What to choose for Iray renders? Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050Ti/1060 or 1070

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  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    edited June 2017
    kyoto kid said:
    Nyghtfall said:

    Sorry for the confusion, spd.  I'll try answering your question as best and clearly as I can.

    First, your CPU is clearly outdated, which tells me your motherboard may not even support the kind of GPUs you're considering for Iray, nevermind your PSU.  That means you're looking at possibly upgrading three components instead of two: Your motherboard, PSU, and whichever GPU you decide to get.  Worse, if you have to upgrade your motherboard, you may not find one that will support your existing CPU and your new GPU.

    Second, if your're able to keep your other components, then your CPU will only create a bottleneck if you tell Iray to use it in conjunction with your GPU, and I'm reasonably certain you won't be able to do any multitasking while it's rendering if it uses both.  I'm running a home-built Core i7 with dual 980 Ti's.  If I tell Iray to use my CPU, my PC slows to a crawl until it's done, depending on scene complexity and whether more advanced render options are enabled.  Since Iray relies primarily on CUDA cores for speed, I always leave my CPU un-checked.

    Finally, if your budget is that tight, then I would suggest looking for something even less powerful than what you've expressed an interest in.  My Ti's replaced a 780 that I had when DS 4.8 came out, and it handled Iray just fine.

     

    Ok, after listening to what you've said, I think I should not get any f***ng GPU. Because my B**Ch PC with SH***Y i3 CPU and MoBo won't support it. I will deal with the ever slow CPU renders. I will not use Iray. LIFE S**Ks. 

    Thanks to all who helped me.

     

    ...don't dispair, I have an old P6T mb and a first generation i7. I could still install a GTX series 10 GPU even though my PCIe slots are only 2.0. All it will mean is the scene may load a bit slower, but render performance itself will not suffer. If you still have your original OS install disc make a back up of all the data on your HDD and do a clean re-install of your original OS. Currently not at home and on the Daz mobile app (which has some bad limitations). I'll be back home in a bit and better able to help.

    Thanks! Now I am getting greedy after knowing that my MoBo and PSU can support i7 processor along with 1060 :) I have an option of EMI too with my CC.

    i also learnt that i have to activate windows 10 once again after changing the processor :(

    Post edited by SPadhi89 on
  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817
    edited June 2017

    If you can upgrade your CPU as well, then, yeah, that is a good thing.  However, I see two possible issues with getting a 1060 to work with your hardware:

    * The 1060 needs a PCIe 3.0 slot to take advantage of its bus speed.  According to Gigabyte's spec sheet, your motherboard uses PCIe 2.0, which means it's going to bottleneck the GPU regardless of the CPU.

    * The 1060 also needs a 400W PSU.  It may use less when idle, but once it starts rendering, it's going to draw more power, which may leave as little as 50W for the rest of your components.  If Coolermaster is suggesting 334W max, then it's either giving you misleading information, or you're forgetting to include something on its build app.  If the GPU draws up to 400W while rendering, it will leave as little as 50W for the rest of your components, which means your PC will likely burn up and crash, taking your PSU with it.  You don't want to risk a 450W PSU on a 400W GPU.  That's just asking for trouble.

    If you can't afford to upgrade your CPU, PSU, or mobo, then you're better off looking for a 300W or less CUDA-compatible GPU with a PCIe 2.0 bus and at least 4GB VRAM.  Between the three cards referenced in your thread title, I would say the 1050 Ti is your your safest bet, though your mobo is still going to bottleneck it.

    Post edited by Nyghtfall3D on
  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    Nyghtfall said:

    If you can upgrade your CPU as well, then, yeah, that is a good thing.  However, I see two possible issues with getting a 1060 to work with your hardware:

    * The 1060 needs a PCIe 3.0 slot to take advantage of its bus speed.  According to Gigabyte's spec sheet, your motherboard uses PCIe 2.0, which means it's going to bottleneck the GPU regardless of the CPU.

    * The 1060 also needs a 400W PSU.  It may use less when idle, but once it starts rendering, it's going to draw more power, which may leave as little as 50W for the rest of your components.  If Coolermaster is suggesting 334W max, then it's either giving you misleading information, or you're forgetting to include something on its build app.  If the GPU draws up to 400W while rendering, it will leave as little as 50W for the rest of your components, which means your PC will likely burn up and crash, taking your PSU with it.  You don't want to risk a 450W PSU on a 400W GPU.  That's just asking for trouble.

    If you can't afford to upgrade your CPU, PSU, or mobo, then you're better off looking for a 300W or less CUDA-compatible GPU with a PCIe 2.0 bus and at least 4GB VRAM.  Between the three cards referenced in your thread title, I would say the 1050 Ti would be your best bet, but your mobo is still going to bottleneck it.

    Nvidia recommends System Power of 400 Watts for 1060. This as well:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3129968/psu-gtx-1060.html

    http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3239355/450-watts-gtx-1060.html

    AND this build can run at 450 Watts: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3186443/450-watt-good-1060.html

    I dont have SSD or DVD and even planning to get 4th gen processor. 

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817
    edited June 2017

    If 450W will work, that's great, but your mobo is still going to bottleneck whichever card you get.

    EDIT:  I just noticed kyoto kid's post about the PCIe slot, and stand corrected about the bottleneck.  If it won't effect render speed, and the power requirement won't fry your PC, then I would say you're down to two choices:  The 1050 Ti, or the 1060 (nVidia recommends 500W for the 1070).

    Post edited by Nyghtfall3D on
  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    edited June 2017

    Okay, so shall I go for it then or fall back to 1050Ti?

     

    Post edited by SPadhi89 on
  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817
    edited June 2017

    VRAM and CUDA cores are the two principle elements needed for an Iray-optimized PC.  The 1050 Ti has 4 GB VRAM.  The 1060 has 6 GB.  It also has 512 more CUDA cores than the 1050 Ti.  The 1060's extra 2 GB of VRAM alone will given Iray plenty of headroom for the kinds of small scenes you want to create while giving you extra room to play with when you're feeling particularly inspired, and you'll definitely benefit from 1280 CUDA cores.

    If you can afford the 1060, then go for it.

    Post edited by Nyghtfall3D on
  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    edited June 2017
    Nyghtfall said:

    If you can afford the 1060, then go for it.  The extra 2 GB of VRAM alone will given Iray plenty to work with for the kinds of small scenes you want to create while giving you extra room to play with when your're feeling particularly inspired.

    Just had a chat with NVIDIA rep, they said 450 Watts will be fine.

    When equated monthly installment (EMI) comes into picture, I can afford anything lol!

    But that again will increase the number of products that will pile up next to my bed and remain unused.

    Post edited by SPadhi89 on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,347

    .

    Nyghtfall said:

    First, your CPU is clearly outdated, which tells me your motherboard may not even support the kind of GPUs you're considering for Iray, nevermind your PSU.  That means you're looking at possibly upgrading three components instead of two: Your motherboard, PSU, and whichever GPU you decide to get.  Worse, if you have to upgrade your motherboard, you may not find one that will support your existing CPU and your new GPU.

    I can't say for sure if a 1060 or some other NVidia card will work with his board, but I'm running a 1070 on 7-10 year old hardware (Asrock P5B-DE, Q6600, 8 GB DDR2 RAM) and the card works fine and renders very fast. OS is Windows 10.

     

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817

    Just had a chat with NVIDIA rep, they said 450 Watts will be fine.

    Good deal.  :)

    When equated monthly installment (EMI) comes into picture, I can afford anything lol!

    LOL  There ya go.  ;)

    But that again will increase the number of products that will pile up next to my bed and remain unused.

    I've heard EBay is good for that  ;)

  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170

    HEADING TO THE BAZAAR NOW!

    Will let you know once I get the things set up and any images rendered.

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817

    :: thumbs up ::  Enjoy!

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,347
    edited June 2017
    Nyghtfall said:

    * The 1060 needs a PCIe 3.0 slot to take advantage of its bus speed.  According to Gigabyte's spec sheet, your motherboard uses PCIe 2.0, which means it's going to bottleneck the GPU regardless of the CPU.

    Shouldn't matter much as far as I've been told, and that's also my experience - my MB only supports PCIe 1.1 (Intel P965 chipset) and like I said in another post the card renders very fast anyway (SY's test scene completes in about 4 minutes with the 1070, with CPU only it takes over 2 hours).

     

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817
    Taoz said:

    Shouldn't matter much as far as I've been told, and that's also my experience...

    Yup, I saw kyoto's post about that, too.  Good to know.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,409

    ...the recommended PSU output is based on all system components, not just the GPU card. The 6 GB version of 1060 draws only a maximum of 120 W at peak output. 

    Even though an MB may only have PCIe 2.0. slots, again that only will affect loading the scene to the Render engine.  Once that is done the actual rendering process itself will be unaffected.  The time difference for loading the scene is minimal at worst.  As long as the card can fit in your case it will work.  What Nvidia card do you have in it now?

    As to the CPU, your MB has an LGA 1150 socket which will support all Haswell and Broadwell i-series CPUs Just watch the power draw if you plan to upgrade. The i3 you have consumes 54W at peak. The one plus is it has hyperthreading so it has 4 processor threads effectively giving you the processing capability of a "straight" quad core CPU. At 3.4 GHz the base speed isn't bad (my i7 is only 2.8 GHz) though it has no turbo boost.  It also can support a maximum of 32 GB (your MB maxes out at 16 GB).  While you could swap for a Haswell i7 it would again mean having to upgrade the PSU to ensure you have enough overhead as the i7s consume 30 more watts than your i3.  

    AS it sounds like you are going to roll back to W7, the reserved VRAM is not an issue and you will have pretty much the full memory capabilities of the card.  To me the weakest link is your PSU's output however with the rest of the system "as is" and the 1060 you should be fine

    As to having old comp[onents just lying around, I have two Radeon HD 7950s I used with Lux Render which are now in a box in storage.  This is the issue with the tech curve as what is "hot" one day is a "door stop" the next.  My GT 460 (which set me back nearly 300USD) was pretty close to "top of the line" when I bought it.  About all it is useful for today is running the displays as with 1 GB of VRAM i'd be lucky to render a simple "still life" scene.  One fully clothed G3 figure with hair and a simple backdrop would send the process into CPU mode within moments.

    There are times I really miss painting and drawing as it takes decades, if not a century or two for the tools of the trade to become outdated.

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the recommended PSU output is based on all system components, not just the GPU card. The 6 GB version of 1060 draws only a maximum of 120 W at peak output.

    Ah.  Yes.  That makes much more sense than what I understood about power usage.  Thank you.

    kyoto kid said:
    There are times I really miss painting and drawing as it takes decades, if not a century or two for the tools of the trade to become outdated.

    My Dad recently took up oil painting, and has proven to be an extraordinarily fast learner.  He showed me one of his pieces - a small island in the middle of a lake surrounded by mountains.  If I hadn't known it was his, I would've thought it was done by a professional with several years of experience.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,409
    edited June 2017

    ...I had to give it up because of advancing arthritis.  Pretty much been invoplves with the visual arts for most of my life.

    This is why programes like Daz, Hexagon, Carrara, and Krita "jive" with me while others like Poser and Blender don't

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,766

    My rendering machine is an old Dell workstation with dual Xeon X5570 CPUs.  These are the workstation version of the 1st generation i7, and my machine loves my GTX 1060.

    Your system will work just fine with a GTX 10xx series GPU.
    The one thing that you might need to consider is the physical length of the card.  
    They come in several different lengths:

    6.8" Single Fan
    8.27" Dual Fan (from Zotac)
    10.5" Dual Fan Full Length (Or Single Blower Fan venting out the back of the case)
     

    Just remember the get a card that fits in your case.

  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    edited June 2017

    Cool, back from the bazaar. Got these 2 items:

    GPU: https://www.zotac.com/us/product/graphics_card/zotac-geforce-gtx-1060-amp-edition#spec

    CPU: https://ark.intel.com/products/75040/Intel-Core-i5-4440S-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz

    The people at the store said that my motherboard will not keep up with the i7 4th Gen CPUs. Hence I had to get the i5 one. I hope it works fine.

    The card fits perfectly fine in the case :) with still some space remaining. My case is very big lol :)

    Downloading the Nvidia Drivers now. Will let you know once i get a pic rendered and after I get rid of the ants that took over my bed in my absence.

    Cheers!

    Post edited by SPadhi89 on
  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170

    OHHH MYYY GOD!!!!!!!
    THIS IS AMAZING!!!

    Rendered all the example images and they got rendered within 1-6 minutes at the max :O Even the batman pic which took 6 hours to render completely, just took 6-7 minutes with resolution quality value at 10. :P Awesome!!! None of them is post worked :P

    I am dancing all absurd type of dance forms now. Time to grab drinks and dance again, feel happy and get married. I love you all friends!!

    But 1 question. Shall I keep the CPU and GeForce both checked in Render Settings? Or just keep the 1060 box checked?

    CPU + GPU+Environment RENDER.png
    1000 x 1000 - 1M
    Batsy.png
    2000 x 2000 - 4M
    Diana1.png
    1000 x 1000 - 2M
    Diana2.png
    1000 x 1000 - 1M
  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817
    edited June 2017

    LOL!

    Congratulations!  Welcome to the future.  I am genuinely happy for you.  :)

    There are two camps on whether to tell Iray to use the CPU.  If the CPU is slow enough, it can negatively effect your render speed, like attaching a large couch to a race car (the race car being the GPU).  Its the CUDA cores in the GPU that Iray really wants.  As I mentionaed earlier, if I enable my Core i7, my PC slows to a crawl while rendering, depending on scene complexity, so I always leave it un-checked.

    I would suggest doing a couple of benchmarks, one with the CPU enabled and one without.  It certainly won't hurt anything, and you might even see a speed increase.

    Post edited by Nyghtfall3D on
  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    edited June 2017
    Nyghtfall said:

    LOL!

    Congratulations!  Welcome to the future.  I am genuinely happy for you.  :)

    There are two camps on whether to tell Iray to use the CPU.  If the CPU is slow enough, it can negatively effect your render speed, like attaching a large couch to a race car (the race car being the GPU).  Its the CUDA cores in the GPU that Iray really wants.  As I mentionaed earlier, if I enable my Core i7, my PC slows to a crawl while rendering, depending on scene complexity, so I always leave it un-checked.

    I would suggest doing a couple of benchmarks, one with the CPU enabled and one without.  It certainly won't hurt anything, and you might even see a speed increase.

    i think u r correct! And thank you all.. Nyghtfall, Kyoto, Havos, James, Taoz and everybody else for the very elaborate discussion. Nice, I learnt many things ...

    i should render with GPU only.. GPU+CPU becomes a little slow.. but not that great slowness.. rendered the first Batsy's image and checked :) there is a little speed difference.

    i should head out to gather drinks now.. i will drink to enjoy for getting what i wanted and i will drink to mourn for going bankrupt in the next couple of months lol

    Post edited by SPadhi89 on
  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817

    You are quite welcome. I'm glad I could help.  :)

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653

    I noticed that if I GPU and CPU with the beast it runs quite hotter so I have just been GPU rendering..

  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170
    Bobvan said:

    I noticed that if I GPU and CPU with the beast it runs quite hotter so I have just been GPU rendering..

    yup.. GPU.. so now i am thinking, did i do a mistake by upgrading my CPU??

    :O :O :O :O

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 817

    yup.. GPU.. so now i am thinking, did i do a mistake by upgrading my CPU??

    Not necessarily.  Your PC should be faster now, including bootup and loading apps, it just won't benefit Iray much.

  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170

    Okay, money gone, nothing can be done!!

    Let me be happy with what I have now :)

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2017
    Bobvan said:

    I noticed that if I GPU and CPU with the beast it runs quite hotter so I have just been GPU rendering..

    yup.. GPU.. so now i am thinking, did i do a mistake by upgrading my CPU??

    :O :O :O :O

    Glad to hear you are having success with the new card. As others have said, I also only render on GPU, I normally work on other things as the computer is rendering, so I want a fully responsive machine whilst I work. I find adding the CPU makes a minimal difference to the render time anyway.

    Having a better CPU should mean the initial delay when starting rendering should be a bit shorter, and you might notice less lag when panning round the scene whilst IRay preview is activated.

    Always good to have a faster CPU for other tasks as well.

    Edit: I recommend getting GPU-Z to see how much VRAM your scenes are using, so you know how much an issue the lost memory is for your typical scenes. Based on what you have posted I am guessing you are using way less memory than the card can handle. My personal recommendation would be to stay with W10, though I know others have a very different view on this.

    Post edited by Havos on
  • EtheralEtheral Posts: 91

    Just wanted to say, all current GPUs will work fine in a PCI-E 2.0 slot with pretty much no performance difference. 3.0 is meant to be futureproof in the same way 2.0 was back when it came out. Also your old CPU was more than good enough, you shouldn't have upgraded. Since you don't need to use CPU for rendering. Also the people at the store are wrong, your motherboard can keep up with any LGA1150 socket CPU. Though you won't be able to overclock.

  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,766

    While your new i5 won't help much in actual Iray rendering, it will help your computer in every other aspect.  You should notice the computer will respond a little quicker in all of your general computing tasks.  You are most likely going from a dual core with hyperthreading (2 cores pretending to be 4) to and actual quad core processor with 4 independent cores.

    There is no downside to upgrading your CPU other than having a little less money now. cheeky

  • SPadhi89SPadhi89 Posts: 170

    Ok, I am somewhat convinced.

    Now, I want to make a complex scene, medieval battlfield. Do we have any software that can help us create crowds?

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