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V8 new skin is a BIG step in the right direction, but...

JeffGJeffG Posts: 118
edited June 2017 in The Commons

V8 new skin is a BIG step in the right direction, fantastic in fact, but the SSS it too "hot" in my opinion.

Specifically in the nostril and nose tip area. And I've seein this overblown SSS on a lot on new V8 renders.

I'm not saying we should start calling V8 "Hot Nostrils" or anything...

But I think if the SSS were toned down a bit it would better match reality...

 

Opinions?

 

"Hey! I could've had a V8!"

Post edited by JeffG on

Comments

  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,031
    edited June 2017

    The V8 is rendered in outdoor, sunny lighting, where your shutterstock model is in a studio. That can make a *huge* difference. This would be a better comparative for that photo:

    Post edited by ChangelingChick on
  • JeffGJeffG Posts: 118

    This is a studio type shot with the same "hot nose" problem.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    It may have happened because the person who did the material wanted to get translucent ears. And historically, DAZ figures have ears that are several times too thick. If you measure the model with something like Measure Metrics, the ears are several millimeters thick. In real life, human ear is about 1.5 mm thick. Check this medical publication out if you don't believe me: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14338540_Ultrasound_measurement_of_skin_and_cartilage_thickness_in_healthy_and_reconstructed_ears_with_a_20-MHz_ultrasound_device

    So when you set up your material to have translucent ears without relying on strength maps, the nose will often get "too hot".

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890

    Huh, I didn't realize that was the issue with ears. That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

    i can also imagine why, because trying to get ears to not evert when morphed is... hard

  • AdemnusAdemnus Posts: 744
    timmins.william said:

    Huh, I didn't realize that was the issue with ears. That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

    i can also imagine why, because trying to get ears to not evert when morphed is... hard

    yeah and I imagine they're so thick because they need to be able to morph into dozens of alien / elf ears etc. Just a guess tho.

  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 1,757
    edited May 2022

    Redacted

    Post edited by cridgit on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890

    It occurs to me that it'd be nice to have an ear thickness morph... and that I can do that myself without too much trouble.

  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,031
    JeffG said:

    This is a studio type shot with the same "hot nose" problem.

    That is the vendor's skin/shader, not V8's, and she has a backlight on her which will light up nostrils on a real person as well. Here's a closer lighting comparison to the image you posted:

      

    (more lighting examples by this photographer: http://level-2-alex-rankin.blogspot.com/)

    The "thickness" in the ears isn't a physical thickness. It's shader based. They could be a millimeter thick and still be completely opaque based on the shader. You also need a light set up that will show the translucency. One bright light from the front won't do it. 

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    inner nostril needs its own shader domain to have different glow settings

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,890

    Changeling: sure, but when you are taking a physically based approach to shaders, the way the shader interacts with things like thickness matters. In this case it's particularly acute since the simulation already fails to account for things like finger bones.

  • JeffGJeffG Posts: 118
    timmins.william said:

    Changeling: sure, but when you are taking a physically based approach to shaders, the way the shader interacts with things like thickness matters. In this case it's particularly acute since the simulation already fails to account for things like finger bones.

    Very interesting point.

    I've thought that a low polygon set of bone fingers and a nose bone (Cartilage) that were parented to the figure might solve those problems (especially on the bridge of the nose).

     

     

  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 1,757
    edited May 2022

    Redacted

    Post edited by cridgit on
  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,031
    timmins.william said:

    Changeling: sure, but when you are taking a physically based approach to shaders, the way the shader interacts with things like thickness matters. In this case it's particularly acute since the simulation already fails to account for things like finger bones.

    Yes, and there's a setting in the shader to tell it how to do that.

     

     

    JeffG said:

    I've thought that a low polygon set of bone fingers and a nose bone (Cartilage) that were parented to the figure might solve those problems (especially on the bridge of the nose).

    The simple solution (and resource light one) is to make a map to put in the weight channel. That's why the weight channels take maps. 

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    ChangelingChick said:
    timmins.william said:

    Changeling: sure, but when you are taking a physically based approach to shaders, the way the shader interacts with things like thickness matters. In this case it's particularly acute since the simulation already fails to account for things like finger bones.

    Yes, and there's a setting in the shader to tell it how to do that.

    JeffG said:

    I've thought that a low polygon set of bone fingers and a nose bone (Cartilage) that were parented to the figure might solve those problems (especially on the bridge of the nose).

    The simple solution (and resource light one) is to make a map to put in the weight channel. That's why the weight channels take maps. 

    Just make it account for the ears, not the nose, and the nose will take care of itself =)

     

    ChangelingChick said:
    That is the vendor's skin/shader, not V8's, and she has a backlight on her which will light up nostrils on a real person as well. Here's a closer lighting comparison to the image you posted:

      

    (more lighting examples by this photographer: http://level-2-alex-rankin.blogspot.com/)

    A good example, and yet you can see that the kid, being a kid, has noticeably more translucent skin than a very much grown-up and made-up Vicky. She shouldn't really light up like that, especially in the light that's on her in the promo render - judging by the highlights, it's not as strong as the one in the photo.

    Either way, setting up SSS in Iray is no fun at all.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    timmins.william said:

    It occurs to me that it'd be nice to have an ear thickness morph... and that I can do that myself without too much trouble.

    Let us know if you succeed =) I keep meaning to start making some for my beloved ancient figures, but the amount of eyestrain it will require makes me put the project off again and again.

    The key is to get the back of the ear look more like a real ear and not just a smooth lump.

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