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I was surprised to see this resurrected. The pictures I posted early on in this thread are of the uniform not even nearly finished. Yes, there needs to be a pocket, and also there is a seam across the chest. The creases will not be added until the top is finished, what would be the point to do it early? As for the tightness, that's Genesis being a pain in the but with autofit. It is not modeled that tight. I was also in the Navy, so I am well aware of the uniform fit and the differences between the black and white uniforms. I have a product for M3 that is exactly this uniform set, which is why I am working on a Genesis version. Some of what you see in the pics above are directly from that uniform and have not been converted yet (ie, the hat and the neckerchief, which also wrinkled from Genesis transfer utility. This thread was just an early attempt to see the interest and to get suggestions such as you have given me today.
My response is not meant to be defensive, so I hope it doesn't sound that way. I just want you to know that I am already aware of the things you are saying. I am having issues with Genesis transfer utility messing up the work I have done, which is why you haven't seen any updates to this. Frankly, I figured I would spend some time learning more about DAZ Studio and transfer utility, etc, before I proceed with this. The hat has size morphs in it, by the way, for hair and larger heads. It also has morphs to adjust the position on the head as well as to give it a more "worn" look, as many of my shipmates liked to roll their hats and cock them to the side, etc.
A suggestion that would really help me a lot here would be how to get the black fabric to look better. I either get it too dark or too light. I want to see wrinkles, creases, etc, but not have it look dark gray. Too dark and you don't get those details. Make sense?
You bet.
Most "black" items are dark gray in their base fabric color (just as most "white" items are actually an off-white gray or cream). They generally have true black shading and lighter gray highlights added. Some artists paint these by hand. Some use an ambient occlusion, desaturated normal map, or other shaded bake of the wrinkles added to the texture. (I've done either or both, sometimes in the same item.)
In an ideal world this would be unnecessary and the creases and wrinkles would show up without needed to have them additionally highlighted, but that seldom works in a dark matte fabric. Almost the only time you get away with that is with a super shiny black vinyl where the wrinkles really SHOULD only show up in displacement (because of the different way the material receives shadows and highlights).
Well technically these were dark blue... as in Navy Blues ;)
I hadn't looked back at the original pictures... Yes I see what you mean about tight. They were tight in my estimation from getting them on and off since the fabric didn't stretch but you (both) are correct, they weren't 'that' tight. I apologize, I should have looked back at the pictures before responding.
Looking back at the pictures, I would revise what I said and agree with basically everything you said will2power. I don't remember a crease but that might easily be faulty memory.
Try adding a weave map in the bump channel. That will help break up the shine of specular hilights as well as shaded areas, making the fabric look much more realistic. Experiment with different specular colors, as well. Also, no matter how black fabric is supposed to be, it's never true black, because of the nature of fabric dyes. It will usually be very dark blue or very dark brown. Overdyed fabric, in which blue and brown dyes have been carefully balanced, will be dark grey. Small details like this help with realism, even though most people don't consciously notice them.
There used to be a script or plugin that converted displacements into morphs, actually.... I'll see if I can find it. I don't know if it will work with current versions of DS, and I don't know of a Poser equivalent. As for combining multiple displacement layers, it can be done in LIE in DS, but I wouldn't know how to set up an easy to use method in Poser.
Try adding a weave map in the bump channel. That will help break up the shine of specular hilights as well as shaded areas, making the fabric look much more realistic. Experiment with different specular colors, as well. Also, no matter how black fabric is supposed to be, it's never true black, because of the nature of fabric dyes. It will usually be very dark blue or very dark brown. Overdyed fabric, in which blue and brown dyes have been carefully balanced, will be dark grey. Small details like this help with realism, even though most people don't consciously notice them.
The texture I made for the suit in Photoshop is about RGB: 25,25,25 which is not true black. I then overlayed a weave texture onto that and used the same weave for a bump map. I guess I just need to go even lighter. If I go too light, I could always darken the diffuse to get it closer to what I want, I suppose. Since starting this thread I have gained a little more experience with fabric creation (I'm working on a sci fi suit, so I think I came up with a good shader that I can translate to the Navy uniform). Fortunately, I have also learned a thing or two about getting clothes to fit more loosely and to not take on the lumpy muscles underneath. It should go fairly well when I start working on it again.
I don't know if it applies to your case, but there are a few nice "papyrus" textures in MS Office. If you manage to simulate that pattern, it will look very good at most angles, I think.
If you're overlaying a weave onto a color that dark, it's going to come out even darker-- yes, I'd say you need to lighten it a bit before multiplying by a weave pattern. But even leaving that out, the bump will be at least as important as adding the weave to diffuse, because of the way it helps to break up specular areas. You might also want to put a weave map in the specular strength channel to break up the gloss even more.
I like how your SF suit is coming along, and I'm glad that's helping with this project as well. :)
Is this better for the uniform? Striping not added yet, of course, but I wanted to see what you all think of the general material.
I still feel like it could use a little more surface detail (knee/armpit wrinkles would be a start).
Can't really see much detail using the dark material shaders. Image should be uploaded larger since the forum software will only show it smaller until clicked on. I do agree though the slacks need more wrinkles at the seams, crotch and a definite crease down the front of each pant leg.
I'm only asking about the fabric, not the wrinkles and stuff. Of course it needs that... my question was about the fabric (too dark, too shiny, not bumpy enough, etc.) I agree that the render is too dark. Saw that after I posted it.
I'd say the shader and base are fine.