Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
I do agree with you a ton regarding the "it needs to be acquired once again", but I'd like to ask how you'd think this would work out in the middle or even long term? DAZ needs money to continue their venture as a company. If they don't make money, they'll shut down - as sad as this whole deal is, that's a bitter truth. You have several options to translate to the newest genesis stuff. Buy it or wait for the content coders to provide transition options. It's not perfect by any means, but what I saw in the past is that there's a lot of consideration how that can work from provider perspective.
Personally, I'm not open to once again pay 100$ for some pro set - at least not yet. I'm just waiting for the summer sale, and if DAZ does that right, I'll be showering them in my money anyways.
I just hope daz gave PA's the final version to work with instead of some beta shape that differs from the release version. Last time round was hell, just hell. Between the mob of people that wanted content before PAs had figured out how to make stuff fit the figures, and the flood of junk that never fit anyone without JCMs for that figure.
I have nothing against G8F, however, I will beg PAs to make sure you are working with the release version of G8F instead of a beta shape, and you make sure the stuff fits G8F before it leaves the modeling program.
Auto follow does not work with stuff force-fitted to a figure after the fact.
The reason I'm upset is because PAs have a strong incentive to use the latest generation. They also have a strong incentive to make sexy chicks and related stuff.
I like weird stuff. I love four arms for Genesis.
This scheme of release means there's never going to be a period where there is a big amount of the conventional stuff and people feel more willing to experiment and distinguish themselves with stuff further out.
And that stinks, for me.
What really amazes me is people complaining about "complainers." It truly boggles my mind.
Have there been complaints during these transitions? Yes there have, but this time around, it is a lot more calm.
I even started a thread about V8 and the question of whether it is too soon. We haven't had any flames or people threatening to boycott or inciting a riot.
I guess what I'm saying is if you like the way things are, beautiful. If you don't like it, say something.
I even advocate ANYONE who even THINK they might want V8 someday, go ahead and buy it NOW.
IF I can raise the money I will certainly get V8 Pro Bundle!
Best of Luck!
Sorry if my comment read as a complaint. I feel I was making an observation instead of a complaint.
The G3 launch was quieter. A lot of people embraced it better.
Not all of the threads have been quiet.
Hi Mattymanx
Well, I know you were around for the really bad times when posts were disappeared, threads padlocked right and left. It was ugly, even by my standards.
Some of these threads are not quiet, but they are not like they used to be.
I like the G8. I dont use DS much (Poser User Here) I am just more used to using Poser.."old dog new tricks" kinda thing..BUT..I do use DS occasionally when I see something I want but cannot use in Poser. Basically I just use whatever software I need to get the job done. I think G8 has alot of potential! I tried her out on a trial run and this render shows her wearing Genesis 1 G1CsJPants, G3Females Littles Ones hair and sandles, G8 top, and the skin is V7.
I tried using The Girl 7 skin and no luck...the skin is WAY off. In the long run tho, I think there will be a ton of old stuff that can be used with her....and Him when he come out! :)
This. It's not about whether or not G8 and V8 are good.....they are. They are an improvement, but not a huge one.
But this will cause developement of stuff for G3M/F to quickly dry up, and the PAs will not be looking at trying new stuff, but simply re-doing the same stuff (that is consistently a seller) for the new shiny. We really need more risk-taking PAs....I know the reasons we don't have them, but its not hard to ASK your customer base about what they are looking for. I think George demonstrated clearly there is a significant need for more than just the 'typical' stuff, and if you do it right, it WILL sell.
While in theory I agree with Will-- what comes out now for Victoria 4.2 is AMAZING and I'd love to see G3 get that chance to mature-- but practically speaking I'm all but done buying G3 figures. More clothes? Yes. Figures? Hard to justify on a limited budget, with Skin Builder and plenty of morph packs and morph movers. I'm fundamentally in this to produce my own content (stories). This is why I _have_ to stick with G3 for now, while being fully aware I'm not going to be buying new figures.
I do really like G8 though. (I keep hoping Victoria 8 will magically appear in my product library too) But purely for fun. Not only can I not afford G8-based new stuff, _it_ can't support me.
And yeah, I guess I will be part of the conversation no matter what. :-)
I'd be upset if A) there wasn't backwards compatibility for clothing down to G3F and G2F (and Genesis), and B) G3F skins didn't work on G8F.
But... they do. Which frankly stuns me. Every time we've had a new generation that's been the stumbling block for me. And yes, they're always eventually converted (I remember well the people telling me that it was never going to be possible to convert G2F skins to G3F, and of course there's several ways to do that now). To actually load G8F and then load my Vanda G3F skin, then do cosmetics and the like... well, that was just pleasantly surprising.
Beyond that... it's not going to heavily change my workflow for quite a while. I have a huge investment in previous generations, and since shaping isn't the same one-step process textures are, and I can backport clothes (albeit sometimes with tweaks -- and bless Sickleyield for telling us the hows and whys on that) it's not a big deal to me. Somewhere around Christmas I'll probably start moving more towards G8F.
I will say I've played a bit with the Powerpose Expressions, and that's really spiffy. If there's something that'll get me experimenting with a shaping transfer, it's the potential for that kind of subtle expression customization. But even that will need to wait for time and money, and both are in short supply.
In short, I'm kind of "whatevs" about this one. I'm pleasantly surprised with its compatibilities, and I can see advantages to using it, but it's not going to come close to replacing G3F for me, at least right now.
...
...same here.
My best purchases have been tools like SBP3, LAMH/Garibaldi Express, as well as various morph/shaping resources, and GenX. These (along with that "well worn" tool known as DFormers) makes it possible to build unique custom characters. I look at specific character content as being great for those who do not want to spend (nor have) the time on creating their own. Unless a figure or character has something unique that I feel will enhance the "Genesis genepool", I won't buy it. Back when I started in this I spent months if not years working at moulding V4 into a viable teen, preteen, and even child character (as there were none for Gen4 until almost the very end when K4 was released) so I this route has pretty much become natural to me. William takes it several steps beyond what I do, turning out some incredible, fantastic, and sometimes just "odd" creatures.
If I could afford it I would have ZBrush too for modelling and custom sculpting (hmm, 5 Pro bundles at list cost would pretty much pay for it).
If I decide to even install 4.9.4, I may play a bit with G8 but as I mentioned elsewhere, I feel I have enough to keep me busy for a while. Furthermore upgrading my system with more memory and a 1080 Ti is a higher priroity right now.
The thing is, there are other things they could do to make money that would improve the overall product more. A decent dynamic cloth solution alone would open a huge market for vendors, and DS hair is embarassingly ancient tech. Give us an imporoved solution for those and that opens up the floodgates for a lot of new product that people would jump at. Realusion is already doing it with Genesis 1-3 figures, so it's clearly not impossible.
So long as Iray isn't switched out for yet another rendering engine, G3 will certainly not be obsolete (Iray was what made G2 partially obsolete, since 3Delight stuff doesn't look right when posed next to Iray stuff; only some skins were retrofitted for it). The trouble is, however, that the vast majority of new figure-related products will now just be created for G8. Especially for shaping morphs... Where the heck did the alien-themed Creature Creator sets disappear to?! I was really looking forward to implementing those!
McGyver got it right, and i agree with him. The point is not the good improvements a new version will offer, the problem is the backward compatibility and how the market will react (i am a web developer and i know this behaviour in CMS, apps etc...). From G1 to G2, to G3, we all know what happened to the previous versions. No developer invests time making products for G1 or G2 today because this is pointless, last year their business was in G3. Today they all recognize they must run on the G8, and rushing, trashing or switching what they were doing for G3. Also, i read a post of someone a while ago, she was developing things for females characters because male characters are not selling well, so in her post she said that the male version of her product would never be released. This rule apply even in DAZ originals, don't you notice they release the Female, and Victoria PRO Bundle before the male character? In my opinion this sucks, everything is driven by the market.
These problems are important for a user who is doing a long lasting project (a graphic novel maybe?), so the "porno toons" and the huge amount of girls out there, is not what he is going after. Also the new versions are a pain, because they force everybody to start rethink a whole lot of things. All main characters are freezed in their "business" time.
Now i am asking: is there a way to make lossless improvements? Can we encourage the cross gender development (something like the G1 version was doing)? How can we protect creativity from the business perspective, so the market will not deteriminate what stuff is being developed? What is the point of a new version if it is almost the same thing of the previous one, also, it gives more problems than features? Could the new features be implemented as new module instead?
Fully agree with the OP. G3 is far from defunct.
Thank you Matty for your post, I use G2f and love her to bits! I can Use V4, Genesis and G3 stuff on her as well. As soon as I make a clone for G8 I am sure I will be able to use her clothing as well. There is no reason to give up a figure you love for something new and shiny!
The two year product cycle has been in effect for some time now I understand. So the argument against progress is that this is too short? I see an awful lot of content out there for various figures. What I see the least of is, 1:) modest clothes for female figures and, 2:) strange creatures (four armed monsters). But I don't think the reason for the shortage of these items is the short product cycle. The reason is the lack of profit in producing such content. A longer product cycle is not going to change the economics! If PA's don't feel it is profitable to produce a certain genre of content, they won't change their minds because of time. This is the reality of real world capitalism. If I want a tigerstriped iPhone, I will have to paint one myself or commission it because the iPhone only comes in limited colors. There is nothing I can do to change that. The best thing I can do is learn to paint cellphones. A company has to move forward to stay alive. There is no standing still in business. Money talks. Offer a PA enough money to make it worth their while. Form a powerbuy collective. But don't blame a company for wanting to stay viable and competitive in the marketplace. I get it everyone isn't a creative professional. That's why creative people are so valuable. It costs a lot because it's a lot of work. Sometimes we can be spoiled by the cheap availablitly of popular products, but for those who want something unique, they will realize the true value of art.
Profitability is influenced by many factors.
Daz can't control what PAs do directly, and that's fine.
Male content being less profitable than female content isn't something Daz can do much about it.
But capitalism fails on big picture, systemic stuff.
It is clear it is overall better for there to be male content, so we do what we can to encourage it and make it a safer prospect for vendors.
A longer cycle would mean products further from the standard hub would become more profitable, because people would be looking for new and interesting things to spend money on.
Daz' 2 year cycle definitely generates good revenue, but my complaint is that I think it makes a 'lawn of shallow roots.' And that poses certain dangers and problems for those involved. As a customer who has spent a lot of money here, I think feedback about how I like the overall business model is fair, and pointing out what kind of environment I want to continue to buy into. They are, of course, free to decide whatever they want, but every choice has consequences.
I mean, look at the threads on converting older content. I don't recall that happening with Genesis 2 or 3. This is a different reaction based on a frustration with the 2 year cycle.
Like, personally, I've been enjoying using Genesis 8. But I have to date spent $0 on it, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Instead, I (and others) have reached a tipping point where it's just easier and more cost-effective to take the time to adapt content rather than buy yet another set of morphs for yet another figure. (Although I would probably buy something like GenX2 for G8 if it ever came out, simply because it's way easier/faster)
That represents potential lost revenue, but only time will tell if the customer base that feels likewise adds up to anything.
If you still feel like this view doesn't have merit, consider the profitability argument taken to its extreme. Imagine if the market consisted _solely_ of young white women with giant hooters and skimpware, maybe a few evening dresses and (gasp!) pumps.
Would that make you happy? Maybe it would. Do you think that would make for a profitable and large customer base? Maybe it would.
If you don't think that would be a good idea, then you accept the argument, really, it's just a matter of where you draw the line.
I already have my clothing base developers mesh for G8
I certainly wont be buying any clothing
I think you misunderstand my whole argument. My happiness or unhappiness with the situation is irrevelevent. So is your's. The free market plays no favorites. It goes where the money flows. This is the way business works in America and we have no choice but to accept the order of things. Personally, I wish you could get your four armed man but my argument isn't about what we want, it's about economic viability. If there is no feasible profit in a venture, it probably won't be pursued. But if there is enough demand, someone will provide it. This rule is the reason we have a Daz Studio to play with today. And it is probably the reason you don't have a four armed monster in your runtime. My argument is that the only way to change the situation is to find a way to tip the economic scales in your favor. As much as I can relate with your frustration, I also know that bellyaching is just bellyaching and will not (usually) result in anything positive.
But in answer to your question: If the market consisted soley of white women wearing pumps, I would learn to love pump wearing white women (actually I do) or I would learn to make my own women. Minorities have long past learned to be adaptable that way
.
This is getting into politics so I'll stop with 'that's a very simplistic model and the notion that nothing can be done about it isn't supported by history'
LOL, one thing I have learned in life is never, if I can help it, allow my fortunes be too dependent on others. Life is a jungle.
Like it or not, this is the reality in which we live.
without getting into the politics or social policies of capitalist economies
my only advice is to take advantage of the "Democratization"
of technology that has sundered the Tyranny of many of the "gatekeepers"
and empower yourself as much as possible.( ie learn new skills and adapt)
I have met laypeople who see my crude little CG/3D VFX
works and lament the fact that they never got their Degree in the visual arts,
Like I "did"
when I explain that I have no college degree they actually become angry
at me and accuse me of being a liar!! ( WHAaaa.. ??BULL SH*T!!!)
This has happened on more than one occasion
This blatant animosity towards the "AutoDidact"
who dares to not suffer from the same dependencies on institutions to provide
the official knowledge of how to do what are perceived to be complex things.
Profit based 3D content makers like DAZ have become one of those institutions
upon which some people have become somewhat emotionally dependent.
But people need to understand growth comes in the form of aquiring
new customers in new areas of the market not by your existing customers
engaging in hoarding behavior.
That 14 pages in ones product library does not mean as much as one wishes to believe
This notion that Daz is"forcing us" to buy the same things all over again
is false
Daz is trying to get NEW buyers to buy this stuff for the first time.
this is how growth is achieved.
Yeah I griped quite a bit about the New twist bones in G3/G8
buggering up animation but I am not actually upset about it
or feeling "betrayed "
Because I have used the internet to self educate enough to be free of needing Daz
PA's to keep supporting the older figures that work with my animation tools(G1-2).
And lets be honest
NONE of us CG/3D "artists" are creating anything in the real ,world that can be eaten,lived in, or worn on the body for protection
from the elements.
its all just a wee bit of fleeting of visual entertainment anyway.
Last night I was trying to characterize a G3 in Motionbuilder. The night before I was successful with G2. I noticed a strange thing about the G3 bones. There are "unnatural" joints in the thighs and arms. Is this related to what you're referring to? I didn't know where to assign these extra bones since there is no real world correspondence. Does this mean It will be difficult to mocap a G3 figure?
There are extra twist bones in the limbs of the G3/G8 Figures
.
that daz put there because "other programs do it this way"
I am not a motionbuilder user but I use Iclone Pro.
There are tutorials on Characterizing G3 in MOBU so it can be done
But hold no delusions about exporting G3/G8 BVH files from MOBU
back to studio.......they will not work in studio
Haven't ya heard? Resistance to change is like the Foruth Absolute Certainty, behind Death, Taxes and DAZ Sales. Personally I ignore these people who sale you must buy V8.
Genesis 8 just makes me love Genesis "everybody else" more
This is very disappointing. As beautiful as the Genesis models are, Daz Studio software is turning out to be a dog for animators. While I am not yet ready to give up on Genesis, it seems my workflow will be more complicated in order to make up for the software's weaknesses.