Rigidity groups and keeping hard surfaces hard... not working!

I'm currently trying to get my SuperSuit set over to Genesis 3 and 8, I'm done with the getting things refitted but there is that niggly bit of work to do to get weight maps working better here and there and there are the SuperShorts that have a belt and buckle.  The buckle I set up a rigidity group and made sure those polys were included but to no avail.  I pose G3M with one my home grown flight poses and the buckle now looks like an egg!  lol  It's supposed to be round! 

Suggestions?

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Comments

  • A Rigidity Groups has nothing to do with posing, it is to protect the area from defomration due to projected morphs (morphs set in the figure it is fitted to and which are not explicitly placed in the fitted item already). A Rigid Follow Node will maintain itself for both poses and morphs. Editing the weights so theya re uniform across the item will also preserve it. Of course making the item rigid by either method may then require adding a morph to keep it from getting buried in the figure in certain poses.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    Hmmm, OK.  Where do I set up a Rigid Follow Node Richard?  Didn't see that or perhaps I wasnt' looking for it so I didn't see it!  lol

  • Hiro ProtagonistHiro Protagonist Posts: 668
    edited February 2018
    RAMWolff said:

    Hmmm, OK.  Where do I set up a Rigid Follow Node Richard?  Didn't see that or perhaps I wasnt' looking for it so I didn't see it!  lol

    Select your item and go to the Geometry Editor Tool. Select a polygon or small group of polygons where you would like the node then right-click and select Geometry Assignment. In that submenu you will find Create Rigid Follow Node from Selected. You will then see the node parented to the appropriate bone in the Scene tree for the item. Position and parent you object to that. I use this quite a lot—it's very handy for jewellery and such.

    You will also see red/blue/green crosshairs where the node is positioned in the viewport. If they get on your nerves, hide the node in the Scene tab (it will still work).

    Post edited by Hiro Protagonist on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    Thank you so much!  :-)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    OK, finally had a moment to try this out.  Not working.  I have taken a screen shot of the added rigidity groups (inner buckle and outer buckle) but upon posing Genesis Male 8 in a flight pose I made the buckle goes oblong.  :-(

    ScreenHunter_93 Mar. 23 11.58.png
    1151 x 806 - 351K
  • gederixgederix Posts: 369

    Is the buckle still part of the belt? If it is 'fitted' it will distort. You could try with two belts, hide the buckle on the first and fit it to your figure, hide the belt on the second so its just a buckle. On the first belt create a rigid follow node where the buckle should be, the manually position the 'buckle only belt' where the buckle should be, then parent it to the rigid follow node. 

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    The whole thing is welded but the surfaces allow for bits to be turned off and on.  I know there is a way to make this work but I don't know how.  That sort of work around won't work for a salable product which is what I'm working on! 

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    After doing a little research on YouTube I did find a handy tutorial but it's older so the Rigidity area was moved to the Vertex panel and after asigning the needed verts to the References area I'm still getting the deformations so not sure what's going on now.... sad

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    OK forgot to make a Weight Map Rigid map but that still giving me the same distortion... I'm out of ideas!  :-(

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,690

    Where is that "do not distort" button?

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    HAHAHA  Yea, where is that?  :p

  • Rigidity Groups are for controlling projected morphs (morphs on the base figure, with AutoFollow on, which are not in the fitted item). It is not for affecting how transforms affect the model, that is what the weight maps are for (and JCMs, or perhaps Rigid Follow Nodes)

  • MadaMada Posts: 863

    You can try selecting all the polygons in the buckle and smooth it at 100% - that will make the weightmap more even. I would recommend to try setting the buckle up as a rigid follow node, it will be much easier to use :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    OK, where is the Rigid Follow node located?  I've tried every area of the geometry and weight map area to get this darned buckle to stay in the shape it was intended to be in always with the deformed egg shape in this test flight pose.  Can't imagine what it looks like in other poses!  LOL

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    Yes, found that.  I'm still a little confused though.  My shorts are a solid piece, but with surfaces that I can select.  So I'm supposed to move the belt buckle where?  It's not like an ear ring.  I wish there was a video tutorial so I could see how this is done for a piece of clothing like mine.  I did write to DAZ Help and asked them to update their data base with more info on this.  Told the type of clothing I was working with.  Perhaps Josh could make up a video tutorial on how to work with clothing with solid pieces of geometry like belt buckles, snaps and buttons....

  • A Rigid Follow Node requires a parentable prop, it can't be part of the base mesh, so you'd haev to split the buckle out. It does look as if that would work here, it doesn't have loops or the like that have to stay aligned with the belt leather.

  • MadaMada Posts: 863
    edited March 2018

    For the belt buckle that you have - use the geometry editor tool to hide everything except the belt buckle and export that as an obj. Now hide the belt buckle and use delete hidden polygons to get rid of the buckle geo. Save as a new item with a different name so you don't overwrite the outfit with the buckle included. Now you can import that buckle as a prop and add it as a rigid follow node on your new shorts.

    Post edited by Mada on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    Hmmm, while I appreciate that helpful info you two not sure if I want to go that route.  I've already made morphs for the shorts so I'd have to remake all those.  :-(

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 3,379
    edited March 2018
    RAMWolff said:

    Hmmm, while I appreciate that helpful info you two not sure if I want to go that route.  I've already made morphs for the shorts so I'd have to remake all those.  :-(

    IANA content creator, and I may be totally off base ... but would it work to follow Mada's suggestion AND rework the materials/surface areas for the belt and buckle that remain part of the shorts, so that the buckle that's physically part of the shorts is handled as part of the shorts material? (That is, the buckle becomes part of the belt material, and any leftover geometry hidden with a transmap, or chopped off if that wouldn't affect the morphs.) Unless you have separate belt/buckle morphs, that would mean that you could leave the shorts morphs alone, wouldn't it?

    That's a genuine question, by the by, I'm not trying to be snarky.

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • MadaMada Posts: 863

    If you delete the belt buckle geometry and then save as a new item you'll keep all the morphs, no need to redo. I love that feature in DS :)

  • Mada said:

    If you delete the belt buckle geometry and then save as a new item you'll keep all the morphs, no need to redo. I love that feature in DS :)

    But new morphs would need to be made on the updated OBJ, of course.

  • MadaMada Posts: 863
    Mada said:

    If you delete the belt buckle geometry and then save as a new item you'll keep all the morphs, no need to redo. I love that feature in DS :)

    But new morphs would need to be made on the updated OBJ, of course.

    yes that is true :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    I'm hoping that in a future version of DS that they actually make rigid areas like this easier to deal with.  All this work around stuff makes my head hurt!  *sigh*

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    OK, did it.  It works.  I was able to re-save out my morphs with the shorts buckle gone as they were still active.  Followed Mada's advice and made everything visible and deleted the buckle after I saved out the buckle as it's own geometry.  Imported the new buckle, selected 4 polys on G8M that would keep the buckle in the correct shape, put the buckle under the newly "Create Ridgid Follow Node from Selected" called "BuckleStay" and it works. 

    Now there is another option under that menu called "Set Ridgid Follow Node Reference from Selected" what is that used for?

    Lastly I now save out the buckle as a prop?  I don't have it boned, is that correct for this particular item?  I wouldn't think so since it's fully static.  Then there was a mention of saving out as a "Wearable Preset" so the buckle is just saved out as that or do I fully export it out File> Save As> Support Asset?

    Please advise!

    Thank so much!

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    I tried uploading an image to show my success but the stupid upload thingy isn't working... angry

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    Still needing some solid info on how to best export the buckle.  I have it parented under the navel / Abdomen area of GM8 with the proper geom selected on the figure so the buckle retains it's round shape and made that into a Rigid Follow Node but now I don't know what to do with this.  All I need is this info once and I'll write it down.  Got the rest of it but waiting for the finish so I can move forward. 

    Also this works on buttons and other bits?  But what if the bits are in a blowsy sort of clothing item?  I assume there is currently no way to make that work if it's not meant to be right up against the skin.  But that's a discussion for a later date

    I just need the finish on how to best export this buckle with the needed info embedded in it.  There was a mention of Wearable preset but that's where I can confused because for a salable product wouldn't I need to export the buckle as a Save As> Support Asset> Figure/Prop? 

    Please let me know,

    Thank you!

    Richard

  • Save the buckle as a prop asset in its own right, save the garment with the Rigid follow Node attached as a Wearables preset.

    A Rigid Follow Node will follow the reference polygons through transforms and morphs (though it may need tweaking in orientation) - that's what it's for.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,082

    OK, thanks so much Richard! 

  • 3WC3WC Posts: 718

    Sorry to necro this thread, but I have a related issue. I have a complicated harness that has many rigid parts to it. My initial solution was to give each rigid part its own bone parented to parts of the body, then they could be weight mapped to stay rigid. Would it be better to separate out all that geometry and make a rigid follow node for each part (8 to 10 different pieces)? And then would a wearable preset export out to a Poser cr2, or would I lose all the rigidity info?

    Part of the reason I am asking is because Transfer Utility seems to be broken in DS 4.10. Previously I imported the harness object to DS, used transfer utility with Merge Hierarchies checked, and my extra bones were preserved. Now, they are wiped out whether that option is checked or not.

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