Get frustrated every time I attempt to use Daz Studio
davejas
Posts: 0
This program is incredibly frustrating every time I try and use it. I figure there's a learning curve but I've learned how to use Xcode to write my own iPhone apps, I am learning Unity to make games, I've known Photoshop and simiar programs for years. ALL of these had a learning curve but at least there was a sense of small steps and accomplishments. Daz Studio has those as well but it really feels like "one step forward, three steps back". I installed the latest yesterday after not using this for awhile, In the past, I have used Poser and imported Daz assets, which worked somewhat but was cumbersome and buggy. So I thought that yesterday, I'd clear my old build, download the latest and see if anything has changed for the better. No, it has not! The Daz installer does not install what you need to run the program, you have to get an error message that it needs a "valid PostgreSQL CMS connection" So I found that and installed it, I installed the helper assets to run the tutorials and they did not show up in the file panel. I attempt to move around 3D space with the move, rotate and zoom tools and it is horribly jerky and cumbersome. I really CAN'T imagine working this way for an extended period of time. I decided to try a render and with the basic settings, half an hour later it was about 50% done and looked like grainy. Poser does a better job and faster. I just don't get the appeal of this. I see the potential, many of the assets and models look great! It's just USING the tool that is such a constant nightmare. I don't believe it's a learning curve with this program, I think it is poorly built. I want to like this and want to use it but it seems like a constant uphill battle to do the most basic things.
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Comments
One thing to remember, "your" experience doesn't echo what most other users experience. Might be better to ask for specific help with any issues you are having rather than just dissing the whole app. What are your PC specs for instance, how are you installing, what are you installing, using DIM or not, all questions that can help in narrowing down the issues for you.
I tried DS several times before "getting" it, and it's my preferred app now. After 5+ years using poser only I find poser cumbersome now that I am used to DS.
Also if you are intending to use DAZ assets in game design, you will need a developer license https://www.daz3d.com/commercial-game-developer-license
Daz Studio by default uses Nvidia's Iray rendering engine. Your rendering speeds will be mainly based on what graphics card you have. As a fallback if you do not have a Nvidia card or if the card does not have enough memory to render your scene, it will use your CPU which will be very slow. Iray is a progressive render engine, it creates successive iterations refining the render with each pass. The nice thing about that is at any point if you like thae way it looks, you can hit cancel on the render and save it as is.
If you just want to run classic style, you can switch the render engine over to 3Delight. This will get you CPU only renders that will be noise free and render in blocks (one for each CPU thread at a time)
I have also learnt XCode in order to write IOS apps, and IMHO learning to use DAZ Studio was far easier than the very complex task of writing Objective C code and getting it compile/build etc in XCode, albeit it has got somewhat easier in the last year or so after XCode took over the management of managing profiles.
Anyway I suspect most of your issues are related to installation and finding your assets, which are common problems for new users. When installing you need to install everything that comes for free with the program, ie the multiple Genesis starter packs, and other shader and tutorial packs. Only after this should you start any of the tutorials.
The reason why your renders are slow/noisy compared to Poser is that you are using IRay, which is an unbiased renderer, unlike the firefly renderer in Poser which is a biased one. For decent speed for IRay you need to have a nVidia card. If you switch to the 3DL renderer in DAZ Studio then speeds should be comparable to Poser.
Regarding your issues with rotate/zoom and jerkiness try going into Edit->Preferences, click on the "Interface" tab, and change "Display Optimization" to best
My experience with Poser is very similar to yours with DAZ Studio. I loathe and detest Poser even though I have bought it (twice - don't ask). The only time I find the DAZ viewport slow and jerky is if I have too much content in the scene or a lot of high-poly objects such as fibre hair. I'm not saying that DS is ideal and there are many things requiring improvements but I'd rather give up the hobby than move to Poser.
By the way, is the Poser render engine faster than IRay? I believe it is a version of Cycles and I know that some DS users prefer to render using Blender Cycles. But, as I understand it, it has a similar requirement for a high-end GPU with lots of VRAM if it is going to produce relatively quick renders, or am I mistaken?
Another former Poser user who now uses DS, except I used Poser for about 17-18 years before I switched o.O. It wasn't an easy transition - it took time - but like FSMCDesigns, I tried multiple times before I "got it". If you need help, feel free to ask. There are many people willing to help you. If you give it time and don't expect miracles overnight, you'll get there.
Laurie
I never had an issue using DAZ since I first discovered it in 2005. And back then I wasn't even into CG Art at all. I liked it so much better than Poser, but later on, I had no problems using Poser, because of the fact that I had become so good using DAZ, I realized it is very much the same concept, just a different layout/UI with Poser. I gave myself time and kept using Poser until I improved much. I now use both programs, although just prefer DAZ much more. Just because you're having a tough time using it, it's no cause to put down the program. If you think Poser is better, then stick to Poser. It's all about what works for you.
I have used Daz Studio since 2005 as well, and i used Poser 4 also back then. I wasn't very good with either, but i enjoyed playing with the "dolls", dressing them up, and making scenes--rendering them was more difficult because i didn't have a high end computer, by any means. I suppose i enjoyed collecting the models, and making scenes. Much later, when i finally had a nice machine that could make good renders in Iray or in 3Delight, i find i feel at home in Daz Studio, and rarely have to think about it. I can't say it is better than Poser, because i stopped using Poser a long time ago, since Daz Studio was free and i was able to inexpensively upgrade to the Pro version. I'm still learning, and i still collect models, sometimes even make a nice render. There is a lot of knowledge and experience, and some day i'll have more, and do better. But i always have fun with it. I'm glad i'm involved with it today.
The "valid PostgreSQL CMS connection" only matters if you want to use Connect to install content, if you use the DAZ Install Manager(DIM) you can ignore the error. As was mentioned, DAZ Studio now uses the Iray render engine which requires a lot of VRAM or it will render with the cpu, which is very slow. I suggest going into render settings and changing the render engine to 3Dellight. You can always change it back later if you want to. I would also suggest watching the following free video tutorials. They will give you an idea of how Studio is set up. They were written for DAZ Studio 4.5, so while most things willl work the same, the tutorials won't have any information about Iray.
https://www.daz3d.com/7-steps-to-great-art-now
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-quick-start
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-1-software
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-2-scene-making
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-3-posing-and-morphing
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-4-camera
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-5-lights
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-6-rendering
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-step-7-postwork
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-bonus-animation-101
https://www.daz3d.com/great-art-now-bonus-modeling-101
I think poser is closing up shop. I heard a rumor they were going out of business. Not sure if that is true, but I personally find DAZ Studio far more intuitive.
Although I agree on some points that DAZ is jerky, cumbersome and poorly built in a lot of places, from your description it seems like you barely even tried the software honestly. A render being grainy after 30 minutes doesn't really say anything. Did you use GPU or CPU to render it and what was the resolution? What kind of lighting was there? You need to learn how iray works if you want to reduce grain and speed up your renders. Largely by trial and error.
If you think the navigation is a pain, you could try make it more like Unreal Engine or Unity if you change some keyboard shortcuts around. I have the Active Scene Navigator set to Q and Universal Tool set to E and so I can press Q to switch to wasd+mouse for navigation and then press E whenever I want to select stuff. I got used to that and navigation is pretty good and fast as long as the scene isn't too cluttered.
Gradually you can find shortcuts and various ways to optimise your workflow. Stuff like changing the toolbar layout, setting up custom filters, using categories as shortcuts to commonly used folders, using scripts. There's a lot you can do to make it easier and less cumbersome to use.
I am a "veteran" of the Poser /Daz community.
I started using poser when it was "Fractal Designs poser 2"
and I remember that fateful day when former Daz PA ,Anton Kisell revealed ,in the old "poser forum" thread, that Daz was developing "Its own Figure posing and rendering program"
later introduced as Daz studio.
As a Character animator, I pretty much ignored Daz studio until the
advent of the "aniMate"nonlinear motion building system around DS version 2.3
and from that point poser,s days as primary character tool for me, began drawing to a close.
The source of the OP's technical problems have all been likely diagnosed by others in this thread.
I believe alot of the difficulty for poser users stems from wanting DS to behave/function like poser.
DS is NOT poser.
I Worked for 20 years as a Professional Graphic Designer in the Washington DC metro market.
I and am Fluent in other complicated Programs Like the Adobe Creative suite.,After effects CS and other 3D apps like Maxon Cinema4D & MODO and am completely self taught with no formal training in computer graphics other than internet tutorials.
DS is no challenge for me because I dont expect it to work like my other programs.
This a mental challenge more than a technical one.
One has to be willing/able to completely switch mental gears when moving between radically different software.
This is not entirely true, the Postgre database is not only needed for DAZ Connect, but is also needed for using Smart Content, which makes Daz Studio much easier to use for new users, and (IMHO) is a big time saver for experienced users as well. Smart Content is set up even if you only use DIM for installing content, so I would recommend ensuring that the Postgre database is also installed.
I am not sure they are closing up shop, but they did fire all except 1 of their development staff. They are saying they are hiring new staff in Portugal, but I have no idea how long that would take. I think it is fair to guess that a new version is likely to be significantly delayed.
Firing almost everyone in development... doesn't bode well. That's... not how you move a team. You NEED the institutional memory of a team like that to get new folks up to speed, even if your internal documentation is amazing (and it probably isn't)
Wow.
The one man they kept was Larry Weinburg, the guy that originally created Poser, so clearly some significant knowledge has been retained, but you are correct that this seems a drastic way to relocate a team. I guess they needed to cut costs fast.
Edit: I should mention that this is not recent news btw, all this happened back in November 2016, though I only read about it a few weeks ago.
that Poser news doesn't sound good. I am having a very difficvult time with DS myself. I have used Poser since V1, although I rarely use it anymore. Usually end up designing faces and rendering headshots, if anything. Still buy content though. Not sure why, but the stuff looks cool.
I worked with DAZ tech support for awhile on trying to make DS usable, but in vain. The content locations are so screwed up. Wish it just auto installed where the stuff HAS to be for it to be catalogued correctly. It also seems, depending on what figure or part of a figure is active, the UI changes from one side to another, with different items appearing in the dialog boxes. The content is all over the place. left side, right side, hidden in some tab ... and it all changes during scene development. Its a mess in my opnion. +
That's the same problem I have, daveso. I had the content libraries semi-working, but something was not right so I installed the latest version of DAZ Studio and nearly *everything* disappeared. When people say DS is more intuitive than Poser, I gasp, scratch my head, and blink a lot. I would need a live tutor to actually sit next to me. I've used Poser since 1995 when it came on 3 floppies. I've taught myself basic Bryce and Vue. My main use for DS became importing Poser creations into Bryce. I don't seem to be able to do anything else with it. I'm envious of some of the products and abilities of DS. Much of the content looks beautiful, and more advanced than Poser. I'm not against DAZ studio, it seems to be the other way around. I'll keep reading. I don't expect DS to work like Poser.
I learned some basic Unity a bit ago.. I found it and Daz share a lot of simiilar interface designs. I found it very easy to transfer my Daz knowledge to Unity, so perhaps the reverse is true.
My only big problem with Daz is that it's so poorly documented (though it's hardly unique in that).
There is some extent to which the UI and approach an application takes will suit your style and approach to work in different ways, although you really need to dive into it to find out how it truly fits you.
Me, I've bounced hard off of Blender every time I've tried it, and everyone's recommendations to study hundreds of hours of video tutorials, when I loathe video tutorials? Nnngh.
Meanwhile, I've found Daz, Bryce, and Carrara easier to just 'dive in' and make things happen.
I took 6 months off of Poser and everything else and just sat with DS a little bit every day. Eventually, I "got it". It's not easy and it's very different from Poser if that's what you're used to, but once you get it out of your head that it's not Poser (and not supposed to be), then things fall into place eventually :). I'd hate to see you give up - you've been around a long time, probably as long as I have. If you need any help and I can help out, just ask. I don't claim to know everything - I'm still learning too, but I'll be glad to share what I know.
Laurie
To the OP - Do not give up! As Will mentioned, the existing documentation is not user-friendly to a new user. It took me well over a month when I was a newbie to create renders I liked, and those were very crude indeed. And I, too, had a long background with other graphics programs so I found it frustrating. I woudln't call myself a Studio wizard by any means, but I can do most of what I want without constantly resorting to consulting online manuals.
There are good tutorials scattered all over, and also some not-so-good ones. For what it's worth, I recommend going to www.issuu.com and read through some back issues of DS Creative. While I don't think many of the freebie links will work anymore, DS Creative had some of the best-written and clearest of how-tos and tutorials for Studio that I've ever seen. I learned a lot from them and i think you will too.
It isn't just Poser, Smith Micro is in significant financial difficulty. Check on the financial boards to read about it. SMSI was never focused on graphics, they are a wireless company. And that business has dried up. The Poser development team was a casualty of that.
Inagine if Hivewire can find a financial backer to buy out Poser from them DAZ might have to get of their bums to be more competitive making stuff more universally compatible.
just saying
Poser, in its current state, would not revive its content market
simply by virtue of another parent company owning it.
Even if we assume that Hivewires "Dawn" becomes the default poser female she cant compete with genesis 3 directly nor in terms of
the ease at which new content producers can create content for Genesis 3.
Note how Dawn has not become the defacto default poser female already.
that title remains in the hands of DAZ vicky4 and her 11 years of content
Poser has Bigger problems beyond the lack of a modern, uber popular pretty white girl as flagship model .
Is poser content more "more universally compatible"
Does poser export to animated meshes to MDD or Alembic for us who dont care for FBX ,Collada with their many pitfalls??
Does poser have a nonlinear motion creation system for Character animation or is it still using the same vestigial system from 1995?(rethorical question)
Will hivewire deliver poser content as proper Unity installer packages
as Morph3D currently does??
All of these matters would have to be considered By any new financial backer looking to buy poser and make it competitive again.
Thank you.
You're welcome :)
Laurie
The flip side of it is that the development of Poser under SMhad slowed to an almost glacial pace, with the majority of the significant add-ons in the latest versions being either cosmetic or at least partly the contributions of outside talent... Blender's render engine, the comic book render which was pushed through by Brian Habberlin, and a series of disasterously unpopular new figures, whereas the vast majority of Poser's most important development occurred durning the madcap period in which the software was swapping between different owners like a game of hot potato. Honestly, I like the guys at SM personally, but it really doesn't seem like they've had any interest in doing more than milking the Poser brand with the least possible investment, so is losing the current team really all that much of a loss?
And to the original poster. I, too, started off with Poser and I tiried getting into DS several times and just couldn't figure it out. Then, somewhere towards the middle of the DS3 period, I sat down and tried to approach it with a completely fresh mind, forgetting everything I knew about Poser and it was.... better. DS just does things in it's own funky way, and the documentation ranks among the worst in the industry, but the rewards of using Genesis made me force my way through it and, fortunately, the forums always have a lot of people who're willing to help.
I agree the content organization sucks
Sometimes I just have to stop because I'm tired of serching sub-folders of sub-folders to find content
I make my own categories and don't use studios categories. Studios categories are way to messy for me.