3Delight Surface and Lighting Thread

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  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,641
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    Actually my new HDRI light maps create chromatic aberration in DS as a result of indirect direct shadows
    however chromatic aberration is result of a camera lens
    I fake it before in Carra grouping 3 light together red-green-blue for the (fake full spectrum ) with a nice result did not tried it in DS

    wowie said:
    I have a question. How do you make chromatic aberration in DS?

    Cath, you are always cutting edge! :)

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    Actually my new HDRI light maps create chromatic aberration in DS as a result of indirect direct shadows
    however chromatic aberration is result of a camera lens
    I fake it before in Carra grouping 3 light together red-green-blue for the (fake full spectrum ) with a nice result did not tried it in DS

    wowie said:
    I have a question. How do you make chromatic aberration in DS?


    Demo ?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    Actually my new HDRI light maps create chromatic aberration in DS as a result of indirect direct shadows
    however chromatic aberration is result of a camera lens
    I fake it before in Carra grouping 3 light together red-green-blue for the (fake full spectrum ) with a nice result did not tried it in DS

    wowie said:
    I have a question. How do you make chromatic aberration in DS?

    Which is why it is so hard to do in 3Delight...essentially, we've got a 'perfect' lens, so none of the typical lens flaws show up. There needs to be some 'imperfection' introduced somewhere in the math...whether it is an actual 'spectrum' in the lights, some way of tweaking a camera to have a lens (or at least behave as if it does) or something else, it is often just easier to do it completely in post...

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249
    edited December 1969

    For that you need a real spectrum light so the lens can split it into single colors what happen for example by glass and coustics
    the chromatic aberration from the HDRI light map I tested was very delicate effect , mostly tint in little blue and red but not shifting of the image as camera lens do ( I wonder if there is possible to get this effect with the camera )
    when I have more time soon I will get deeper into it and show you some results , at this moment finishing other stuff so I can't let myself go how much I wish LOL but I am on a nice new path with it ..

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969

    Mec4D said:
    Actually my new HDRI light maps create chromatic aberration in DS as a result of indirect direct shadows
    however chromatic aberration is result of a camera lens
    I fake it before in Carra grouping 3 light together red-green-blue for the (fake full spectrum ) with a nice result did not tried it in DS

    That's good to hear.

    I wonder whether or not it is possible to write a camera shader/post processing effect to get 'fake' aberration (and other lens effects). But I don't know whether or not the performance hit justifies it. It will probably be a lot quicker to do it in postwork (still and video).

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249
    edited December 1969

    camera shader based on the mat would take a lot to render
    each other programs use just post processing effects
    but it was really interesting to see coming from the light maps as I never saw it before

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969

    @Wowie : The two renderers are very interresting Wowie. However it's a pity it is only again limited to Autodesk Product in order to use them
    OK I know that Autodesk is pretty much almost the only 3D Package Provider in the Industry

    I thought of using the GPU a long time ago to speed up renders inside DS but didn't have time to try anything
    In term of hardware, because of ATI not pushing up OpenCL to be better you end up choosing Nvidia because almost every GPU renders are made for CUDA
    The OpenCL Standard changed last year in order to catch up with Cuda, if I'm correct, but it takes time for the implementation.
    I'd like it to be better because OpenCL would work on both AMD and Nvidia

    Btw, if you can use Blender a bit, you can try Corona render. I did a quick test the other day with it and it was blazing fast on CPU. Don't know yet how it would go if I was trying chromatic aberration or more complicated scenes. There are a bit too much new things to play with for me these days. Don't know how I could make days longer

    Well, they are arguably the biggest app developer for the 3d market. Their decision to discontinue Softimage is disappointing though.

    So far, the GPU renderers I've seen are not that fast. There's a comparison of various render engines in the Furryball developer's website:
    http://furryball.aaa-studio.eu/aboutFurryBall/compare.html
    http://furryball.aaa-studio.eu/speedCompareDx/index.html
    Granted it is not an independent test, but it is interesting to see. I would like see Renderman results in the newer test though.

    As for OpenCL with NVIDIA, yes you could say it works with NVIDIA hardware. :) They never bothered optimizing their hardware/software performance with that API though. This is the reason why I always laughed when I see render time comparisons between Luxrender and Octane using only NVIDIA hardware.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    I can't take seriously the comparison chart. It's marketting so I can't trust that as is...after all they want to sell their product. But still, Renderman's score is quite good on that one. Surprising

    About Nvidia vs AMD GPU charts, I think tests are valid. You know at least that Nvidia's OpenCL perf are crappy with it's gamer's Card and if you want to use Lux you have to buy ATI for the moment

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited March 2014

    I can't take seriously the comparison chart. It's marketting so I can't trust that as is...after all they want to sell their product. But still, Renderman's score is quite good on that one. Surprising

    Like I said, it's not an independent test. :)


    About Nvidia vs AMD GPU charts, I think tests are valid. You know at least that Nvidia's OpenCL perf are crappy with it's gamer's Card and if you want to use Lux you have to buy ATI for the moment

    Actually, it's not just 'gamer' cards. It's all NVIDIA cards.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-23.html

    Granted, this is an old test, but I don't think things have changed much.

    edit:
    AMD just release info on the upcoming Firepro cards. I was kinda expected they will up the RAM amount, but 16 GB? Wow.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • Type 0 NegativeType 0 Negative Posts: 323
    edited December 1969

    wowie said:
    Mec4D said:
    Actually my new HDRI light maps create chromatic aberration in DS as a result of indirect direct shadows
    however chromatic aberration is result of a camera lens
    I fake it before in Carra grouping 3 light together red-green-blue for the (fake full spectrum ) with a nice result did not tried it in DS


    That's good to hear.

    I wonder whether or not it is possible to write a camera shader/post processing effect to get 'fake' aberration (and other lens effects). But I don't know whether or not the performance hit justifies it. It will probably be a lot quicker to do it in postwork (still and video).


    camera shader based on the mat would take a lot to render
    each other programs use just post processing effects
    but it was really interesting to see coming from the light maps as I never saw it before I've got some camera/light sets that I've had trouble sharing. When I went to share it with some people the got different types of errors or they didn't work at all. I was trying to save them as scene subsets because I had a camera with lights parented to the camera and also a UberEnvironment2 in the scene. I use only DS4-64 I wonder if maybe a saved scene from 64 does not open in 32 programs or I'm doing something wrong in my saving. I can upload a set onto sharecg if some of you want to have a look; if someone had the time to help me out?
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969


    I've got some camera/light sets that I've had trouble sharing. When I went to share it with some people the got different types of errors or they didn't work at all. I was trying to save them as scene subsets because I had a camera with lights parented to the camera and also a UberEnvironment2 in the scene. I use only DS4-64 I wonder if maybe a saved scene from 64 does not open in 32 programs or I'm doing something wrong in my saving. I can upload a set onto sharecg if some of you want to have a look; if someone had the time to help me out?

    The solution is simple - don't use scene subsets for sharing camera/light presets. Pretty much like scene files, older builds have trouble opening them. You should use the respective presets instead. If you want the widest support, go with the deprecated presets (.dsa files) instead of the .duf ones. Light presets will save all light types (point,spot,directional/distant) including UE nodes.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited March 2014

    An update to my latest setup. I'm trying to get as to photo-realistic as I can. I've settled for two different light setups - one with very soft lighting (quite high ambient light) and a more harsh light (for dramatic effect).

    test2.jpg
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    test1.jpg
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    Post edited by wowie on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969

    Same setup, just with a different pose and angle.

    test4.jpg
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    test3.jpg
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  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,641
    edited December 1969

    Wow, Wowie - those look good!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited March 2014

    Wow, Wowie - those look good!

    Thanks. :)

    There's still room for improvement, but yes. I think so too. I'm basically using three distant light, two UE2 with progressive rendering. Each took about 4 and half minute to render on a Intel i7 4770.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,641
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the details. That's a real good render time, too!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited March 2014

    I'm using Mustakettu85 trick - using an edited DzDistantlights instead of the standard directional lights so they render a bit faster (using 16 samples). Only the sample count was changed, so the settings can be converted easily to use the standard lights or AoA's Advanced Distant Lights. I did a quick test sometime ago and find AoA's light renders faster and produce about the same quality even with 8 samples.

    I've gone back to using a single UE2 light though. Using two with different occlusion coverage caused some unwanted effects with some materials.

    Here are some shots with the M6 HD Addon Bjorn texture set, using the soft light preset. For the 2nd shot. I've turned off the offset diffuse/spec lights.

    3.jpg
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    2.jpg
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    1.jpg
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    Post edited by wowie on
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,641
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the extra info!

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249
    edited December 1969

    that are nice example wowie, I like the one with the additional light , more depth and not just ambient flat
    I was doing today my promos using just Advanced Ambient light and Advanced Distant light .. loved how the AO worked out
    no UE2 , no HDRI and so much faster, DAZ should include them as standard in DS

    Aviatrix_Mec4D_daz3d.com_pop_up8_.jpg
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    Aviatrix_Mec4D_daz3d.com_pop_up10_.jpg
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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Those are some great renders,

    I don't have anything to add or ask, I just know I want to subscribe here as I know I can learn something!

    CHEERS!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited March 2014

    Mec4D said:
    that are nice example wowie, I like the one with the additional light , more depth and not just ambient flat
    I was doing today my promos using just Advanced Ambient light and Advanced Distant light .. loved how the AO worked out
    no UE2 , no HDRI and so much faster, DAZ should include them as standard in DS

    Thanks.
    I think with a good dose of AO, some shadows and specular, you'll be able to simulate visual depth pretty well.

    I've also never used UE's image based lighting mode because I much prefer to get directional shadows from other lights (so I can control how soft or sharp the shadows are).

    AoA's light does render faster if you're using default materials. However, since I started using UberSurface on nearly everything, I found UE2 and US2 occlusion shading rate override fits better with my workflow. Tried using Adv Ambient Light to cast specular lights, but the results just seem 'off' with my materials.

    I tweaked the harsh light a bit, mainly to get the same color as with the soft light setup. Two renders - one with just one light and another with offset lights. I'm rotated the light's angle a bit for this shot. I probably shouldn't have done that.

    7.jpg
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    6.jpg
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    Post edited by wowie on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969

    Here are renders with the light at their default angles, which I think looks much better.

    9.jpg
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    8.jpg
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  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, you will need to have the full bundle of the Advanced light as just one of them will not work ,
    the advanced Ambient light specular is just to big in the scale or better say with to high value that why I use just diffuse skipping the specular, where I use it with advanced spot or distance light .
    I use mostly only Uber surfaces on all my stuff and it still render for me much faster with beautiful shading , and the best thing here is that you can apply the light to the surface , since ambient occlusion cast different on skin ( organic surface ) than on hard edge surface , this way you can adjust the AO for the specific materials where UE2 is behind with the settings , also UE2 does not works so well with SSS since the directional shadows request excellent HDRI maps that are unfortunately not provided so often , and just a color will do not the trick .. what is different with AOA lights what in my scenario is the best what can happen to DS so far regarding to light and shading
    P.S forgot to mention that the Advanced spot or distance light do not actually cast shadow in combination with Advanced Ambient light but block the light, the same way as direct light will do as we all know shadows does not exist and are nothing else than ambient light reflected from everything else than the main source of light like for example sun or a lamp .

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited April 2014

    I've fine tuned the skin a bit so it looks 'warmer'. Changed the eyelash so it's using US2 now and applied raytraced reflection to the eye surface/reflection surface. Below are test renders of a harsh lighting setup.

    Harsh2.png
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    Harsh1.png
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    Post edited by wowie on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    They look great!

    CHEERS!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:

    They look great!

    CHEERS!

    Wow, that's fast. :)
    Thanks a lot.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    That's what happens when the reminder bots are working!

    CHEERS!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,014
    edited December 1969

    A look at the teeth. I'm using a lot of SSS to get that translucent look.

    I may change the fresnel/specular settings for the gums/inner mouth/tongue Still looks off.

    teeth2.jpg
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    teeth1.jpg
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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,710
    edited April 2014

    My suggestion is to bring Up the specular to about 94 - 85% to where there is a gleam on them. When I zoom in it's all very smoothed out. Look in the mirror, you will see what I mean... Other than that, nice!

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
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