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Which DAZ Genesis 8 M/F characters are the most realistic/beautiful?

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  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    edited January 2018
    Serene Night said:

    I tend to think the 3d females  look alike to me... And somewhat toony in general.  I use only the base skins from characters and dial my own figures. I'd say most of the gen 8 male and female line have good base skins. A good morph set will allow you to dial what you personally find attractive. For me- it is usually not the same thing others think of as good-looking.

    I think we've always agreed on that.. We've been having this same opinion since Genesis started and the best skin we could agree on was by Danie and her Metro collection... unfortunately she doesn't make characters anymore..  Hopefully something new will start jumping out at us soon... :) 

    The example is via V4's skin Milan... :)

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  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929

    I think it's the overly large and symmetric breasts that ruin more renders of female 3D models than anything else. I don't think their lack of blemishes make them look cartoonish as that's more true of women than men in real life too. 

     I've seen some really good renders in the gallery lately though especally expression wise.

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    edited January 2018
    nonesuch00 said:

     I don't think their lack of blemishes make them look cartoonish as that's more true of women than men in real life too. 

     I've seen some really good renders in the gallery lately though especally expression wise.

    For the sake of improving things, I think its important to address this lack of realism... It's what most of the product creators don't want to hear but it has to be said...

    It's not just "blemishes" that give the appearance of realism.. its ALL the details that make us who we are.. tan lines are big one.. How many characters do we see being produced at this very moment where the entire characters skin has no hair, no pours, no anything but bland monotone colored skin?  I mean.. basically most of these models, they put a different name on a new morph and rush it out to market but the details are scrubbed.   Let's not forget palm prints and hand prints.. how many times have I gone to make a character only to find out that the palms have no lines on them and the fingers have no prints?  Top side of the arm should look different then the bottom side and almost everybody has a viens you can see.. even if only lightly...

    Characters have names because they should each be UNIQUE but how many times do we see the same washed out look?  I mean.. not to name names but how can anybody even pretend like some of these recent character look anything like a real human being?

    Clearly they don't and the person who made this character doesn't care that it looks like a cartoon (and probably by design) but it's not something that will ever get my hard earned money.. The best characters look like photographs of real people.

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  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    SnowPheonix said:
    nonesuch00 said:

    This same question about G8 characters was asked not too long ago and my favorite remains Elizabeth for Victoria 8 but I have now bought G8 males too and my favorite is Lucus 8. I almost would have picked Tyrone for Darius 8 (both regular and albino) as for most renders he and his hair are great quality but for nude render there is visible seam when he has anatomical elements attached. I've written a ticket and they gave me a solution of uninstalling and reinstalling my G8 content that worked all of one render before the problem returned. Its not that frustrating since it was only a test render but you have to evaluate and rate a product from head to toe and that one has a problem.  My tests with Lucas 8 & Michael 8 no longer have this problem after the DAZ 3D suggested remedy.

    I look at Elizabeth and I see a character whose skin is cartoonish and lacking any sign of realism.. no sign of pours, hairs, veins or any real details..   it's a beautifully shaped morph in a really generic rapper...

    Agreed a thousand times over. FW characters have beautiful morphs but for realistic skin they are not where you point someone.

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750
    SnowPheonix said:
    Clearly they don't and the person who made this character doesn't care that it looks like a cartoon (and probably by design) but it's not something that will ever get my hard earned money.. The best characters look like photographs of real people.

    Agreed... I'd rather pay for a well made texture without the "figure" behind.

    https://www.daz3d.com/old-chap-for-genesis-3-and-8-male is very nice. Wrinkles, age spots and everything...

  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 2,235
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

     

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896

    I have to give a special mention to a very recent acqusition of mine... Celestia For Gen 3 and 8.by Mousso.  I had to make some minor adjustments on the amount of reflectivity the skin had and I added some HD morphing from another character... then I figured I should just post the render and see if she inspired you too.  Anyways... Keep up the great work and hopefully people are going to keep pushing the boundries.

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  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

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  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929
    edited January 2018
    SnowPheonix said:
    nonesuch00 said:

     I don't think their lack of blemishes make them look cartoonish as that's more true of women than men in real life too. 

     I've seen some really good renders in the gallery lately though especally expression wise.

    For the sake of improving things, I think its important to address this lack of realism... It's what most of the product creators don't want to hear but it has to be said...

    It's not just "blemishes" that give the appearance of realism.. its ALL the details that make us who we are.. tan lines are big one.. How many characters do we see being produced at this very moment where the entire characters skin has no hair, no pours, no anything but bland monotone colored skin?  I mean.. basically most of these models, they put a different name on a new morph and rush it out to market but the details are scrubbed.   Let's not forget palm prints and hand prints.. how many times have I gone to make a character only to find out that the palms have no lines on them and the fingers have no prints?  Top side of the arm should look different then the bottom side and almost everybody has a viens you can see.. even if only lightly...

    Characters have names because they should each be UNIQUE but how many times do we see the same washed out look?  I mean.. not to name names but how can anybody even pretend like some of these recent character look anything like a real human being?

    Clearly they don't and the person who made this character doesn't care that it looks like a cartoon (and probably by design) but it's not something that will ever get my hard earned money.. The best characters look like photographs of real people.

    Well that's nice.

    I'm interested in clothing and hair physics that are reasonably realistic than a 3D modeler making a model so realistic that I think it is a photo. That is why my money spent here will be decreasing, not because DAZ needs to up the realism on their skin textures.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    I would much rather have the option to add missing details like body hair through other means than be stuck with them as part of the image textures. I also don't NEED lines on the hands that properly belong in the model itself. 

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    Daywalker Designs said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    I would much rather have the option to add missing details like body hair through other means than be stuck with them as part of the image textures. I also don't NEED lines on the hands that properly belong in the model itself. 

    Good news.. You have that option already...   add as much as you want.. nobody is stopping you.   You will always have that option.. now let's get on with the business of making a photo realistic human characters that doesn't tie up endless memory resources because you had to add 5 layers and geometry shells to add freckles viens and everything that normal human being have already ... You want generic characters, you have a lot of options.. enjoy.  Personally... I like to push the edge and see if I can fool people.. but I need the best products to do it...  Keep up the good work and happy rendering.

     

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  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,740
    edited January 2018

    I know different people have different tastes in beauty but the OP was specifically looking for beautiful model types and I really think Pepper by Addy fits the bill as both gorgeous and realistic. But again I'm sure there will be those who disagree... (That may not be the original body though, I can't remember now. But it's definitely her face morph and skin.)

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  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,313

    It doesn't matter how realistic the product is, if your lighting posing etc is off then it will look unreal.

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750
    SnowPheonix said:

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    Though I am a great fan of my fellow german Diane Heidkrüger, using her as an example for "real people" might raise expectations a bit too much. I would bet that picture is the result of at least 30 minutes with a makeup artist and some photoshopping... so "real looking skin" isn't what I would call it.

    Alas, it still looks a lot more real than some of the skins used for DAZ figures devil

  • TynkereTynkere Posts: 834
    maikdecker said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Clearly they don't and the person who made this character doesn't care that it looks like a cartoon (and probably by design) but it's not something that will ever get my hard earned money.. The best characters look like photographs of real people.

    Agreed... I'd rather pay for a well made texture without the "figure" behind.

    https://www.daz3d.com/old-chap-for-genesis-3-and-8-male is very nice. Wrinkles, age spots and everything...

     

    Think the OP accidentally started quite the discussion here!

    That's a cool link.  "Old Chap" on wishlist & would pull trigger, but brings up another issue as long as we're talking about resources.

    What hair, cap & shirt did they use for the promo?

    I have pants & shoes that would probably go with "Old Chap" but don't think he'd look right with hair & outfits that come with younger male characters.  Most of these are either skin-tight, or hipster chic.

    My preference is Norman Rockwell style scenes that hopefully tell a story.

    Every time I find business shirt, unisex warmup suit, or loose fitting clothing-- most anything I think people would actually wear in wear life-- it's always.

    "For V4.  For M4"

    So what's the deal here?  Established users already have these items?  DAZ thinks 'normal' clothing wouldn't sell?  My search skills stink?  laugh

    Clothing & hair are really proving a problem, so if not 'hijacking' (assume OP has plenty of suggestions now) suggestions for these resources?

    Thanks for reading!

    --Bruce

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,631
    edited January 2018
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    the first realistic render i see here

    Post edited by Ruphuss on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    Ruphuss said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    the first realistic render i see here

    That's because it's a photo.

  • ZyloxZylox Posts: 787
    Tynkere said:

    Think the OP accidentally started quite the discussion here!

    That's a cool link.  "Old Chap" on wishlist & would pull trigger, but brings up another issue as long as we're talking about resources.

    What hair, cap & shirt did they use for the promo?

    I have pants & shoes that would probably go with "Old Chap" but don't think he'd look right with hair & outfits that come with younger male characters.  Most of these are either skin-tight, or hipster chic.

    The balding hair is https://www.daz3d.com/riccardo-hair-for-genesis-3-male-s.

    I don't recall which beard it is, perhaps https://www.daz3d.com/whiskers-for-genesis-3-male-s?

    The hat might be one of these?

    https://www.daz3d.com/chunky-knit-sweater-outfit-for-genesis-3-male-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/manhattan-hair-and-newsboy-cap-for-genesis-3-female-s-and-male-s

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,631
    agent unawares said:
    Ruphuss said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    the first realistic render i see here

    That's because it's a photo.

    maybe read between the lines

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    Ruphuss said:
    agent unawares said:
    Ruphuss said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    the first realistic render i see here

    That's because it's a photo.

    maybe read between the lines

    Not enough eyeroll gifs in the world for this.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    Ruphuss said:
    agent unawares said:
    Ruphuss said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    the first realistic render i see here

    That's because it's a photo.

    maybe read between the lines

    I don't have to: the request is for a level of detail that's simply not needed 98% of the time to create an image that's nearly impossible to distinguish from a similarly sized photo.
  • TynkereTynkere Posts: 834
    edited January 2018
    Zylox said:
    Tynkere said:

    Think the OP accidentally started quite the discussion here!

    That's a cool link.  "Old Chap" on wishlist & would pull trigger, but brings up another issue as long as we're talking about resources.

    What hair, cap & shirt did they use for the promo?

    I have pants & shoes that would probably go with "Old Chap" but don't think he'd look right with hair & outfits that come with younger male characters.  Most of these are either skin-tight, or hipster chic.

    The balding hair is https://www.daz3d.com/riccardo-hair-for-genesis-3-male-s.

    I don't recall which beard it is, perhaps https://www.daz3d.com/whiskers-for-genesis-3-male-s?

    The hat might be one of these?

    https://www.daz3d.com/chunky-knit-sweater-outfit-for-genesis-3-male-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/manhattan-hair-and-newsboy-cap-for-genesis-3-female-s-and-male-s

    Thanks for reply.  Lot of potential for him.  Gets tiresome having young impossibly gorgeous people in every render.  Where is the variety!  "Old Chap & Aging Morphs" here I come!

    Sorry for interrupting discussion.  'Back to regular programming' as they say.  : )

     

    --Bruce

    Post edited by Tynkere on
  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    scorpio said:

    It doesn't matter how realistic the product is, if your lighting posing etc is off then it will look unreal.

    Indeed, and it's incredible how many folks think light isn't going to have some impact on what you can see in skin textures.
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,764

    "Personally... I like to push the edge and see if I can fool people."

    LOL You never will "fool" anyone rational person with your Daz figure renders.

    Sorry Matecool
      ... not in this day and age
    Certainly Not with DAZ figures with their poor eye geometry and 1990's
    era transmapped hair.

    And I am only talking about  stills.
    Forget about "Fooling" anyone with an animated  DAZ figure.

    Hollywood had years and millions of dollars and hundreds of 
    professionals to try and recreate the youthful version of Sean Young's
     "Racheal" Character for "Blade Runner  2049"

    They had thousands of reference photos of the actress curated over the years,
    and still got her facial shape wrong and the moment she spoke the whole thing fell apart
    immediately.
    Just like Peter Cushing's "Tarken"  in "Rogue One"

    You have a home computer ,alot of enthusiam and content made for Mass distribution
    at the cheapest possible price to recoup the loss leader costs
    of maintaining a freeware consumer character program.

    With these resources, You will never..ever!!   fool anyone who is not legally blind
    and  who has ever seen a real life human being.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,861

    Rachel was massively better than Tarkin though. I would say "fell apart" is very strong language. It was off a bit when she started to get teary, they would have been better off letting her stare blankly longer. But damn I mean it was near perfect overall. Given that some people were (inexplicably to me) fooled by Tarkin like a female friend of mine who didn't know much about Star Wars and hence didn't know the actor was long dead, I'd say if people somehow didn't know anything about Rachel they could've easily been fooled into thinking this was a real actress.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,929

    All that sort of reminds me of years ago when there was so much talk about the great job they did on Russell Crowe's old man John Nash makeup in 'A Beautiful Mind'. No, it looked like a rubber mask. 

  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750
    Tynkere said:
     

    Clothing & hair are really proving a problem, so if not 'hijacking' (assume OP has plenty of suggestions now) suggestions for these resources?

    I had the fortune to get https://www.daz3d.com/hair-set-for-genesis-8-male-s while it was on a sale a short while ago. Still a long way to go to get all I need for that "Old Biker Look" I want to go for.

    On G8 using a partial morph of Old Chap gives nice results for aged males of ~50ish years of age.

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    Tynkere said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

     

    ---
    Males are more difficult for me because they all look to have had wax jobs.  : 0 !

     

    First off.. THANK YOU for all the test renders you did.. that was pretty awesome of you...  I think you hit the crux of my thought when you mentioned this... Where is the hair?  All human beings have hair.. even woman have facial hair.. they don't like you to see it but everybody has 'peach fuzz' at the very least.. micro-hairs are a fairly huge detail that makes a big difference in close up pictures but as you noticed.. "they all look to have had wax jobs."...  Realism is in those 'little details' that make us all unique and nobody wants to have to spend half an hour searching around to add freckles and add hair and all those things that should come with a unique character 'out of the box'..
     

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    wolf359 said:

    "Personally... I like to push the edge and see if I can fool people."

    LOL You never will "fool" anyone rational person with your Daz figure renders.

    Sorry Matecool
      ... not in this day and age
    Certainly Not with DAZ figures with their poor eye geometry and 1990's
    era transmapped hair.

    And I am only talking about  stills.
    Forget about "Fooling" anyone with an animated  DAZ figure.

    Hollywood had years and millions of dollars and hundreds of 
    professionals to try and recreate the youthful version of Sean Young's
     "Racheal" Character for "Blade Runner  2049"

    They had thousands of reference photos of the actress curated over the years,
    and still got her facial shape wrong and the moment she spoke the whole thing fell apart
    immediately.
    Just like Peter Cushing's "Tarken"  in "Rogue One"

    You have a home computer ,alot of enthusiam and content made for Mass distribution
    at the cheapest possible price to recoup the loss leader costs
    of maintaining a freeware consumer character program.

    With these resources, You will never..ever!!   fool anyone who is not legally blind
    and  who has ever seen a real life human being.

    OMG... Rachael wasn't real?  Fooled me.  Are you sure?  LOL

    I disagree with you on so many levels its really very shocking to me because I feel like I should be buying stock in DAZ 3d.. I mean.. to me its a cutting edge tool that they have wisely provided as part of a genius marketing stratagy.

    I think DAZ3d has the best potential to be the market leader which is exactly why I'm hear providing them with positive feedback so they continue to improve the products and to date.. they have surpassed all my expectations and provided me with a great product that you are selling short... now.. don't take this wrong but if you can't make brilliant realist graphics with the tools provided.. it's the user, not the product.  They still have a lot of room for improvement on character skins but somebody in DAZ land has been listening to me all the while and responding to every issue I've ever touched on. 

    In the overall scheme of things.. I'm very pleased with the progress being made.  The best is yet to come.. happy rendering!  This would fool anybody.. LOL

     

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  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    Daywalker Designs said:
    Ruphuss said:
    agent unawares said:
    Ruphuss said:
    SnowPheonix said:
    Vyusur said:
    Mistara said:

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    +1

    No doubt but realism is revealed through the microdetails that are still percieved at a distance.  I think a lot of times people almost forget what real people look like because we spend our time looking at unreal characters but really .. .with the current technology that we have.. every picture we render should be looking completely real because the model has real looking skin.. we have the morphs and articulation in Genesis 8 already.. what we need is real skin to cover them.

    the first realistic render i see here

    That's because it's a photo.

    maybe read between the lines

     

    I don't have to: the request is for a level of detail that's simply not needed 98% of the time to create an image that's nearly impossible to distinguish from a similarly sized photo.

    If the details are needed 2 percent of the time.. they should still be built into the product.  Even at a distance, we always percieve those subtle, minor details.. or at least people do in my pictures since they are in it.  Anyways... the good news is that you already have all that you need so happy rendering.

    Thanks for sharing what you think is the most beautiful and realistic characters for Gen 8

This discussion has been closed.