If you had $1,600 for a new build today
RA
Posts: 78
(which I do) what would you build?
I am new to 3d. I have an AMD with Radeon and am not satisfied with my renders.
I plan to build a machine dedicated to Iray renders and will also use this machine for video editing.
this link (https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207530513-System-Recommendations-for-DAZ-Studio-4-) suggests
Make sure your motherboard offers at least 8 lanes of PCI per GPU installed (Ideally 16 lanes per GPU). If you have 16 lanes per GPU you get the full performance, having only 8 lanes per GPU gets you around 80% of the GPU performance, this influences the decision to buy one large card over multiple smaller cards.
I am not certain how to select a motherboard that offers 16 lanes per GPU.
I am not certain how to ensure that the system can use 32 GB of RAM that the above link suggests.
I would like to go with a 1080 or 1080ti GPU.
I will definitely get adequate PS and cooling.
I like the idea of rolling back to W7 if I can find a copy.
Any thoughts on CPU, Motherboard or any other suggestions?
Thank you
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I'm in the process of doing just that, in fact yesterday I just bought a new machine I'm building with the prime purpose of running D|S.
My first thought is, unfortunately, now isn't the time to buy a new GPU. Prices have spiked recently due to some bitcoin nonsense, and many GPU prices are astronomical. You might want to wait a bit. I bought a GTX 1070 about a month ago for less than $400 USD, and now they're selling for almost $800.
However, if you do decide to buy, all I can tell you is what I decided on after much investigation.
The latest and greatest CPU's appear to be AMD Ryzens. At least those are the ones that mortals can afford. They have 8 cores, which means 16 threads. Now I'm not certain how much that will improve your D|S work, but it can't hurt
I also decided on 48GB, after throwing up my hands at the problems I encountered with only 16 GB. You need more.
The big thing with D|S is the GPU, as you've probably already heard. I think at GTX 1080 ti is the leader, but the prices are also pretty high. At one point people were recommending the 1070 as the best price to performance. However, that really really depends on a lot of stuff. Most of the results you see are based on video games, so it's anyone's guess how much that applies to D|S.
Anyway, I ended up with an MSI X370 Gaming Pro board, which has 16 lanes and can handle 2 GTX 1080's in parallel no problem. And from what I've read it's very popular.
I guess it depends on how much you want to spend. For me, the board plus the CPU plus the case was around $500. So when you add in the GPU and memory and power supply and Windows and so on you're talking more than $1,000
If I had $1600 for a new build today, I would save another $1,000 before starting my build.
Subtropic,
Do you think doubling your outlay would double your performance? Or does another $1,000 give you only a, say, 50% gain? I don't know the answer, I'm just curious.
Thanks.
$1600 today?
There's the important bits weighing in at just over $1500
And anyone who owns an older windows 7 laptop should have a product code sticker on it. That code is not linked to that system in any way. You can install windows on on your new system and use that code, then do the telephone activation.
This ^. More RAM, Bigger HD. Bigger PS. Then you don't have to ask yourself if it's enough.
Indeed.
You could get a midrange 10 series card, presuming that you're sure you want to use IRAY as your primary render engine.
... And presuming your system will be able to support it.
This card could then form part of your new 'uber' system later; perhaps you could use it as the display card.
The reason I suggest this: you're new to 3D; it is a time-consuming hobby and it can be expensive.
I'd learn about what you want but more importantly what you NEED.
OK, if I had to build a Daz box for $1600, it would have these (Links go to Newegg):
X370 chipset A couple of these are less thatn $130 on sale at the moment, sale ends tomorrow of course...
Ryzen 5 1600, 6 core, or higher if budget allows: Ryzen 5 1600 for less than $215 while sale runs (ends in 5 days)
GTX 1080Ti, the cheapest one available ($699 Founders Edition?)
A cheap case with a 700 W or larger PSU Should be able to pick a combo for $95 or less including case fans, more if budget allows
That has us around $1140 or less at the moment
Remainder spent on a 4 TB HDD (around $120), and 32 GB memory ($220+ 2 x 16 GB modules, get the fastest bus speed you can afford)
That has us around $1480, before buying the operating system. I assume that you already have a monitor, mouse, and keyboard laying around the house. Window 10 PRo runs aabout $140, which will squeeze you in at just over $1600.
So, 4 TB HDD, 1080 Ti Founders, X370 Chipset (best chipset for Ryzen), Ryzen 5 1600 (6 core/12 thread), a 700W+ PSU, and 32 GB memory with Win 10 Pro. this puts things around $1620 plus tax and shipping.at Newegg, this will vary a bit depending on your choice of computer case.... dropping to Win 10 Home will save you about $40.
If you can bump your budget another $100 or so, you can make some very nice choices in the memory and computer case department. Ryzen's performance is tied to bus speed, and the memory runs synchronously with the system, so in this case, the higher the memory speed the better. CL timings are a bit less important than the memory speed in this case. Get at least DDR4 3200 if you can manage it, and of course check the reviews and other info for Ryzen compatability.
...I'm in the save the extra 1,000$ camp. For one, Ryzen and Kaby Lake do not suoort W7 (or 8.1) so you would need to budget another 200$ for W10 Pro which gives you more control over your system than Home Edition.
That said, for myself I am looking at going the server gear route starting with a single Haswell 8 core Xeon, dual socket MB, 64 GB of memory, a 1 TB "library" SSD, 500 GB "boot" SSD, 2 GB "storage" HDD 1,000W PSU, and single 1080 Ti running W7 Pro. The system is definitely designed with expansion in mind.
[edited to fix typos as I originally entered this on my phone]
need 4500 for i7 10 core
Will a dual cpu motherboard run with one processor?
Thank you to everyone for the feedback and suggestions.
A couple of afterthoughts on this build suggestion.
Note that 2 of the 4 memory slots are left empty, so you can add another 32 GB later as budget allows, should you feel the need This GSkill 3200 kit should work fine on a Ryzen board according to here (see towards bottom of first post), and is on sale for $235 at the moment...
The Ryzen 6 core/12 thread offers tremendous value/bang for buck, and if you are doing Iray renders, this will be more than sufficient for your purposes. If you are doing CPU based rendering, this will still do you quite nicely. Of course, you can always upgrade to an 8 core Ryzen later, but for a 'value 1080Ti box', I doubt that you'll feel the need.
You can always add SSDs and faster/more HDDs later as your budget allows. Or maybe even install that striped raid config when you hit the jackpot...
The could leave the door wide open for dual 1080Ti's later, if you feel the need to reduce your render times later, depending on which mobo you pick. You'll need to drop to dual x8, but current benchmarks are only showing a slight bump for x16 over x8, so and 'performance' drop you see by going dual x8 will be negligable, with your render times dropping by nearly half.
This Asrock motherboard is a bit more pricey ($200, but there is a $10 rebate which will drop this to around $190) but has a nice mix of features, and multiple reviewers have noted DDR4 3200 working out of the box. TweakTown apparentty really likes this board, and it has a very nice review rating. It also has 2 m2 slots, just the thing for that m2 striped raid array upgrade later. You can use the 4 TB HDD to do backups of the striped raid array every so often as well... I'm not talking Raid 10 here, just doing periodic backups.
You could save a few bucks (maybe as much as $50 or more) by dropping to a B350 chipset, but then you'll lose the multi gpu option later (at least according to the comparison charts). Again, this is a build with an eye on upgradability later.
Ideally, I think you'd be looking at a $1700 build with the Asrock board, but I'd be very happy with the upgradabliltiy options using that board.
I spend a lot more on a machine so I'll spare any details but I will say -go Nvidia. To hell with AMD. Flame on but I won't ever use AMD again. And Nvidia, using Iray, is just a breeze.
@RA
I'm not seeing where this question was answered, sorry if I missed it.
Basically, the CPU determines how many PCI-E lanes are available to the GPUs or other devices. I believe the Ryzen processors mentioned here have 24 total lanes. Intel's Skylake and Kaby Lake lines of CPUs have 16 lanes, The processors for Intels X99 and X299 chipsets have either 28 lanes or 40 lanes, depending on price point. You'd be hard pressed to fit one of those into your budget.
The real point though is that you will not notice a difference between X8 and X16 speeds. Either of the Ryzen builds presented here are excellent choices.
For what it's worth though, you might consider holding off for a while. SSDs and RAM prices are extremely high right now. GPU prices are also inflated due to a recent surge in crypto currency mining popularity, but the 1080 ti hasn't really be affected by that.
A quick note: most higher end Ryzen boards (x370) should add an additional 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes, for a total of 28 usable PCIe lanes. 4 of Ryzen's 24 native 3.0 lanes are apparently set aside for chipset communtication, so this leaves 28. (twenty 3.0 plus eight 2.0)
https://www.pcper.com/news/Motherboards/AMD-Supports-CrossFire-B350-and-X370-Chipsets-However-SLI-Limited-X370
Of course, how all of these lanes are implemented will vary from motherboard to motherboard...
Lol... I'd wait until I had about twice that and build the PC I REALLY want. (hee-hee!) But seriously, there is a lot of good advice above.
...yes.
It can depend on the bios.
Thanks again for responses
Additional Question: is the Ryze bios problems sorted out? I heard memory about 3000 is a problem, so I was looking at 2x16 2800 or 3000.
If you are serious about rendering in iRay, then you need to load up on GPU's. the best way to do this is with a dual CPU motherboard. A dual xeon MB will give you twice the lanes. Don't worry about getting the latest and greatest cpu. You can get a version 3 chip or even version 2 (current version is 4). As mentioned already, CPU power is not important to iRay. the most important thing is those PCIe lanes. The second thing you need to worry about is power supply. Multiple GPU's and cooling need power. 1200watts can power 3 GPU's safely. 1500 will power 4 (along with 2 xeons). Can you get this all for $1600? nope, but you can build in stages. Setting a good foundation for the future will prevent you from having to start again when you run into a wall because you didn't plan right. You can find a bare bones workstation (it will have the motherboard, case, and power supply) Get one cpu and gpu to start. Use your old PC as a donor and you're ready to go.
I built my last rendering workstation from a used barebones Dell t7910. Then I got 2 used Xeon E5-2683v3 for a bargain. The unit came with a 1300w PSU. I dropped a single 1080ti in I didn't pay much more than $1600 and I am ready for the future. I can add 2 or 3 more ti's in the future or even more advanced GPU's as they become available. My 28 cores won't be outdated in the foreseeable future. But foundation for growth starts with motherboard and Power supply.
So, this is the build I am considering. Overbudget by $300. Thanks again for responses; I learned a lot completing this list.
PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6m49zM
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6m49zM/by_merchant/
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($294.49 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-AX370-Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($101.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2800 Memory ($283.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Mushkin - Chronos 480GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($141.46 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital - RE4 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Founders Edition Video Card ($704.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake - Commander G42 ATX Mid Tower Case ($60.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Thermaltake - 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($83.90 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($89.89 @ OutletPC)
Sound Card: Syba - SD-PEX63034 24-bit 48 KHz Sound Card ($29.99 @ Amazon)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link - TL-WN781ND PCI-Express x1 802.11b/g/n Wi-Fi Adapter ($12.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1884.44
Just one initial comment...the Ryzen 7 1700 already comes with a cooler that's rated much higher cooling than the TDP (rated power) of the CPU. I think the cooler is like 125 watts and the CPU is only 65 watts. And the thermal paste is already applied to the cooler
And IMO it's good you're getting Windows 10 Home, not Pro like some here have recommended. AFAIK, Pro only gives you Bitlocker and Remote Access, for $100 extra.
Oh, and if you change your mind and decide on a 1700x CPU, it doesn't come with a cooler. I think.
Just make sure before you buy. That's one reason I chose the 1700....
And one more comment...
I've been considering adding an SSD, but after a recent post here I'm not so sure. Someone was talking about shaving only a minute or two off a scene that took 5 or 6 minutes to load from the SSD onto the GPU. Not nearly as much as I had hoped.
If you're considering adding an SSD just for better iRay performance, then the smartest thing is to stick with your magnetic disk drive. iRay spends very little time with your hard drive. An SSD would not be a useful performance Daz performance upgrade. If however you wanted to boost your whole system, from booting up windows to accessing video files to playing games, an SSD drive is one of the most significant upgrades you can get, if you're coming from a spinning disk.
...Pro also gives you the ability to defer updates for an extended period of time (so like maybe they will be properly debugged) and gives more control over configuring your system than Home Edition does. Home Edition is made for those who know nothing about maintaining their systems.
Oh and stay away from W10-S as it is locked down to only accepting applications directly from the MS app store.
...as long as you have sufficient VRAM and system memory.
If a scene is too big for GPU memory it will dump to the CPU/System memory where already a major chunk is taken just having the scene file and Daz programme (along with anything else) open. If the process then exceeeds remaining available system memory, it will dump to much slower swap mode. This happens on my system with some frequency as I tend to create fairly large busy scenes and only have 10.7 GB (out of 12 after Windows and system utilities) of total availble memory (I have an old 1 GB GPU so I am stuck with CPU rendering). it is not unusual for some of my scenes to top out at 7 or more GB in system memory.
I found this thread on memory illuminating; did not know about rank
http://www.overclock.net/t/1627555/ryzen-memory-ic-collection-thread