAZ should fix.

    You know, this may have the same cause as the Jumping Viewport problem. It's like DS has a bug that calculates a wild delta for the first mouse-move report of a drag operation and then acts on it, whatever it is, instead of throwing out the bad report. It may be calculating the initial delta based on saved coordinates which are invalid.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    Inkubo said:

    It's quite typical for me that selecting a body part with the Active Pose tool will make body parts jump out of place. After you get accustomed to the behavior, you get used to a routine of pressing the mouse button, waiting a half-second, pressing Ctrl-Z if the jump happens, and then going on with the intended drag. But don't read that as "suck it up, buttercup": it's still a problem DAZ should fix.

    You know, this may have the same cause as the Jumping Viewport problem. It's like DS has a bug that calculates a wild delta for the first mouse-move report of a drag operation and then acts on it, whatever it is, instead of throwing out the bad report. It may be calculating the initial delta based on saved coordinates which are invalid.

    I think AlienRenders has similar thoughts according to this post:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3461071/#Comment_3461071

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 96,877

    I believe the jump with certain tools is fixed in a forthcoming build, though I don't see Active Pose listed (4.11.0.148 is the version with the fix, if you check the Change Log http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_11_0_148 )

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,154
    Richard Haseltine said:

    I believe the jump with certain tools is fixed in a forthcoming build, though I don't see Active Pose listed (4.11.0.148 is the version with the fix, if you check the Change Log http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_11_0_148 )

    that is positive news , it would super awesome if daz implemented  hard surface or floor pinning tool , like maya has, so we can pin the characters to the floor level or inclines etc.

    Thanks for the info Richard

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449

     

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I believe the jump with certain tools is fixed in a forthcoming build, though I don't see Active Pose listed (4.11.0.148 is the version with the fix, if you check the Change Log http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_11_0_148 )

    Thanks Richard, I must have missed that when I looked. I'm wondering if "Pose Tool" means the Acrive Pose Tool?

    Fixed an issue in transform tools (e.g., Universal Tool, Rotation Tool, Translation Tool, Scale Tool, Pose Tool, etc.) that caused them to suddenly “jump” if ERC driven properties (e.g., “pose controls”) were already applied ...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 96,877

    The Pose Tool it refers to is the set of discs that appear in the top-left corner of the viewport when a bone is selected. Clicking and dragging on them is another way to adjust bones.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449
    Richard Haseltine said:

    The Pose Tool it refers to is the set of discs that appear in the top-left corner of the viewport when a bone is selected. Clicking and dragging on them is another way to adjust bones.

    Ahh - I never use that. I got used to using the parameter sliders from day-one and that method has stuck.

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