i dont understand why character7 for character8 products.
daveso
Posts: 6,466
in The Commons
what is the deal with , for instance, Olymnpia 7 for Olympia 8, and a bunch of other character7 for character8 products?
There is no explanation of how they work or what is up. If you have Olympia 8 and Olympia 7 or just one of them, why would you want these products?
It makes no sense to me. I'm confused, considering the clothes and stuff for any 7 character can be fit to any 8 character. Plus if you have the 8 character, you already dont need the 7 character.
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Some of the Gen8 characters look ugly compared to their Gen3 counterparts. I personally avoid the 7 for 8 products since I already own almost all the Gen3 figures and I can do that with the free script.
Mainly it is to add the shape and custom UV mapping of the whatever 7 figure to the whatever 8 figure.
Some people like the shape of Genesis 3 models more than gen 8. Now they can have gen 8 function.... with gen 3 shape
It's a good way to ensure compatability with the Genesis 8 hair, clothing etc. when using a 7 for 8 shape. Supposedly there's some backward capability for Genesis 8 items to Genesis 3, but if you are using a 'same generation' figure, then there's not a question as to whether it'll work or not.
I messed with A7 for A8 just now, yes I was able to 'autofit' some 8 stuff to Aiko 7, but then Daz crashed... so I tried again with better success the second time around...
It went pretty well, except for the shoes (yeah that didn't go well, see pic).
The outfit is the Blazer outfit for G8F, with Aiko 7 for Aiko 8 to the left, and autofitting the same outfit and hair to Aiko 7 on the right. Both are sporting Calista Tail hair for G8F
The point is, it's extra steps retrofitting Genesis 8 stuff to Genesis 7, whereas with the A7 for A8 figure The G8 stuff just works, no extra popups or anything (so it saves a tiny bit of time). Also, trying to retrofit G8 stuff to G7 is hit and miss (footwear in particular may not go well).
Yeah, you can attempt to port the shape forward yourself jumping through the steps using morph loader, but that's a bit of a pain for the uninitiated... and it takes time that you could be spending doing other things.
So yeah, why mess with things, when you can just get a 'native' G8 figure...
Also, at least with Aiko 7 for Aiko 8, the Aiko 7 materials are included, so if you don't already own Aiko 7, this can be helpful.
Of course, the downside is when you are trying to port say V3/4 stuff to Genesis 8. I usually end up fitting to Genesis 3 first, then transferring the 'fitted' clothing to 8. Then you wonder why you aren't just using the Genesis 3 figure...
Any genesis figure can be morphed in a billion different ways so why is a particular shape considered so much better than others? If you showed a range of variations of e.g. Olympia 7 side by side then you might like one of the variations better than the official one.
You don't, because you can transfer the morphs extremely easily with high accuracy using the transfer utility in UV space, and you can convert the maps with Map Transfer.
The only real advantage if you already have the 7 character in question is you don't have to transfer and hook up the JCMs if you want them, which is tedious.
hmmm ..yeah.. i mainly stick with the particluar generation I'm dealing with at the time. if something fits easily great, if not, I move on. I'm probably missing some opportunity of compatibility or something, but I find it impossible to use all the stuff I have already anyhow. not much I would want to see transferred to any other character really.
Money grab LOL
in all seriousness I can't see the need for these either, but apparantly someone is buying them.
I don't think they are that big a seller probably, guessing, but the effort to make them is about as little as one can manage to do and still have a product that can be put in the DAZ Store for sale.
I see these products as targeting newbies. If you're just getting started, this stuff is already pretty intimidating. (I remember buying products to use M4/V4 on G2, then buying up a lot of older content because I naively thought it would fit the then current line of Genesis 2 figures.—Not that it can't or won't, just not as simply as I thought when I bought them.)
But if you own both figures, you don't need this product for your G8 figure to wear the G3 materials. A better investiment, IMO, is Redz "Genesis 3 Character UVs..." for G8F and G8M. These products provide all the named 7F UVs for G8Fs and named 7M UVs for G8Ms, respectively. You don't even have to think about it. You apply the materials, and they just work.
I'm not convinced there is enough difference between G3 and G8 technically to make products like these useful for me, when I already have the 7 figures they're for, (though not the 8 figures, in most cases. Yet.) I've gotten to the point where I find the clothing I want for a particular scene, and pick out a character from the generation the clothing was made for. Unless I'm doing a closeup portrait, how important is it really, for me, that the character's face is "just so"? Answer: Not very important at all, most of the time.
7 for 8 is nice :
Note: Previously these products were released
Just 7 for 8 is the new generation.
I thought they were useless too, UNTIL I discovered that a G3F character I'd been working on (and had developed great affection for) quite some time had an issue with her teeth: Nasty Girl Mouth (for lack of a better term). Although I had every tooth morph available, I could not get her look appropriate or consistent from other angles. And I was using so many morph sliders that it was a daunting task to eliminate each one to discover the culprit. Add to that, it could have been the result of the interaction of two morphs; (later, I found that this had to be the case, because I relented and eliminated each morph one at a time).
So, I decided that I would re-pose her teeth for each image whenever her mouth was open. I tried, and this was unsatisfactory. I begrudgingly came to the conclusion that I would have to engineer a new character. So, I thought, I might as well switch to G8F and get advantage of all the new HD expression tech. I would have liked to come as close as possible to my G3F character, but I did not hold out much hope. After three tries at getting my girl (and ending up with decent extras or supporting characters), I resolved to wait a bit. That was last night.
Lo and behold, Victoria 7 (from whom I used both head and body) and Olympia 7 (from whom I used body) are NOW available for G8F! Of course, I morphed them so heavily that they were unrecognizable as such, but at least I have my decent starting point. I can't tell you how many times products have been released the day after I realized I had a need for them.
Daz Core characters generally have more highly detailed head morphs than PA products. Details translate as authenticity. But the personality exuded by the G8F group (with the exceptions of Charlotte and Monique) at this time is unsuitable for most of my usages for MAIN characters. The sameness of Victoria 8, Olympia 8, Stephanie 8, Alexandra 8, & Penny 8 leaves me with variations on a theme (a theme which I would only use ONCE in a cast) rather than distinct TYPES with which to populate my tales. Bless Singular Blues' heart (and Sickleyield) for his morph conversion solution, but I have so much content for it to sift through that it was not feasible for me, and there were some scary anomalies that occurred. It just wasn't worth the risk to me. Hopefully, he is preparing a version for market.
My circumstances may be unique, but I'm really glad that Gravity Studios gave their bottom line a boost with this otherwise useless (to me) product line. Hopefully, the females sell well enough that a few males jump their generation.
That light bulb cranium on a lot of the G8F's is also problematic, even with morphs.
Yeah, when you can't get shapes to transfer to 8, these products become very appealing.
Been messing with Vic 7 for almost an hour now, following the various guides mentioned on this forum.
I keep getting the message 'geometry doesn't match' when using morph loader pro, so it fails to create the morph. Annoying...
Set subD to 0 & base instead of high in the parameters section.
Did that (as part of the instructions). No joy.
G3 has a lot of fans, but the facial rig didn't really work until G8. Plus, just about all the G3 bases had unique UV Maps which meant that their skins don't necessarily translate to G8, which is based on the G3 base UV which was different.
And people who do try to use the G3 materials on G8 often fall afoul of G8's separate eye surface geometry.
Sooooo, since DAZ is making a big issue of how backwards compatable G8 is, they are putting at least some effort into making it so.
I mean, if you are going to put the effort into reworking the materials so people can duplicate the named G3 base skins on the G8 models, I suppose it isn't that big an effort to port the morphs as well. Makes it possible to at least make a stab at dial-spinning across generations in the absence of GenX.
They certainly aren't going to concern themselves with ports of anything other than their own named bases, but there are enough of those for it to be at least mostly worth it.
Ahh... backward compatibility through extra money... and of course no general solution, but a case by case one... yeah, that makes sense in a business-ish way.
I'm okay with that, as my need for a solution like this is utterly neglectable.
Wouldn't it be nice, though, if it wasn't a "(Named Figure) 7 for (Named Figure) 8", but instead a "(Named Figure) 7 for G8F/G8M" product? I guess I'm not the only one who would rather be inclined to dish out money for this kind of "solution".
I assume the HD morph isn’t included in these products? As the HD can’t be transferred between generations by other methods, that might give these products a real USP for those that already own the 7 characters.
I imagine 8 HD replaced the 7 HD
No, the HD morph isn't included, and that would really be special, since HD can't be copied to other generations AFAIK. And th 8 HD is for the 8 morph and it does not line up satisfactorily with the 7 morph. I tried. As soon as you get it to where you can notice it well enough, it makes an indentation where no indentation should be.