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I remember the days when many (most?) products only had Poser based materials and no 3DL counterparts. Yeah, they had to be adjusted by hand to look good but the parameter channels used by both material sets were identical. Not so between Iray and 3DL which is where some of the difficulty comes in. For one, there is no "Lighting Model" channel in Iray which affects several surface factors. True, this can be manually converted adjusting a number of different channels (and guessing which values work and which ones don't) but takes longer which impacts workflow whereas one can get very good quality surfaces for Iray simply using the Iray Uber base presets on 3DL materials. And the render engine will optimise 3DL shaders for Iray on the fly (though taking a bit longer to do so than if the Iray Uber presets or "add on" Iray material sets were applied beforehand) 3DL does not have that same capability.
Not really true, there are several channels that Iray has that 3dl doesn't so all those need to be set when converting especially with things like glass water etc, the refraction channels are different 3dl doesn't have the emissive channel the translucency channel and some others. If you are used to changing Poser mats for DS then conversion from Iray should be a straigh forward enough job.
I really dislike this pushing PA's to include something that possible pushes the price up, these days I think twice before I buy something that has both, I look at the price and wonder if I'm paying for something that if neccassary I can do myself quickly enough and aren't really interested in having.
I understand your point of view. I hope you try to understand mine. When I look at the new "optimized for IRay" stuff I know for certain I'm paying for something I don't need or want.
Not all PAs are comfortable deliberately providing a part of their product that doesn't meet their standards; others don't seem to care.
Not everyone is going to want to buy the latest of any component, but in all honesty I think more would be willing to change out a video card (or add one to an existing system) than would spend the money to build a new system from the ground up to take advantage of the newer CPUs.
Depends on what you mean by "update"; I checked the changelogs and when 4.9.0.63 was release in January of 2016, there was an update to 3Delight. I can't say if any of the newer build have had a newer release added, nor do I care to speculate on whether or not the latest 3DL versions would still support what DAZ needs in it.
Understood.
Well, that's funny, because a lot of products that say "optimized for Iray" have 3DL mats that the PA just thinks look good in Iray.
Really
? Hmm ok it 's funny, the DAZ way of doing business=) During the last couple of months I recall buying one such product. It had complete IRay mats as one would expect, and SOME 3DL material presets. I think that's kind of funny too:)
Yep, it's very curious that "optimized for Iray" actually often means "not fully designed for Iray."
EDIT: There are products that have "Iray material settings" that are actually normal 3DL settings too, so it's really, really weird all around. Product descriptions are not super trustworthy.
So back to the original idea of the thread ...............
Or maybe the high prices will make people look at other render plugins more seriously, like what is mentioned in this thread. With the new pricing, even at $400 for the "permanent" license, Octane 4 may be a bargain compared to the inflated prices of a GTX 1070/1080 (if your OK with subscriptions, then $20 is outstanding). Plus you get Brigade integrated into Octane 4, their Real Time PBR render engine!!
With the development of the RNDR SDK, and Octane 2019, the requirement for a high end, large VRAM GPU will disappear (actually, Octane 3 made it less of an issue, and Octane 4 will make the VRAM issue "disappear"). Yes, with Octane 2019 you will be able to get improved render speeds using the integrated graphics chip on your processor, or the CPU if you don't has and integrated GPU, and take advantage of the speed improvements from AI Lighting and the AI Denoiser too.
Very interesting indeed! I wonder how nVidia will respond to this.
IMHO they probably won't "respond", but will keep to their plan, what ever that is. Again, this is just my opinion, but I think Iray is more of a commercialized tech demo (that may be set up to pay for itself via sales.... or not) for Nvidia to show what can be done with their GPU's, more that a true money making effort. It has lagged behind Octane to some degree, and in some instances, like out of core texture memory, simply not competed (Octane has had this capability for nearly 2 years). Don't get me wrong, Iray is a nifty bit of kit, and I do enjoy using it, but it simply doesn't compete feature wise (or speed) with products produced in a situation where the success of the render engine is directly linked to the success of the company like Octane/Otoy.
Beyond CPU rendering, I doubt that Nvidia is interested supporting any other "GPU" platform (Iray CPU may be seen by Nvidia as a demo feature too, which clearly supports the need to have an Nvidia GPU). Though they did announce some new tech today that will improve realtime raytracing performance aimed primarily at the gaming industry, but, it may make it's way into Iray in some form in the future.
Yes, that is interesting news today about NVIDIA's new renderer. Is this why NVIDIA transferred IRAY development to a third party?: A new real-time gaming render engine for VOLTA, but apparently not Maxwell. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-rtx-technology-realizes-dream-170000039.html Partnered with Microsoft too.
NVIDIA has their own realtime raytracing effort going on, I'd say they will compete just fine. Other than that I agree though that Iray doesn't seem to be trying to compete at the same level that say Redshift and Octane do.
Right, see Greymon's post :)
Here's the UE4 anouncement: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/unreal-engine-4-supports-microsoft-s-directx-raytracing-and-nvidia-rtx
...so what about more comprehensive base "3DL Uber" shader presets (like the Uber Iray ones) which would replace the Iray channels with the original 3DL ones (including lighting model) and not still leave you with the Iray parameter channels? 've tried converting from both and going from Poser is so much simpler. as usually the settings that need the most attention are Ambient (which is often turned up), Lighting Model, and the employment of Reflection Maps rather than setting the Lighting Model to "Glossy Plastic".
...I was just about to mention this myself.
What about them are you expecting a PA to create one - I thought thats what Wowie was doing. There are other tweaks that Poser mats need in 3dl Bump doesn't transfer well nor do Normal maps along with laying and Poser procedurals, ever tried converting some of Surrelity's Poser mats to 3dl takes a lot longer than converting something made for Iray to 3dl.
...he is working on a fairly comprehensive shader system for 3DL, however it is not like clicking on the Iray Uber Base to optimise all a model's shaders for Iray (which is the base conversion method) as it is "opening" more doors to what 3DL is really capable of.
True, one would be able to apply these over the corresponding Iray shader to get the 3DL parameters, however this will also depend on how the material zones are assigned to a model as well as how the mesh is constructed (the latter for using the Geometry editor to create a new "surface"). For example take a model of say a building that uses a photo reference for the textures may have only one zone per side and the top with the underlying mesh a fairly simple cube primitive relying on bump and normal maps instead of fully modelled features. How does one go about assigning individual 3DL shaders to that? Not even the geometry editor will help.
Anyway, with Otoy's announcement, the need for a high VRAM state of the art GPU is no longer as important as it is for Iray, and the cost for a subscription is very reasonable.(there is even a free tier).