Purchasing an affordable new computer better suited for 3D rendering
Epic82
Posts: 126
I have an HP Elitebook 8440p laptop. When I rediscovered Daz in 2015, I had close to no knowledge of 3D rendering. One of the main things I didn’t know is that it’s difficult to do 3D rendering on basic laptops, and when I rendered my first image, my entire computer shut down. I took it back to the used computer store I bought it from and that’s when I found out from a computer technician working there that if I wanted to do a lot of 3D rendering I would have to consider purchasing a more powerful laptop or a desktop computer. I didn’t have the money to purchase a new computer, and all he could do for me is upgrade my HP Elitebook 8440p from 4 GB of RAM to 16 GB of RAM.
Ever since then, I’ve been able to render images (as you can see here), but I’d like to create a large gallery of renders on my personal website. There are still some drawbacks to rendering images on a laptop that was never meant for 3D rendering that I would like to overcome with an affordable computer, either a laptop or desktop pc, better suited for it. An example of this drawback is when I load Mesozoic Badlands from Alessandro_AM and LMX3D and attempt to render it, my entire computer freezes and I have to restart it.
Daz’s new dForce physics engine can’t work with my HP Elitebook 8440p either. When I attempt to simulate cloth, a window pops up that says “Could not find a valid OpenCL device”. I’ve read through this thread to find out how to solve this problem. But I’m still unsure of what my computer needs for the dForce physics engine to work.
Now that tax season is here, I would like to purchase a new computer, but I’m on a budget. I’m looking for a desktop computer or laptop that’s not much more than 650 dollars that will allow me to do large, epic-scale renders without slowing my computer down too much. Does anyone know of any affordable computers I could consider purchasing? What computers, a laptop or a desktop pc, have all of Daz Studio’s system requirements and is around or under 650 dollars?
I considered purchasing the Acer Aspire E 15 E5-575G-57D4 because it's an affordable gaming laptop with an NVIDIA GeForce 940MX graphics processor. On this products page at amazon.com, I read that it can be upgraded with 32GB of RAM. What would be the advantages of upgrading this with 32 GB of RAM? Will this shorten my rendering time?
As you can probably tell from what I’ve typed here, I’m not the most tech-savvy person in the world. But I thought it would be best for me to ask these questions to those who are more experienced with 3D rendering than I am. I’ll appreciate your help.
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Comments
I’m in a similar place as in I need to spec up a computer for rendering as my laptop is no good.
From what I’ve researched so far it’s the graphic card that’s the important thing and I’m looking at an NVIDIA.
Ive come to the conclusion that it’s a desktop every time unless you can afford a Microsoft Surface Pro 2 all singing and dancing but at 2k it makes the eyes water, but I want one that runs on low power when not rendering so need to research what desktop setup can do that but I have a feeling the cost will be around the same price as you have in mind.
The problem with laptops is they are always going to costs lots more, from looking at other artists work I have decided CUDA and OctaneRender is important to me so I will be looking at the Gforce gtx range.
Ive been reading this https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/faqs/
land this https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-gpus
Im no expert when it comes to graphics but judging by some of the work by artists creating very good renders this is the kind of setup some are using.
32 gigs might not speed up your renders per se, but will allow you to use more 3d assets at high quality. For example you could use an 8k HDRI and all the 4k textures you want, unless you want to GPU render, in which case you'll have to fit your scene to the GPU RAM.
On the other hand I have never been in a position of thinking 'I hate how this computer has too much memory'. I've come to the conclusion that there is no such thing.
Other than the convenience of size and portability, a Laptop of equivalent spects to a desktop, will cost more. It might not even be available, but as the 10 series cards in laptops are almost the same as their desktop counterpart, this is less of an issue.
You want enough CPU cores, I'd consider AMD's Ryzen. 5 or 7 series.
16GB RAM minimum, better would be 32GB; it won't help with rendering (unless it drops to CPU, which will happen, but allows you to do more - you could have more than one instance of Studio running, with other software too. Even if a render drops to CPU, RAM won't have any real affect on render speed. NOTE: if there isn't enough RAM on the system, it can slow down due to swap (physical disks) being used instead.
Decent storage; 2TB or more via a mechanical drive due to costs (but an SSD could easily be used too); an SSD will help with some aspects so having the OS on it is an option, but won't help render speed by any noticeable amount. It would be a place to cut costs, but not sure it would be worth it.
10 Series NVidia Card to use IRAY, and the same applies to some other rendering software. I'd look for at least 8GB of RAM; tbh, my personal opinion is a 1080ti is a minimum, but everyone's budget won't accommodate a card with 8GB, nevermind the 1080ti.
I'm VERY tempted to say, wait and see what the new 11 (20 - or whatever they get termed) series cards from NVidia, which will start appearing sometime this year, and likely sooner not later.
Thank you three for your comments. I now have my eye on a CUK HP Pavilion 570 Tower PC at amazon.com. A company called Computer Upgrade King has refurbished older HP Pavilion 570 Tower PCs and has added a G4600 dual core processor, 16GB of RAM, and a 128 GB SSD to some. The one I want to purchase is around 675 dollars and has this list of features:
Can anyone with a computer with features similar or better than these tell me the advantages and/or disadvantages of using a computer like this for Daz Studio? I've read a section from this thread about Iray speed and NVIDIA cards, and it gives some useful information about GPUs. That section says GPUs do two things: they determine how fast you can move geometry around in your interface and add processing power to the rendering process. These are two of the main things I want to see improved with this new computer. I've grown rather tired of seeing my computer slow down when I attempt to move around large sets, certain types of hair (like the Buzzed Hair), and more than one figure in my scene. For example, creating my Queens of Egypt render was a somewhat long process becasue it contained three figures and a medium-sized set. Since this HP Pavilion 570 Tower PC has the NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1050 Ti graphics card, does this mean it will be much easier to move large sets around? How many figures could I load into the interface before the computer slows down? I've actually been able to do a lot with just 16GB of RAM on my HP Elitebook 8440p. So I guess buying this computer, which is more affordable to me than many others I've seen online, would give me a signiicantly more impressive performance. But I would like to get an idea of what I'll experience.
Personally, I wouldn't touch a G4600 with a 10 foot pole. One two cores? I recommend 4 cores minimum for 3D work. 1050ti is entry level. It won't get you far if you want epic scenes. If you can't afford much better, then I guess this is better than what you're working with now. But I recommend you try to stretch your budget to get a better CPU and at least a GTX1070 if you can. If you can't, at least you will be able to run Dforce and your renders won't shut down (as long as they aren't too big). If you've been creating satisfying art with your old laptop, it will be easier with this computer but I'm not sure how future proof this entry level setup will be. But if your budget is constraining you, this is ok. I'd just be wary of a CPU with only 2 cores.
There is no such thing as an affordable/cheap PC that can do epic renders.
$675 will build you a decent desktop as far as the CPU and RAM goes, but you will need another $675 for a GPU worth talking about.
It sucks, I know, but there is no way to avoid an expensive PC that does epic renders. Unfortunately, "crack head deals" on PCs do not come around as often as they do for musical instruments and home entertainment systems and big screen TVs.
Thank you drzap and DrNewcenstein for your comments. I'll consider waiting until I save more money for a more powerful computer. Honestly, for someone like me who only wants to do this as a hobby and doesn't make an impressive amount of money, spending over 1000 dollars for a computer is almost a waste. I could spend that much money on something more important to me, like a new used car. But I'm passionate about 3D rendering, and I would like to have at least the bare minimum. I've found another HP Pavilion 570 Tower PC that has all of the same features as the one I described above except that this one has an Intel Core i5-7400 Qaud Core Processor (6MB Cache, 3.0GHz-3.5GHz). It's 800 dollars, and from what everyone has told me here, it seems to fulfill only the most basic requirements for 3D rendering. But could anyone give me an idea of what I could accomplish with this computer? The other computer I'm considering is the CyberPowerPC Gamer Ultra GUA4500A. Here is a list of the features:
System: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz Six-Core | AMD 760G chipset | 16GB DDR3 | 1TB HDD | 120GB SSD | 24x dvd+-rw | genuine Windows 10 home 64-bit
Graphics: NVIDIA GTX1060 6GB video card | VR ready | audio: 7.1 channel | Gigabit LAN | keyboard and mouse
Connectivity: 6x USB 2.0 | 1x RJ-45 network Ethernet 10/100/1000 | 1x HDMI | 1x DVI | 1x Display port
What do you think of the features of this CyberPowerPC? Thank you all for helping me make this decision.
Personally, I don't think AMD is as good as an Intel, and I wouldn't go lower than an i7.
My Surface Book 2 [2017] just died and nearly took me with it. I want to leave a warning here for anyone with a Surface Book 2017 model with the i7. They are still selling them on Amazon. When I got mine, I was singing its praises because it weighed less than 3 pounds and I noticed graphic artists were buying it. The biggest drawback to these ultra-light PCs is that the battery is non-removable/replaceable. My PC's fan went out suddenly, without warning, six months ago. I had noticed yellow stains on the sides and top, and that it didn't close as tightly. That worried me, being a former computer tech, so I researched. Let me tell you, there is not much info out there about this problem. I put an external USB fan on the machine and thought this would be ok. It was not! If your fan quits, you need to run, not walk to your nearest Microsoft Store and let them look at it. At 2 years old, yes, it was out of warranty, but the screen was swollen enough they could tell that the battery was a victim of overheating, caused by their manufacturing defect. They gave me a new Surface Book 3 [new to me, obviously refurbished, but an equivalent machine]. If it's within 3 years, they will replace it, but I could have had to pay for the replacement, according to the lady who set up my service appointment an hour and a half later. Don't get a Microsoft Surface for your DAZ work. If you have one, watch for it not closing all the way, getting hot in the middle above the keyboard on the screen, yellow stains on the display. The design flaw is putting the battery so near the CPU chip. I felt of it often to see how hot it was getting. I didn't get burned, and mind you, I am 61 years old with thin skin. Yet my lithium-ion battery was very close to catching on fire. If it had, I probably wouldn't have survived. I live in a mobile home. They burn to the ground in 2 mins. I am mobility challenged and can't get out of bed in 2 mins.
My point is this. Get a laptop with a removable battery, or a desktop. Don't get a Surface for DAZ. Just say no.
As for getting back on subject, my next PC will be a workstation with at least 32 GB RAM, at least an i7, and I agree with the NVIDIA GTX1060 with 6 GB recommendation. I'd like to hear some discussion of how it compares to the NVIDIA Quatro :) As I advise everyone I know who's in the market for a new PC, get as much hard drive as you can afford. You will fill it up. The line between gaming computers and workstations [PC's made for rendering] is blurring, but I think a workstation is still preferable to a gaming PC. I am open to other's opinions, however. :)
Hopefully my Surface 3 will last a year or two longer until I have to face the decision of what to buy. Y'all have a good day!
As for the choice it's really everything in the vcard and ram. If you can afford it a RTX2070 with 32gb ram would be better than a GTX1060 with 16gb. Also consider that the future is RTX so buying a GTX now doesn't make much sense.
That said I do work with a $700 1060 16gb rig that I built myself and everything goes fine here until I try XXL scenes. Next year I'll probably pass to amd cards, unless nvidia comes out with something. But I export to blender for production, if you only use iray you're stuck with nvidia.
Personally, as an IT professional, there is presently almost no reason to buy any Intel CPU. For desktop uses the only people who should buy Intel are professional gamers who really need 3 to 5 more fps at 1080. In the enterprise if all you do is AVX512 then a Xeon might make some sense but for everything else AMD flat out is better at lower purchase price and TCO.
You thought a fan stopping and obvious battery leakage was ok?
Removable batteries are pointless. A tech can replace the battery on most laptops in a few minutes even if it isn't "removable." The exceptions are Macbooks and some other thin and lights which have the battery sodlered in. But no one should be doing any heavy work of any kind on thin and lights.
Graphic artists bought the Surface not for rendering but for sketching/drawing.
On desktop vs. workstations unless you make money rendering or simply have that much disposable income don't buy a workstation, or HEDT, grade computer. That's overkill for DS.
A 1060 is a barely adequate card and should only be bought if you find one at a amazing price on eBay/Craigslist. The 2060 at $300 or 2060 Super at $400 are vastly superior. Advise on best choices from 2 years ago isn't really valid today.
With all due respect, you have not been paying attention. AMD is crushing Intel across the board. This is an objective truth and the word "personally" has no legitimate function there.
The cpu has very little to do with rendering performances in iray. It is used mostly to load the scene and may be some modifiers for animation. Also what counts is the single thread performance since cpu multithreading is almost not used by daz studio. So for example having 4 or 8 threads is the same.
Then of course if you use cpu rendering the best cpu the better.