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OT: Life after Windows 7

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  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the difference with W10 and previous versions of the OS is it is now being handled as a "service" (MS's term) rather than a defined OS product, so there is no more SP-1, SP-2, etc.  Instead it is a constant flow of feature and security updates that is spoon fed to every user. whenever MS sees fit whether the user wants it or not.  With Home Edition you are at the mercy of their update timetable, with Pro you can at least defer for a couple months. This is part of the "intrusiveness many don't like (aside from the telemetry which can be switched off...well to a point, as Cortana keeps running in background).  True you can turn all updating off (I believe, not sure in the case of Home Edition anymore as there have been so many policy changes), but then you better have a hefty rock solid firewall and robust Malware utilities or keep that system offline.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/271096/why-is-cortana-still-running-in-the-background-after-you-disable-it/

    ..this is part of my complaint in that Cortana is integrated in rather than layers on the OS There have been reports that after an update it is fully up and running again and thus needs to be disabled (which as I understand can now only bed done in the pro version). The Cortana Assistant is and should be a "fluff" add on like any other "app" and not an integrated part of the OS.  MS should have just stuck with the tried and true Windows Explorer.

    Never saw Cortana return. I am on Pro though so maybe that's why, no idea. Windows Explorer is of course still alive and well. I use it every day.

    I will say, if you google "Windows 10 sucks" you're gonna get those results where people tell you what they think is bad about it. Have you ever googled "Windows 10 is pretty good"?

    Me: Hey Google, "Windows 10 is pretty good"
    Google: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3221369/microsoft-windows/its-time-to-move-to-win10-creators-update-for-all-the-wrong-reasons.html

    It’s time to move to Win10 Creators Update – for all the wrong reasons

    If you’re using Windows 10, you should consider moving to version 1703 — not because it’s better, but because Microsoft has screwed up 1607 patches so royally.

    Haha, got me wink

    You... did cherry pick the bad result though?

    The bad result? There's also a video about how Windows 10 is terrible for gaming. I'm just pointing out, tongue in cheek, that googling for reasons why W10 is great turns up specific reasons why it isn't on the very first page.

    A lot of the positive results that I looked through were just "the interface is so much better than Windows 8," which good lord, I would hope so, and "wow, a lot of people are using Windows 10," which after the massive push from Microsoft to download it for free, no surprise.

    Alright, alright laugh

    At least give me credit for "pretty good".  I mean, try "Windows 10 is amazing" instead.

    http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

    Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

    cheeky

    To be fair, the article is pretty flattering about everything but the spying.

    Here's how to opt out. So what't the problem?

    The whole "we'll spy on you until you change a setting" instead of "you can change a setting to allow us to spy" is the problem.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the difference with W10 and previous versions of the OS is it is now being handled as a "service" (MS's term) rather than a defined OS product, so there is no more SP-1, SP-2, etc.  Instead it is a constant flow of feature and security updates that is spoon fed to every user. whenever MS sees fit whether the user wants it or not.  With Home Edition you are at the mercy of their update timetable, with Pro you can at least defer for a couple months. This is part of the "intrusiveness many don't like (aside from the telemetry which can be switched off...well to a point, as Cortana keeps running in background).  True you can turn all updating off (I believe, not sure in the case of Home Edition anymore as there have been so many policy changes), but then you better have a hefty rock solid firewall and robust Malware utilities or keep that system offline.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/271096/why-is-cortana-still-running-in-the-background-after-you-disable-it/

    ..this is part of my complaint in that Cortana is integrated in rather than layers on the OS There have been reports that after an update it is fully up and running again and thus needs to be disabled (which as I understand can now only bed done in the pro version). The Cortana Assistant is and should be a "fluff" add on like any other "app" and not an integrated part of the OS.  MS should have just stuck with the tried and true Windows Explorer.

    Never saw Cortana return. I am on Pro though so maybe that's why, no idea. Windows Explorer is of course still alive and well. I use it every day.

    I will say, if you google "Windows 10 sucks" you're gonna get those results where people tell you what they think is bad about it. Have you ever googled "Windows 10 is pretty good"?

    Me: Hey Google, "Windows 10 is pretty good"
    Google: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3221369/microsoft-windows/its-time-to-move-to-win10-creators-update-for-all-the-wrong-reasons.html

    It’s time to move to Win10 Creators Update – for all the wrong reasons

    If you’re using Windows 10, you should consider moving to version 1703 — not because it’s better, but because Microsoft has screwed up 1607 patches so royally.

    Haha, got me wink

    You... did cherry pick the bad result though? I think my point stands. Also you googled. Google collected that data and is hoarding, analyzing it, and profiling you up and down. That kind of information is power, and a million times worse than the little OS telemetry data Microsoft is trying to get from you. While in Windows 10 you can completely disable it, you cannot control in any way what Google does with the info you just gave them.

    ...oh I expect services like Google (which is free) and other sites to collect info and sell it to advertisers, that's how they make their money. However MS is a profit making business you have to pay to use their products (whether directly or through the OEM), and that is where I draw the line.

    Part of the reason I dumped cable television almost two decades ago and stopped going to first run cinemas as I'm not going to pay to watch adverts.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,991
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the difference with W10 and previous versions of the OS is it is now being handled as a "service" (MS's term) rather than a defined OS product, so there is no more SP-1, SP-2, etc.  Instead it is a constant flow of feature and security updates that is spoon fed to every user. whenever MS sees fit whether the user wants it or not.  With Home Edition you are at the mercy of their update timetable, with Pro you can at least defer for a couple months. This is part of the "intrusiveness many don't like (aside from the telemetry which can be switched off...well to a point, as Cortana keeps running in background).  True you can turn all updating off (I believe, not sure in the case of Home Edition anymore as there have been so many policy changes), but then you better have a hefty rock solid firewall and robust Malware utilities or keep that system offline.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/271096/why-is-cortana-still-running-in-the-background-after-you-disable-it/

    ..this is part of my complaint in that Cortana is integrated in rather than layers on the OS There have been reports that after an update it is fully up and running again and thus needs to be disabled (which as I understand can now only bed done in the pro version). The Cortana Assistant is and should be a "fluff" add on like any other "app" and not an integrated part of the OS.  MS should have just stuck with the tried and true Windows Explorer.

    Never saw Cortana return. I am on Pro though so maybe that's why, no idea. Windows Explorer is of course still alive and well. I use it every day.

    I will say, if you google "Windows 10 sucks" you're gonna get those results where people tell you what they think is bad about it. Have you ever googled "Windows 10 is pretty good"?

    Me: Hey Google, "Windows 10 is pretty good"
    Google: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3221369/microsoft-windows/its-time-to-move-to-win10-creators-update-for-all-the-wrong-reasons.html

    It’s time to move to Win10 Creators Update – for all the wrong reasons

    If you’re using Windows 10, you should consider moving to version 1703 — not because it’s better, but because Microsoft has screwed up 1607 patches so royally.

    Haha, got me wink

    You... did cherry pick the bad result though? I think my point stands. Also you googled. Google collected that data and is hoarding, analyzing it, and profiling you up and down. That kind of information is power, and a million times worse than the little OS telemetry data Microsoft is trying to get from you. While in Windows 10 you can completely disable it, you cannot control in any way what Google does with the info you just gave them.

    ...oh I expect services like Google (which is free) and other sites to collect info and sell it to advertisers, that's how they make their money. However MS is a profit making business you have to pay to use their products (whether directly or through the OEM), and that is where I draw the line.

    Part of the reason I dumped cable television almost two decades ago and stopped going to first run cinemas as I'm not going to pay to watch adverts.

    Fair enough. I did get Windows 10 for free, and it takes a few minutes of my time to disable this stuff. Pretty reasonable if you ask me.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048

    ...like I mentioned all the serious bugs with those "spoon fed" updates in the first several months (many which created havoc on older systems such as mine), along with the fact I would also have the Home Edition (as at the time I had W7 Home) which pretty much puts most control in MS's hands, is what kept me from saying "yes"  Looking back over the last couple years, glad I did so as they made the Home Edition even more restricted as to what "features" you can and cannot get rid of.

  • Frank__Frank__ Posts: 302

    Don't see the problem with Win10. Updated desktop, 3 notebooks, tablet: no problem. Took max 10 minutes on a computer to disable all the unwanted stuff, which is always done while watching TV :) I had to wait almost one year, before I got the first new revision/upgrade of Win10 after release; I just waited, didn't care. (Some weeks ago I had a computer from a friend, which had problems updating - don't ask, what stuff was installed - took some hours, some restarts, running over night, sometimes in the afternoon it was updated and running. Patience.)

    Perhaps an interesting information for people concerned about backward compatibility: with Vista, Win7, Win8 and Win8.1 I had to install a virtual machine with XP to run Microsoft Money 95, a 16Bit prog, developed for Win95. This runs natively on Win10, what makes me everytime wonder and motivates me posting in these threads.

    (I'm no MS-fanboy, but using Windows since 3.0, I have to admit that since Vista SP1 Windows is a stable operating system, Win7 was great, with 8 and 8.1 MS were trying to find their way, 10 is good. Almost never had any problems with updates, but I have no so-called "optimizing" programs installed.)

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    edited March 2018

    I think whether you like it depends on whether you have problem with it. Windows 10 fall creators update caused a lot of problems for me with Daz Studio. It also caused problems for my mouse trackpad. My machine is a gaming notebook. There were never any fixes provided as some computer manufacturers rely on Microsoft to update device drivers. I did remove the update and disabled my updates but since reversion my computer freezes more.   I honestly never had any issues with updates before 10 but 10 has soured me a lot on Microsoft. Plus you can only delay updates so long. Eventually you have to update or take the machine off the network. Newer patches also want the fall update. So not installing it isn’t really a good solution.

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048

    ...I was perfectly fine with taking the time every Patch Tuesday to review updates before accepting or rejecting them.  Some I flatly didn't need like ones that related to language recognition and parental/family filters.  For others like drivers, I would go to the device maker's site check the forums there as well as the usual third party sources before updating.  This was a once a month situation, usually the same week each month.  No surprise auto reboots in the middle of what I am doing, no having to roll back because of frequent BSODs, no worry about boot up errors or having my system bricked (which did occur in some cases). Nice and simple as I was the one in control.

    With W10, MS has taken that away from everyone from grandmum, to gaming enthusiasts, to power users (the only exception being IT managers for businesses with Enterprise Edition).  This is why on some tech forums I refer to them as "Mommysoft" as it seems they need to hold everyone's hand at all times no matter how experienced and savvy a user is.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2018
    kyoto kid said:

    ...actually not so much the free offer (MS didn't even get half way to their touted goal of W10 on1 billion systems during the free upgrade period of 2015 - 2016) but more by attrition as over the last year or so. Pretty much every new system and notebook being sold is bundled with W10 (usually Home Edition) as well as like I mentioned the new Intel and AMD multi core CPUs don't support any other version of the Windows OS. 

    A few custom shops still offer a W7 Pro "downgrade" (mostly for Xeon based workstations) but even that is becoming harder to find.

    The holdouts are primarily those of us who still have older systems that are running just fine under 7 or 8.1.

    The laptop that I use every day (and that I'm using right now in fact), I had custom built. It came with Windows 10. I specifically asked the people making the computer to deliver it to me with NO OS installed. I promptly bought a copy of Windows 8 and installed that instead. I haven't had one problem with a driver or otherwise. After Windows 10 was installed on one of my other laptops (without my input btw), I tried it. I did. I hated it. Before the 30 days was up, I wiped that  junk off of my computer and bought a copy of Windows 8 for every computer I've got. I intend to stay with 8.1 until they no longer support it, at which time I'll pull the internet plug on it and use Linux to get online when I need to. Farther on down the road I may have to give up this hobby because I have no intentions whatsoever of giving over my computer to a bunch of corporate nitwits with no interest in what I want or what I need. I can still turn off Google Assistant (I can't do that with Cortana on Windows 10 Home). I can freely use Google Chrome without signing into it, which I do regularly. MS doesn't give me the option to turn off what I do not need (and do not want). They can keep their OS ;).

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048

    ...yeah still hoping this whole "OS as a service" notion would go the way of moos rings, mullets, and 6" platform shoes.

    Of course I hoped the same would happen with SUVs though today they're even more numerous than ever and made by just about every automotive company save Rolls Royce, McLaren, and Ferrari (Lamborghini even made one, an ugly looking brute, between the years 1986 - 1993)

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,991
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I was perfectly fine with taking the time every Patch Tuesday to review updates before accepting or rejecting them.  Some I flatly didn't need like ones that related to language recognition and parental/family filters.  For others like drivers, I would go to the device maker's site check the forums there as well as the usual third party sources before updating.  This was a once a month situation, usually the same week each month.  No surprise auto reboots in the middle of what I am doing, no having to roll back because of frequent BSODs, no worry about boot up errors or having my system bricked (which did occur in some cases). Nice and simple as I was the one in control.

    With W10, MS has taken that away from everyone from grandmum, to gaming enthusiasts, to power users (the only exception being IT managers for businesses with Enterprise Edition).  This is why on some tech forums I refer to them as "Mommysoft" as it seems they need to hold everyone's hand at all times no matter how experienced and savvy a user is.

    Put yourself in their shoes. You are the manufacturer of the most used OS with a market share north of 85%. Everyone cries fowl because your OS is under constant attack and all these security holes are perceived as you having done a bad job when in reality a vast majority of the problems are a direct cause of people not updating their stuff. People say other OS are so much more secure when in reality yours acts as a huge firewall to theirs.

    What do you do? How do you know which users are savvy or not? How many so called savvy users belong to the "never change a running system" group and are scared to break their OS with an update when they should be the very people to embrace it? Understanding that there are millions of configurations out there and marvelling at the sheer miracle that this OS works with all this hardware that is often not even supported by your competitors?

    I don't know... I think I'd do exactly what MS is doing now. Get away from big fancy releases that you need to get people to upgrade to, and if they don't you're doomed to update an old or even several old OS for years and years. Update constantly, make sure those updates go through in a reasonable time frame.

  • HellcatF6FHellcatF6F Posts: 78

    I tried Windows 10 and went back to Windows 7. Windows 7's menu systems are so much better organized, no forced updates, no forced VRAM usage and better compatibility with older programs. I will stay with Windows 7.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited March 2018
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I was perfectly fine with taking the time every Patch Tuesday to review updates before accepting or rejecting them.  Some I flatly didn't need like ones that related to language recognition and parental/family filters.  For others like drivers, I would go to the device maker's site check the forums there as well as the usual third party sources before updating.  This was a once a month situation, usually the same week each month.  No surprise auto reboots in the middle of what I am doing, no having to roll back because of frequent BSODs, no worry about boot up errors or having my system bricked (which did occur in some cases). Nice and simple as I was the one in control.

    With W10, MS has taken that away from everyone from grandmum, to gaming enthusiasts, to power users (the only exception being IT managers for businesses with Enterprise Edition).  This is why on some tech forums I refer to them as "Mommysoft" as it seems they need to hold everyone's hand at all times no matter how experienced and savvy a user is.

    Put yourself in their shoes. You are the manufacturer of the most used OS with a market share north of 85%. Everyone cries fowl because your OS is under constant attack and all these security holes are perceived as you having done a bad job when in reality a vast majority of the problems are a direct cause of people not updating their stuff. People say other OS are so much more secure when in reality yours acts as a huge firewall to theirs.

    What do you do? How do you know which users are savvy or not? How many so called savvy users belong to the "never change a running system" group and are scared to break their OS with an update when they should be the very people to embrace it? Understanding that there are millions of configurations out there and marvelling at the sheer miracle that this OS works with all this hardware that is often not even supported by your competitors?

    I don't know... I think I'd do exactly what MS is doing now. Get away from big fancy releases that you need to get people to upgrade to, and if they don't you're doomed to update an old or even several old OS for years and years. Update constantly, make sure those updates go through in a reasonable time frame.

    "We need to control as much of your OS as we can get away with because people are dumb" just doesn't cut it for me. What happens if MS decides they want to be a closed platform? They already flirt with this with their Store and if they wanted they could push it on the vast majority of their users.

    People are not so dumb they should have to disable the entire update service versus having an actual off option in the software. People are not so dumb they should have to send Microsoft their information by default, in case they forget to switch on the "spy on me" mode. People are not so dumb their computer should automatically act as an update hub for Microsoft. People are not so dumb that they need to see ads in their start menu.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I was perfectly fine with taking the time every Patch Tuesday to review updates before accepting or rejecting them.  Some I flatly didn't need like ones that related to language recognition and parental/family filters.  For others like drivers, I would go to the device maker's site check the forums there as well as the usual third party sources before updating.  This was a once a month situation, usually the same week each month.  No surprise auto reboots in the middle of what I am doing, no having to roll back because of frequent BSODs, no worry about boot up errors or having my system bricked (which did occur in some cases). Nice and simple as I was the one in control.

    With W10, MS has taken that away from everyone from grandmum, to gaming enthusiasts, to power users (the only exception being IT managers for businesses with Enterprise Edition).  This is why on some tech forums I refer to them as "Mommysoft" as it seems they need to hold everyone's hand at all times no matter how experienced and savvy a user is.

    Put yourself in their shoes. You are the manufacturer of the most used OS with a market share north of 85%. Everyone cries fowl because your OS is under constant attack and all these security holes are perceived as you having done a bad job when in reality a vast majority of the problems are a direct cause of people not updating their stuff. People say other OS are so much more secure when in reality yours acts as a huge firewall to theirs.

    What do you do? How do you know which users are savvy or not? How many so called savvy users belong to the "never change a running system" group and are scared to break their OS with an update when they should be the very people to embrace it? Understanding that there are millions of configurations out there and marvelling at the sheer miracle that this OS works with all this hardware that is often not even supported by your competitors?

    I don't know... I think I'd do exactly what MS is doing now. Get away from big fancy releases that you need to get people to upgrade to, and if they don't you're doomed to update an old or even several old OS for years and years. Update constantly, make sure those updates go through in a reasonable time frame.

    ...at the very least, they could give those of us who actually know what we are doing and care about our systems' security the option to maintain the OS ourselves as we have in the past and not cram every update, whether we need/want it or not down our throats whenever they choose.  If someone doesn't wish to spend the time and effort, then he/she could just turn on "Auto Updating" and let MS do it all.  There is a point to becoming so "altruistic" and trying to be the one which stops anything everything bad from happening to where it becomes overbearing and suffocating.  That is what is happening with MS in this respect.

    MS and Windows will always be under attack by hackers and malware as they have a huge target on their back due to their dominance in the computing world.  If there is one thing Davids love to do, it's try and topple Goliaths or at least, kick them in the shins now and then.

    The bottom line is all many of us want is an OS that does what it is supposed to do, simply support operation of the programmes we use and otherwise stay out of our hair, not tell us the weather, ask us how our day is, nag us about appointments, decide when to update our system, etc, etc, etc. I have W7 working just that way I even have the old "classic" desktop, no fancy pictures, silly desktop gadgets, or anything like that.  My screen saver is turning off the displays when I know I'm not going to be actively working on anything for a while (animated screen savers tend to use system resources, not good when rendering).

    If Daz embraced Linux for all its programmes, I would have been there already

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321
    kyoto kid said:

    ...at the very least, they could give those of us who actually know what we are doing and care about our systems' security the option to maintain the OS ourselves as we have in the past and not cram every update, whether we need/want it or not down our throats whenever they choose.  If someone doesn't wish to spend the time and effort, then he/she could just turn on "Auto Updating" and let MS do it all.  There is a point to becoming so "altruistic" and trying to be the one which stops anything everything bad from happening to where it becomes overbearing and suffocating.  That is what is happening with MS in this respect.

    MS and Windows will always be under attack by hackers and malware as they have a huge target on their back due to their dominance in the computing world.  If there is one thing Davids love to do, it's try and topple Goliaths or at least, kick them in the shins now and then.

    The bottom line is all many of us want is an OS that does what it is supposed to do, simply support operation of the programmes we use and otherwise stay out of our hair, not tell us the weather, ask us how our day is, nag us about appointments, decide when to update our system, etc, etc, etc. I have W7 working just that way I even have the old "classic" desktop, no fancy pictures, silly desktop gadgets, or anything like that.  My screen saver is turning off the displays when I know I'm not going to be actively working on anything for a while (animated screen savers tend to use system resources, not good when rendering).

    If Daz embraced Linux for all its programmes, I would have been there already

    I'm with you. I want to decide what's on my computer, what shows on the screen, and which updates to install.
    I certainly don't want it talking to anyone behind my back!

    A friend just gave me a Galaxy S4 because he was tired of me not having a telephone. There is so much crap on it that I don't want but can't get rid of, I hate the thing.
    I want my old Nokia candy bar back - almost bulletproof, I could make calls and send texts. Period. No Google this, Google that, apps stores, Amazon, etc. Just a phone.

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 2,033

    My new build is a Ryzen 7 x1800 so I'll need to buy a win 10 OS in spite of getting it as a free upgrade from my old rig's win 7...If I could go back to win 7 I would as it's a great OS, but worthless for my Ryzen build.

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,243
    takezo_3001 said:

    My new build is a Ryzen 7 x1800 so I'll need to buy a win 10 OS in spite of getting it as a free upgrade from my old rig's win 7...If I could go back to win 7 I would as it's a great OS, but worthless for my Ryzen build.

    Possibly you can still get Windows 7 working with a Ryzen system?  I'm hazy on the details, but just in case I bookmarked a few leads:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/192511/has-anyone-here-bought-a-treadripper-rig-and-used-it-for-studio-yet/p6

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/222611/your-intel-based-computer-is-probably-going-to-get-slower-this-month-along-with-the-whole-world/p2

    https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/chipset?os=Windows 7 - 64

    https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/830385-official-amd-ryzen-threadripper-windows-7-chipset-drivers-available-so-newer-amd-cpus-are-officially-supported-with-windows-7/

    http://www.overclock.net/forum/10-amd-cpus/1624699-using-windows-7-ryzen-systems.html

    https://www.techpowerup.com/232527/user-patch-unlocks-windows-7-and-8-1-updates-for-core-kaby-lake-and-ryzen

     

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 6,076

    I suspect not very many opinions are goign to be changed - it's a bit like marmite; you eitehr love or hate it.  I also suspect most 'haters' don't use W10 much, or at all.  Another thing I suspect is that using W10 is pretty much fine and dandy: certainly my brief exposures to it have not been too calamitous or traumatising! What, I again suspct, most 'haters' have against it - including me - is what it does 'for you': the installs and reboots, the 'spying', etc. I could cope with the installs, just about, if it were not for the driver installs as well: I DO NOT install driver updates unless, or until, I have to to ensure software continues to work. I've had Windows-based computers for a long, long time (I thik the first was a 386-based system).  In all that time I have had to update drivers (usually video) less than a handful of times.

    I am dreading what will be coming as I am hearing enough now about 'stuff' that needs W10, or systems that can only run it.  Soon enough my web browsers will go unsupported and soon after that cease to be recognised by web servers which will tell me 'some fearures may not work ...'

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,996
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the difference with W10 and previous versions of the OS is it is now being handled as a "service" (MS's term) rather than a defined OS product, so there is no more SP-1, SP-2, etc.  Instead it is a constant flow of feature and security updates that is spoon fed to every user. whenever MS sees fit whether the user wants it or not.  With Home Edition you are at the mercy of their update timetable, with Pro you can at least defer for a couple months. This is part of the "intrusiveness many don't like (aside from the telemetry which can be switched off...well to a point, as Cortana keeps running in background).  True you can turn all updating off (I believe, not sure in the case of Home Edition anymore as there have been so many policy changes), but then you better have a hefty rock solid firewall and robust Malware utilities or keep that system offline.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/271096/why-is-cortana-still-running-in-the-background-after-you-disable-it/

    ..this is part of my complaint in that Cortana is integrated in rather than layers on the OS There have been reports that after an update it is fully up and running again and thus needs to be disabled (which as I understand can now only bed done in the pro version). The Cortana Assistant is and should be a "fluff" add on like any other "app" and not an integrated part of the OS.  MS should have just stuck with the tried and true Windows Explorer.

    Never saw Cortana return. I am on Pro though so maybe that's why, no idea. Windows Explorer is of course still alive and well. I use it every day.

    I will say, if you google "Windows 10 sucks" you're gonna get those results where people tell you what they think is bad about it. Have you ever googled "Windows 10 is pretty good"?

    Me: Hey Google, "Windows 10 is pretty good"
    Google: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3221369/microsoft-windows/its-time-to-move-to-win10-creators-update-for-all-the-wrong-reasons.html

    It’s time to move to Win10 Creators Update – for all the wrong reasons

    If you’re using Windows 10, you should consider moving to version 1703 — not because it’s better, but because Microsoft has screwed up 1607 patches so royally.

    Haha, got me wink

    You... did cherry pick the bad result though?

    The bad result? There's also a video about how Windows 10 is terrible for gaming. I'm just pointing out, tongue in cheek, that googling for reasons why W10 is great turns up specific reasons why it isn't on the very first page.

    A lot of the positive results that I looked through were just "the interface is so much better than Windows 8," which good lord, I would hope so, and "wow, a lot of people are using Windows 10," which after the massive push from Microsoft to download it for free, no surprise.

    Alright, alright laugh

    At least give me credit for "pretty good".  I mean, try "Windows 10 is amazing" instead.

    http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

    Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

    cheeky

    To be fair, the article is pretty flattering about everything but the spying.

    Here's how to opt out. So what't the problem?

    The whole "we'll spy on you until you change a setting" instead of "you can change a setting to allow us to spy" is the problem.

    The custom install option asks for the main privacy settings, at least. Or did last tiem I reinstalled, a year ago.

  • ColinFrenchColinFrench Posts: 649

    Win10? Sorry, I want an operating system, not an advertising platform.

    Yes, Google tries to keep track of me too but that's no excuse to accept the same behavior from an O/S. And I try to minimize Google's tracking too -- for example "GoogleAdServices.com" and "Google-Analytics.com" are forbidden when I browse sites such as this one.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    sriesch said:
    takezo_3001 said:

    My new build is a Ryzen 7 x1800 so I'll need to buy a win 10 OS in spite of getting it as a free upgrade from my old rig's win 7...If I could go back to win 7 I would as it's a great OS, but worthless for my Ryzen build.

    Possibly you can still get Windows 7 working with a Ryzen system?  I'm hazy on the details, but just in case I bookmarked a few leads:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/192511/has-anyone-here-bought-a-treadripper-rig-and-used-it-for-studio-yet/p6

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/222611/your-intel-based-computer-is-probably-going-to-get-slower-this-month-along-with-the-whole-world/p2

    https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/chipset?os=Windows 7 - 64

    https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/830385-official-amd-ryzen-threadripper-windows-7-chipset-drivers-available-so-newer-amd-cpus-are-officially-supported-with-windows-7/

    http://www.overclock.net/forum/10-amd-cpus/1624699-using-windows-7-ryzen-systems.html

    https://www.techpowerup.com/232527/user-patch-unlocks-windows-7-and-8-1-updates-for-core-kaby-lake-and-ryzen

     

    Yes, you can. I did. You just have to preload USB drivers if you've got a USB mouse and keyboard. Give me a holler if you have trouble.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    Richard Haseltine said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the difference with W10 and previous versions of the OS is it is now being handled as a "service" (MS's term) rather than a defined OS product, so there is no more SP-1, SP-2, etc.  Instead it is a constant flow of feature and security updates that is spoon fed to every user. whenever MS sees fit whether the user wants it or not.  With Home Edition you are at the mercy of their update timetable, with Pro you can at least defer for a couple months. This is part of the "intrusiveness many don't like (aside from the telemetry which can be switched off...well to a point, as Cortana keeps running in background).  True you can turn all updating off (I believe, not sure in the case of Home Edition anymore as there have been so many policy changes), but then you better have a hefty rock solid firewall and robust Malware utilities or keep that system offline.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/271096/why-is-cortana-still-running-in-the-background-after-you-disable-it/

    ..this is part of my complaint in that Cortana is integrated in rather than layers on the OS There have been reports that after an update it is fully up and running again and thus needs to be disabled (which as I understand can now only bed done in the pro version). The Cortana Assistant is and should be a "fluff" add on like any other "app" and not an integrated part of the OS.  MS should have just stuck with the tried and true Windows Explorer.

    Never saw Cortana return. I am on Pro though so maybe that's why, no idea. Windows Explorer is of course still alive and well. I use it every day.

    I will say, if you google "Windows 10 sucks" you're gonna get those results where people tell you what they think is bad about it. Have you ever googled "Windows 10 is pretty good"?

    Me: Hey Google, "Windows 10 is pretty good"
    Google: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3221369/microsoft-windows/its-time-to-move-to-win10-creators-update-for-all-the-wrong-reasons.html

    It’s time to move to Win10 Creators Update – for all the wrong reasons

    If you’re using Windows 10, you should consider moving to version 1703 — not because it’s better, but because Microsoft has screwed up 1607 patches so royally.

    Haha, got me wink

    You... did cherry pick the bad result though?

    The bad result? There's also a video about how Windows 10 is terrible for gaming. I'm just pointing out, tongue in cheek, that googling for reasons why W10 is great turns up specific reasons why it isn't on the very first page.

    A lot of the positive results that I looked through were just "the interface is so much better than Windows 8," which good lord, I would hope so, and "wow, a lot of people are using Windows 10," which after the massive push from Microsoft to download it for free, no surprise.

    Alright, alright laugh

    At least give me credit for "pretty good".  I mean, try "Windows 10 is amazing" instead.

    http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

    Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

    cheeky

    To be fair, the article is pretty flattering about everything but the spying.

    Here's how to opt out. So what't the problem?

    The whole "we'll spy on you until you change a setting" instead of "you can change a setting to allow us to spy" is the problem.

    The custom install option asks for the main privacy settings, at least. Or did last tiem I reinstalled, a year ago.

    That's still needing to specifically change an option, but it's much better than not offering it during install, I guess.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,918

    Win10, Win7, WinXP? who needs it! I still have a running Win98 machine sitting next to my desk :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048
    Petercat said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...at the very least, they could give those of us who actually know what we are doing and care about our systems' security the option to maintain the OS ourselves as we have in the past and not cram every update, whether we need/want it or not down our throats whenever they choose.  If someone doesn't wish to spend the time and effort, then he/she could just turn on "Auto Updating" and let MS do it all.  There is a point to becoming so "altruistic" and trying to be the one which stops anything everything bad from happening to where it becomes overbearing and suffocating.  That is what is happening with MS in this respect.

    MS and Windows will always be under attack by hackers and malware as they have a huge target on their back due to their dominance in the computing world.  If there is one thing Davids love to do, it's try and topple Goliaths or at least, kick them in the shins now and then.

    The bottom line is all many of us want is an OS that does what it is supposed to do, simply support operation of the programmes we use and otherwise stay out of our hair, not tell us the weather, ask us how our day is, nag us about appointments, decide when to update our system, etc, etc, etc. I have W7 working just that way I even have the old "classic" desktop, no fancy pictures, silly desktop gadgets, or anything like that.  My screen saver is turning off the displays when I know I'm not going to be actively working on anything for a while (animated screen savers tend to use system resources, not good when rendering).

    If Daz embraced Linux for all its programmes, I would have been there already

    I'm with you. I want to decide what's on my computer, what shows on the screen, and which updates to install.
    I certainly don't want it talking to anyone behind my back!

    A friend just gave me a Galaxy S4 because he was tired of me not having a telephone. There is so much crap on it that I don't want but can't get rid of, I hate the thing.
    I want my old Nokia candy bar back - almost bulletproof, I could make calls and send texts. Period. No Google this, Google that, apps stores, Amazon, etc. Just a phone.

    ...I still have my old flip phone.  If it weren't that I use my smartphone for my transit fares (our system is eliminating paper tickets/passes so the only options are the phone flash tickets, a "smart " card account [which is geared more towards day to day commuters than occasional riders like myself], or carrying a wad of change in your pocket), planning trips on our transit system, finding directions to get somewhere, and checking scores on ESPN, I'd go back to it.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048
    SimonJM said:

    I suspect not very many opinions are goign to be changed - it's a bit like marmite; you eitehr love or hate it.  I also suspect most 'haters' don't use W10 much, or at all.  Another thing I suspect is that using W10 is pretty much fine and dandy: certainly my brief exposures to it have not been too calamitous or traumatising! What, I again suspct, most 'haters' have against it - including me - is what it does 'for you': the installs and reboots, the 'spying', etc. I could cope with the installs, just about, if it were not for the driver installs as well: I DO NOT install driver updates unless, or until, I have to to ensure software continues to work. I've had Windows-based computers for a long, long time (I thik the first was a 386-based system).  In all that time I have had to update drivers (usually video) less than a handful of times.

    I am dreading what will be coming as I am hearing enough now about 'stuff' that needs W10, or systems that can only run it.  Soon enough my web browsers will go unsupported and soon after that cease to be recognised by web servers which will tell me 'some fearures may not work ...'

    ..yeah I'm still running with an Nvidia driver from 2015 and had no issues. I tried a newer one once only to end up getting frequent BSODs so I rolled back and everything is stable.  Again if I went with the "free" W10 offer back then, I'd have Home Edition.and not even be able to defer updating let alone reject updates I don't want or need (and as I understand, not even be able to disable Cortana after one of the previous update cycles).

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,048
    Richard Haseltine said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bluejaunte said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the difference with W10 and previous versions of the OS is it is now being handled as a "service" (MS's term) rather than a defined OS product, so there is no more SP-1, SP-2, etc.  Instead it is a constant flow of feature and security updates that is spoon fed to every user. whenever MS sees fit whether the user wants it or not.  With Home Edition you are at the mercy of their update timetable, with Pro you can at least defer for a couple months. This is part of the "intrusiveness many don't like (aside from the telemetry which can be switched off...well to a point, as Cortana keeps running in background).  True you can turn all updating off (I believe, not sure in the case of Home Edition anymore as there have been so many policy changes), but then you better have a hefty rock solid firewall and robust Malware utilities or keep that system offline.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/271096/why-is-cortana-still-running-in-the-background-after-you-disable-it/

    ..this is part of my complaint in that Cortana is integrated in rather than layers on the OS There have been reports that after an update it is fully up and running again and thus needs to be disabled (which as I understand can now only bed done in the pro version). The Cortana Assistant is and should be a "fluff" add on like any other "app" and not an integrated part of the OS.  MS should have just stuck with the tried and true Windows Explorer.

    Never saw Cortana return. I am on Pro though so maybe that's why, no idea. Windows Explorer is of course still alive and well. I use it every day.

    I will say, if you google "Windows 10 sucks" you're gonna get those results where people tell you what they think is bad about it. Have you ever googled "Windows 10 is pretty good"?

    Me: Hey Google, "Windows 10 is pretty good"
    Google: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3221369/microsoft-windows/its-time-to-move-to-win10-creators-update-for-all-the-wrong-reasons.html

    It’s time to move to Win10 Creators Update – for all the wrong reasons

    If you’re using Windows 10, you should consider moving to version 1703 — not because it’s better, but because Microsoft has screwed up 1607 patches so royally.

    Haha, got me wink

    You... did cherry pick the bad result though?

    The bad result? There's also a video about how Windows 10 is terrible for gaming. I'm just pointing out, tongue in cheek, that googling for reasons why W10 is great turns up specific reasons why it isn't on the very first page.

    A lot of the positive results that I looked through were just "the interface is so much better than Windows 8," which good lord, I would hope so, and "wow, a lot of people are using Windows 10," which after the massive push from Microsoft to download it for free, no surprise.

    Alright, alright laugh

    At least give me credit for "pretty good".  I mean, try "Windows 10 is amazing" instead.

    http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

    Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

    cheeky

    To be fair, the article is pretty flattering about everything but the spying.

    Here's how to opt out. So what't the problem?

    The whole "we'll spy on you until you change a setting" instead of "you can change a setting to allow us to spy" is the problem.

    The custom install option asks for the main privacy settings, at least. Or did last tiem I reinstalled, a year ago.

    ...Pro or Home Edition?

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited March 2018
    Blind Owl said:
    nicstt said:

    I hated XP; it is, however, preferable to Windows 10 - if only just. I loathe W10.

    I bought a pro version of windows 7; installing it friday/saturday as I have a week off work to get everything sorted. I expect that going forward, I'll be using linux more than I do. If Daz did a version of Studio that worked on it, I'd gladly dump Windows altogether.

    I actually didn't mind XP, but I wasn't sure how well I would like Win7 after dealing (very briefly) with Vista. It cost me several hundred bucks to get Vista off my shiny new Dell--the last I will ever buy--and revert it to XP, and as far as I'm concerned it was worth every cent. So when my computer guy built my first Win7 box I got him to make it a dual-boot system, XP and 7. After a while I realized that 7 was enough like XP that I felt comfortable with it, so I ended up deleting the XP partition. All my older XP software ran just fine in 7, so with my latest build I didn't bother with dual-boot.

    So if you learned to live with XP, you'll probably be OK with 7. Good luck, and have fun!wink

    I didn't, I stayed with W2k, although they did have similarities.

    I actually prefer 8.0, or did till they started messing with in as well as 7 if you're not careful.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735

    I'm also hanging onto my Windows 8.1 forever--if I can.  My husband's laptop came with Win 8 and he switched to Win 10 Home.  In the last 3 months, he's had to refresh it several times, send it back to HP twice, and have them remote in multiple times.  The Fall Creators Update broke his 3d camera, so he sent it back to HP.  They sent it back to him with the camera working, but the 3d was still broken.  They said they couldn't do anything for him since it's a Windows thing, not an HP thing.  Now another update broke his facial recognition thing and he can't use his face to logon anymore.  HP said again, it's a windows thing, not their problem.  So he refreshed his computer again for the umpteenth time, and decided to buy Win 10 Pro so he could control what updates he wants or not, etc.  He's super pis*ed about the whole mess.

    Meanwhile, I've got all the control I want with Win 8.1, and I have a shell that lets me boot to a Win 7 desktop and have a normal old Win 7 start menu and classic folders.  I'm happy.

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