Genesis 8 does NOT make Genesis 3 useless
nicstt
Posts: 11,714
... Lots of posts decrying the appearance of Genesis 8, but folks don't seem to realise they can still use everything they have bought, and continue to buy products (at reduced prices) for G3. Nothing insists they musy purchase G8.
The character is Genesis 8, as are the clothes.
The pose is G3, as is the OOT hair; the pose needed slight adjustment which is I suspect due to the default A-pose; I'm glad to see the A pose introduced.
The textures are also G3 from Bonnie which I have heavily customised.
I see opportunites in what Daz has produced.
... And of course, Genesis 8 does not stop what I have purchased being usable, or make it in some way no-longer usable, it actually makes a lot of it useful for Genesis 8 too.
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The combination of Iray and Dimension Z's NGS Annagenessis 2 really made me re-think my position on the various figures, as once you get them all on the same render and shader systems, the difference start to look a lot less significant. Right now I tend to use whichever one seems best for the job, as the Genesis figures actually seem to have the best range of expressions, while G3 had the best posing and mature/atheletic characters (George! Ivan! Rune! Dante!) while the G2s make for the best variety in younger males and fantasy types. I'm sure I'll find the niches for the G8s as well, but it'll take three or four releases before we really get an idea of what kind of products DAZ is going to lead with.
Yeh folks to often think either/or: either old and obsolete, or the latest release.
It isn't that choice, it is only, finding what best suits the project you have.
I have G3F set up pretty well. I still buy and use V4 stuff. At first I did feel like Daz was setting me up to rebuy everything yet again. But I want the community to grow and thrive and its a great time to be a new user, what with getting all the Genesis Vickies for free with Vicki 8. I however PAID for all those already and its not motivation for me to buy now. I know they want to do the 2-year thing. I'm not doing it anymore myself however. I love that with G3F I can use the V4 stuff, the Genesis stuff, etc. I bought that ability. There is plenty in my wishlist already. Since it is only going to be two years until V9, I have decided to wait until then to even look at V8's completed catalog. Yes, I am choosing to be behind the times! I'm old myself, its better that way for my budget.
Agree with this sentiment totally! Sure, new and shiny is fun... but past figures are still just as much fun too and theres still a ton of to buy for them. Ive been working on promos for my next coming up, and also noticed... you can only get certain things with certain generations (such as the Reptilian and Minotaur) So I think older figures still have their place. I still buy for older things.
Yes, at first I turned up my nose at G8. I felt very bitter about this sudden release but it doesn't stop me from using my other figures. I just have another option to play with! ;) I use G1,G2, and G3 in the same render scenes and with few exceptions they all look fine together. Heck, I still purchase and use all my Generation 4 stuff if I can get it to work on any of the Genesis figures. I don't strive for the ultra realism so perhaps that helps in my preferences. I purchased the Genesis 8 Morphs, but passed on V8. Not that I don't want her, but this release just didn't sinc with my budgeted wallet. I plan on using G8 with all the previous Genesis figures and will still purchase new and old things as I want/have money for them.
I agree with the OP. In the real world, I could buy myself some new leopard-print boots that have buckles on which my current perfectly serviceable pair don't, and which won't go with my tartan skirt any more than the others do. There would still be times when the current buckle-less pair would be a better choice, or at least as good, and nobody's forcing me to buy the optional ultra-wide laces that are available for the new ones. Alternatively, rather than just leaving the new ones on the shelf if I'm not buying, I could rant about how the money-grabbing manufacturers have produced another pair of leopard print boots when there was nothing wrong with the old ones. compelling me to buy optional extras as well. I could then announce with disgust that I'm through with wearing leopard-print boots altogether because of this - the ones that were good enough for me yesterday before the new ones showed up today suddenly have no appeal.
It's like The Twilight Zone on here sometimes, but do not adjust your set - it will probably return to what passes for normal in these parts soon. For another two years or so, anyway :)
Amen! Been saying that all day. Nothing is being taken away, so much is being added. So many opportunities. In the past week, I've bought incredible items for nearly every generation. And you know what? I use all the generations that are available. More options, more variety, is a good thing. And it doesn't cost a thing to get the new DAZ and Gen 8 base. Just a little time and patience.
What makes G3 obsolete is the fact that, despite claims of backward compatibility, G8 clothes will not - as I understand it - work with G3 or earlier. Also, G3 clothes will only work to a limited extent on G8 ... I'm seeing confusing claims about whether clothing morphs work when auto-fitted to G8. So, to take advantage of all the new PA products, realisticallly speaking, you need G8. It was the same with G3 despite Wear Them All and clones being available (ok - at a cost). I have all those clones and Wear Them All but I rarely use my substantial G2 wardrobe on G3 ... just not worth the hassle.
I'm not complaining that people want to embrace G8/V8 right now - it is our choice. I understand the DAZ 2 year sales cycle too. I just can't see a good reason to jump in right now so I'll do what I usually do and wait for the G8 items to start appearing in the Mad sales. Additionally, I don't see the benefit of buying V8 at all. G8 with morphs and G3 skins seems like a decent option although I have not downloaded her yet so can't comment with any certainty. I guess you'd be paying for the HD which is probably more necessary than ever considering the reduced polygon count.
Okay, over on DeviantArt, SickleYield just posted a tutorial on fitting G3 to G8 and Vise Versa
There is a link to a youtube tutorial as well.
http://www.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Convert-Clothing-G3-to-G8-G8-to-G3-686682065
Thanks. That was quick and seems very encouraging. Now if someone can describe how to transfer some G3 HD details to the G8 figure, I might change my mind about being an early adopter. :)
I personally didn't like Vicki 7's face, or her glassy eyes and collagen lips. I like to make athletic, superhero characters, and the large hips and behinds was a real pain to start with. That's why I loved Vicki 5 Supermodel so much, and Vicki 8 is much like her. I happen to LIKE the fact that she has skinny legs and no butt - I can add that easily, but it's hard to get rid of it when I don't want it.
So her face is more plain, I don't care. There will be lots of pretty characters to choose from, and I'm a dial spinner and rarely use characters out of the box anyway.
The only thing I find disappointing is that the left/right face morphs appear to have been removed. No real face is symmetrical, and I really liked adding that realism. Hopefully some PA morph packages will include these.
Yeah, Genesis 2 is still my fave. Those set of morphs across the board all hit my personal taste
Well we cannot completely disregard the
Marketing Hype driven ,psychological Oooohh..me too!!!, Mutal validation
frenzy that results from the new thing with the higher version number.
The Daz business model is underpinned by the emotional
impulse buyer.
This is not a criticism.... just an economic reality.
People will buy this new figure based on that emotional impulse
not based on any tangbible or impending 3D/CG project based requirements for
a different heel bone set up.
This figure will be easily ignored By serious character animators because,
like its predecessor, it not only offers ZERO incentives to
upgrade but actually has the exact same
Motion creation incompatibilities as G3.
Hey Wolf359
I like your new Avatar. A mean looking Galactus.
Well, if people are even thinking about getting Vicky 8, they should go ahead and do it while V5, V6, & V7 can be had for the same price. I'm even trying to rally my pennies.
I think there is a script to split those now dracorn...I'm rendering atm so I can't check, but I could swear I saw someone post a screenie and saw the thumb for the script.
Laurie
Edit: sorry to get your hopes up...I don't think that's what it's for :(
It took ages for asymetrical face morphs to appear; I made my own, never bought any.
V7 was my least favourite character, although the textures were good; V8 looks much better, and seems to have some 'character'.
No doubt as they appear, I like some, and not others.
I purposely used the word useless in the title, not obsolete.
It has been the case previously that a new release slowly forces the previous 'must-have' figure into some form of obsolescence.
... As folks might understand it, but that is very much a personal choice.
G2 (for me) became obsolete the moment G3 appeared, in the main because I liked the new bending dynamics - they seemed much better to me. However, since then, I have moved G2 textures to G3, so they are still useful; the same is true for clothing and to a very limited extent, hair.
So it was very much a personal choice, which made me think about this new release. Will it slowly replace G3? I've no idea, it will depend on what is released and what new it makes available. For me, what we needed most is better hair system and a cloth dynamics system. I don't consider those to be dependent on the figure generation though, but again, maybe something new will appear there too.
I haven't yet, but probably will in the next day or two, buy V8; this is only because I can use my textures, and other items on them. So, from my perspective, it was a good business decision to not to try and force me to re-buy everything again. I wouldn't have; my considerable store credit would have gone to discounted G3 items - and probably some still will. (I've spent some time today, testing how well skin textures transfer - very well - how well clothes transfer - also seem to be very well, which is why I am considering purchasing V8.)
I admit my biggest temptation (other than expressive fun) is the _social_ aspect. I like feeling like a part of what's happening at Daz. By deciding to hold off on any G8 purchases until November, I'm (theoretically) bowing myself out of any new figure-based purchases and limiting myself to props and environments. (I know there will be plenty of 'legacy' releases for a few months, though.... and there's still lots of G3 clothes I want but don't have... blah blah blah.) But the social part of me yearns to be in on the conversation,
I agree completely. I for one am thrilled G8 is here.
I think that is perception on your part. :) You can be part of that conversation, in a different way than if you bought 'into' it.
You can use G8, it is there for free, you can transfer textures, and poses work pretty good. There are limited morphs, but buying into all that are available only makes them slightly less limited as of now, and it's six to 12 months before they get sufficient product add-ons (from past experience) to become as versatile.
... And waiting to purchase is never a bad thing... there is always another sale.
If I decide not to buy-in, like you, I will still get the morphs; it will be interesting to have the option to mess about with the morphs, and I'll make some of my own.
And you can be. It was at least 15-18 months before I bought into G3, but there was still no shutting me up in the meantime :)
You can use G3 textures on the free base version of G8, and G3 poses transfer easily enough with a bit of adjustment. Poses and expressions can be created for the figure using the updated PowerPose in Daz Studio too. Many Genesis, G2 and G3 clothes and hair work smoothly via autofit and, as far as I can tell, pretty much all of them do using the simple method outlined in SickleYield's tutorial (I'll be trying that one later). Then there's all the shaders that can be used on the clothing too. That ought to give you plenty to talk about, and all for nothing more than you've already spent :)
While I'm grumpy about this for many reasons, I'll point out that having Skin Builder 3 for Genesis 3 essentially gives you skins galore with no need for waiting.
At this point Genesis 3 is the most important figure around. We have so much possibilities for morphing, textures and REAL downward compatibility (we can use even V3 outfits!!!!), the compatibility from G8 is at this time very limited, autofit doesn´t work well for some outfits so maybe DAZ will work on this in future. But at this time G3 is the most compatible figure today!
Yeah, the modular nature of the figures and the extreme capabilities of the morph and texture packs that folks like Zev0 put out, and the death of support for non-base UV sets by all the PAs really makes the dedicated base figure a lot less necessary. DAZ's wacko policies kind of force you to buy at least one pro bundle if you want to get their Anatomical Elements, but I see that as of last night there was already one competing new G8/V8 gen set over at Renderotica, so even that isn't really necessary anymore.
I've found every generation brings something to the table that the others don't. And that's awesome.
I find it interesting how this same issue comes up with EVERY new generation that comes out. I have seen V4 to V8 come out and its the same story. People act like the sky is falling and that all of a sudden, *POOF* ... your past content will no longer work. Or at least that is how it reads. When V4 came out, I stayed with Aiko3. V4 never grew on me even though I did have a small amount of stuff for it. Same with V5 and the rest of the Genesis 1 characters. I only dabbled with them for work, making poses. It wasn't until a year after Genesis 2 Female came out that I found myself switching. So for 9 years, I stayed with Aiko3 for all my artwork and I loved using it. My only regret, and this is what lead me to finally switch, is that Aiko3 was riddled with bad bending and horrid teeth. In short, the tech was old and it showed. When I finally got into G2F, I found myself not wanting to go back. To be honest, I did not feel bad about staying with A3 for as long as I did as it saved me a ton of money. At the same time, I did not feel bad about switching to G2F as I now had a figure that could do what I wanted and more. And now of course I am using mainly G3F. Will I switch to G8F? Maybe, only time will tell.
So people, if you really dont want to use the latest and greatest figure, I will give you some advice on that. DONT! Just use what you want.
I only posted this here cause I cannot post it in every G8 related thread.
Maybe for the V9 launch in two years we should just have a bunch of templates made up so that people can just fill in the right number and post the same complaints again.
If we did that, there would be a bunch of people complaining that we are "stifling their free expression" or some such.
Genesis 8 is a welcome addition from my perspective. DAZ always did everything in their power to be backwards compatible (in the realms of Studio) while at the same time pushing the whole "Best human character you can get for a reasonable price" beyond limits. From Genesis 2 to Genesis 3 there was a pretty hard, but necessary, topology revolution. But there also were means to make the transition smooth. Genesis 3 to 8 is a good evolution that makes pretty much everything better, and I'm looking forward what's going to happen with it.
Can ... can I have proper tails that don't grow from the back but instead extrude from the sacral bone instead? That be swell.
It may not make the previous generation useless, but it ensures that significantly less content will be developed for it and that less innovative and interesting material will find its way to market.
Nor will it significantly reduce the price of the previous generation, as that would discourage people from buying Genesis 8 content and allow them to stick with the older stuff longer.
It also ensures that many of the most hoped for items that as yet have not been released or created, will not appear for the previous generation if they appear at all before the next version.
It also starts off a new round of rebuying stuff and waiting for new versions of old favorites.
Has it made the previous generation useless? No, but it has significantly reduced its precieved value and impaired its current actual value.
How has its current value been impaired?
Reduction in near future development will diminish as vendors focus on the new generation.
Reduced growth in relation to little reduction in price for the last generation makes it less desirable overall and that translates to a lesser value for the price.
Unlike other markets where things can be rendered less desirable by the introduction of a new version or model, customers in this field are not allowed to sell off their older merchandise, for obvious reasons, so investment in content that will have a limited development cycle can and does lead to resentment if that development cycle is shorter then one may hope and if the investment is significant.
New IS often better, but both sides of story should be considered.