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►►► ....and, all links lead to the EULA!

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  • Jake_35533Jake_35533 Posts: 242
    edited December 1969

    jmper said:
    “If User does not agree to the terms of this EULA, please do not select the “Accept” button below or continue User’s purchase, download, or use of any Content. In the case User does not accept this EULA, User must delete any and all previously obtained Content from User’s computer systems and from any backup devices that User may have used.”

    It is not that I am not accepting it. I'm not signing it.

    Rewrite or refund my purchases.

    Exactly. They can't make you delete content you already purchased before the new EULA existed. They would have to refund that money since the EULA claims it applies to ALL content past and present.

  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,814
    edited December 1969

    OK I have some answers for you:

    From Steve Spencer:

    There have been several questions raised about the new EULA. Specifically:

    - The 7 day Warranty:
    DAZ EULA's have always included a 7 day Warranty. The Warranty is different than our return policy. Our policy has not changed in this respect.

    - User vs. Household licenses of software:
    DAZ EULA's have always granted a license to a single user. This is not a change. We have actually expanded the licensing by allowing multiple computers and physical locations for the user.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I think that catches most of the main questions though if there are others not answered here or if you need more clarification, please let me know :)

    Re-posting to be sure this isn't missed :)

  • WhiteWineWhiteWine Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    All of this ain't about us not understanding DAZ, this is about DAZ not thinking about things affect their customers.
    How about a real official statement "before" placing this new EULA on products we bought years ago?

    And this is indeed not the fist time DAZ did things like that... just thinking of all the vouchers and coupons that didn't work, the problems with pm's and the shop... or the old forum gone overnight... changed installers... ect.

    I'm not sure how much more the "survivors" of the last year can take anymore.

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 548
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    OK I have some answers for you:

    From Steve Spencer:

    There have been several questions raised about the new EULA. Specifically:

    - The 7 day Warranty:
    DAZ EULA's have always included a 7 day Warranty. The Warranty is different than our return policy. Our policy has not changed in this respect.

    - User vs. Household licenses of software:
    DAZ EULA's have always granted a license to a single user. This is not a change. We have actually expanded the licensing by allowing multiple computers and physical locations for the user.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I think that catches most of the main questions though if there are others not answered here or if you need more clarification, please let me know :)

    Re-posting to be sure this isn't missed :)

    Thank you Ann. Sounds good.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,086
    edited December 1969

    Faerydae said:
    Muon Quark said:
    Do you really seriously think they would shoot themselves in the foot this way? Have we really all become so suspicious that we immediately think the worst before gathering all the facts?

    Based on some of the things that have happened here in the last few years, unfortunately yes!

    ETA: I do hope we are all just extremely paranoid and DAZ did just word things wrong.

    I'm sure they have lawyers, and that the lawyers looked over the wording. So I don't know if this is a mistake. If it is a mistake, they should fire the lawyers and get new ones who know what the hell they're doing.

    Dana

  • Jake_35533Jake_35533 Posts: 242
    edited February 2013

    LeeMellon said:
    All of this ain't about us not understanding DAZ, this is about DAZ not thinking about things affect their customers.
    How about a real official statement "before" placing this new EULA on products we bought years ago?

    And this is indeed not the fist time DAZ did things like that... just thinking of all the vouchers and coupons that didn't work, the problems with pm's and the shop... or the old forum gone overnight... changed installers... ect.

    I'm not sure how much more the "survivors" of the last year can take anymore.

    There is a big different in changing things for improvement (which I can understand despite the inconvenience) and threatening to sue you if you don't comply with unrealistic and sudden legal demands forced on you.

    Post edited by Jake_35533 on
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,814
    edited December 1969

    Please be sure you all dont miss my post above :) And let me know if there are more questions :)

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    DanaTA said:
    Faerydae said:
    Muon Quark said:
    Do you really seriously think they would shoot themselves in the foot this way? Have we really all become so suspicious that we immediately think the worst before gathering all the facts?

    Based on some of the things that have happened here in the last few years, unfortunately yes!

    ETA: I do hope we are all just extremely paranoid and DAZ did just word things wrong.

    I'm sure they have lawyers, and that the lawyers looked over the wording. So I don't know if this is a mistake. If it is a mistake, they should fire the lawyers and get new ones who know what the hell they're doing.

    Dana

    Agreed!

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    Please be sure you all dont miss my post above :) And let me know if there are more questions :)

    Didn't miss it. Thanks Ann! :)

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,086
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    OK I have some answers for you:


    - User vs. Household licenses of software:
    DAZ EULA's have always granted a license to a single user. This is not a change. We have actually expanded the licensing by allowing multiple computers and physical locations for the user.


    Well, this means you've been breaking the EULA rules when you let your child use your stuff! And it still means that. Sad.

    Dana

  • WhiteWineWhiteWine Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Jake__Russel said:
    LeeMellon said:
    All of this ain't about us not understanding DAZ, this is about DAZ not thinking about things affect their customers.
    How about a real official statement "before" placing this new EULA on products we bought years ago?

    And this is indeed not the fist time DAZ did things like that... just thinking of all the vouchers and coupons that didn't work, the problems with pm's and the shop... or the old forum gone overnight... changed installers... ect.

    I'm not sure how much more the "survivors" of the last year can take anymore.

    There is a big different in changing things for improvement (which I can understand despite the inconvenience) and threatening to sue you if you don't comply with unrealistic and sudden legal demands.


    Well, if for example the coupon-option does not work, just don't spread more coupons until the problem is solved...

    and for the EULA - let them place a new one but for purchases to come, not for purchases done in the past.

  • mmalbertmmalbert Posts: 412
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    Please be sure you all dont miss my post above :) And let me know if there are more questions :)

    Will the new EULA blocking my downloadable products -- for which I've already paid AND checked the users agreement -- be removed so I can just reset past purchases?

    I'm really annoyed about this.

    And now the cat just threw up on the carpet. Argh!

    :shut:

  • Jake_35533Jake_35533 Posts: 242
    edited February 2013

    QUOTE: "...User has installed the Content is for User’s exclusive use and no other individual or entityEach individual must obtain his/her own license to use the Content."

    QUESTION: How do you purchase a license apart from the content?

    QUOTE: User shall not give, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer or distribute the Content on a temporary or permanent basis without the prior written consent of DAZ. User may not reverse engineer, de-compile, disassemble, or create derivative works from the Content except as set forth in Section E above. These restrictions do not pertain to rendered 2-D images or pre-rendered animations.

    QUESTION:
    -So does this mean I have to tell Daz when I move my content on another hard drive or mail content to myself or store it online for myself?
    -So does this mean you can't modify any DAZ object in Lightwave or Maya and then send it to someone for a project?
    -So I can't use the DAZ objects in live animations like a video game (or iPhone app)?


    QUOTE: User agrees to indemnify DAZ and hold DAZ harmless against all liability resulting from or related to any claim of patent or copyright infringement, misappropriation...

    QUESTION: So is the person who made the DAZ morph that looks like Angelina Jolie going to get sued as well as anyone who renders that character since DAZ will be held harmless against selling a look-a-like of real people?

    Post edited by Jake_35533 on
  • SilvheSilvhe Posts: 790
    edited February 2013

    From the EULA:

    "If User does not agree to the terms of this EULA, please do not select the “Accept” button below or continue User’s purchase, download, or use of any Content. In the case User does not accept this EULA, User must delete any and all previously obtained Content from User’s computer systems and from any backup devices that User may have used."

    Ok, I don't accept and I'm deleting all my previously purchased content.
    A couple of questions:
    - what about all the renders I've made with DAZ's content? May I keep the images or I have to delete them as well?
    - how do you plan to refund the money I paid for the content? I use both Paypal and a credit card, I don't mind, you can choose the one you like the most

    Post edited by Silvhe on
  • DAZ_KevinDAZ_Kevin Posts: 2,420
    edited December 1969

    This was a Project based EXCEPTION, not a EULA Change. The EULA is pretty much the same as before. Letting your kids use your content in your home, or on your computer has not changed at all. As was noted, the NEW EULA is LESS restrictive than the old EULA.

    Kattey said:
    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    Kattey said:
    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    We have pointed DAZ to the thread to answer your questions (which was also our reason for combining), please be patient and try to hold any assumption on what is meant by the new EULA until they have had a chance to come in and clarify their meaning on the questions raised.

    Sorry for the delay :(

    Ann, I might remember it wrong but I remember it was you who was sharing your purchased products with your child to let your child play and create art. Does it mean that under new EULA you can't do that anymore?

    We allow for that on our site in our EULA and that may be what you are thinking of. That said, I am honestly not sure, which is why I referred DAZ3D to the thread. I know there are people that do let their kids play etc and I am not at all certain exactly what is meant and don't want to say one way or another and be wrong. I rather be sure what is meant or let DAZ3D clarify rather then make an assumption and be wrong but I am sure someone will be in to answer these questions. :) I am sorry I am not more helpful at the moment :(

    Previously DAZ3D products were household-shared. I remember when we worked on M4 wiki we asked and DAZ3D said we can even share products for the purpose of the project despite being not physically connected. But this isn't possible anymore under new EULA. This is why I thought about you and your child probably.

    {hugs Ann} Not your fault. You are a good person.

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 548
    edited December 1969

    Ann, you might have to repost those answers in big bright red letters so people will read them........

  • Jake_35533Jake_35533 Posts: 242
    edited December 1969

    Silvhe said:
    From the EULA:

    "If User does not agree to the terms of this EULA, please do not select the “Accept” button below or continue User’s purchase, download, or use of any Content. In the case User does not accept this EULA, User must delete any and all previously obtained Content from User’s computer systems and from any backup devices that User may have used."

    Ok, I don't accept and I'm deleting all my previously purchased content.
    A couple of questions:
    - what about all the renders I've made with DAZ's content? May I keep the images or I have to delete them as well?
    - how do you plan to refund the money I paid for the content? I use both Paypal and a credit card, I don't mind, you can choose the one you like the most

    They are currently rewording this part of the EULA so be patient.

  • SilvheSilvhe Posts: 790
    edited February 2013

    Jake__Russel said:
    Silvhe said:
    From the EULA:

    "If User does not agree to the terms of this EULA, please do not select the “Accept” button below or continue User’s purchase, download, or use of any Content. In the case User does not accept this EULA, User must delete any and all previously obtained Content from User’s computer systems and from any backup devices that User may have used."

    Ok, I don't accept and I'm deleting all my previously purchased content.
    A couple of questions:
    - what about all the renders I've made with DAZ's content? May I keep the images or I have to delete them as well?
    - how do you plan to refund the money I paid for the content? I use both Paypal and a credit card, I don't mind, you can choose the one you like the most

    They are currently rewording this part of the EULA so be patient.
    Maybe next time they could read what they write BEFORE make it live on the website and avoid a poor figure...

    Post edited by Silvhe on
  • jmperjmper Posts: 257
    edited February 2013

    I know the language is going to be changed BUT...

    This is your website and I understand that.

    Next time, you block me from my account with a retroactive EULA, I'm making a phone call to have you remove my account.

    Post edited by jmper on
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,814
    edited February 2013

    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    OK I have some answers for you:

    From Steve Spencer:

    There have been several questions raised about the new EULA. Specifically:

    - The 7 day Warranty:
    DAZ EULA's have always included a 7 day Warranty. The Warranty is different than our return policy. Our policy has not changed in this respect.

    - User vs. Household licenses of software:
    DAZ EULA's have always granted a license to a single user. This is not a change. We have actually expanded the licensing by allowing multiple computers and physical locations for the user.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I think that catches most of the main questions though if there are others not answered here or if you need more clarification, please let me know :)

    Re-posting to be sure this isn't missed :)

    Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    Okay, looking somewhat better. Glad to see you've reenabled account and store access. Glad to see the bit about deleting old content going away as well.

    However, I purchased a license to use old content under different terms. It’s illegal to try to force me into retroactively altering the agreement like this. Go ahead and apply these new terms to new purchases, but the old ones remain unaffected unless I actually agree to new ones for them, say by reinstalling with the DIM, etcetera.

    Since I have a decent amount of store credit currently, which I can’t use in any way without consenting to terms that affect previous agreements, this is coercion. It's one thing to apply this to all new content I might purchase from the store, or all content I download after the new EULA is in place, but it's an entirely different thing to prevent me from using credit without changing old agreements.

    I don't even mind the new EULA. But I sincerely hope the way you're implementing it, and the way you're attempting to alter previously binding legal agreements through it, are accidents.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Kevin said:
    This was a Project based EXCEPTION, not a EULA Change. The EULA is pretty much the same as before. Letting your kids use your content in your home, or on your computer has not changed at all. As was noted, the NEW EULA is LESS restrictive than the old EULA.
    Yes, thank you, Kevin, it was an exception, and I remember it very fondly as the whole M4 Wiki project was probably the happiest time of my life here on DAZ3D.

    Maybe I'm not remembering right about household there. I looked into older EULAs and I don't see much of wording changed there. My apologies.

    Can you please also clarify the whole "physical" thing aspect?
    “Physical images ... of Content or any art derived from the Content is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account, permission to deliver User’s derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium. ....These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed”.
    What it is about, what license meant and what about quantity?


    OK I have some answers for you:

    From Steve Spencer:

    There have been several questions raised about the new EULA. Specifically:

    - The 7 day Warranty:
    DAZ EULA's have always included a 7 day Warranty. The Warranty is different than our return policy. Our policy has not changed in this respect.

    - User vs. Household licenses of software:
    DAZ EULA's have always granted a license to a single user. This is not a change. We have actually expanded the licensing by allowing multiple computers and physical locations for the user.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I think that catches most of the main questions though if there are others not answered here or if you need more clarification, please let me know :)

    Re-posting to be sure this isn't missed :)


    Thank you, Ann, I hope that new EULA will address that unacceptable aspect of itself in a better way.
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,814
    edited December 1969

    Agent_Unawares said:
    Since I have a decent amount of store credit currently, which I can’t use in any way without consenting to terms that affect previous agreements, this is coercion. It's one thing to apply this to all new content I might purchase from the store, or all content I download after the new EULA is in place, but it's an entirely different thing to prevent me from using credit without changing old agreements.

    I don't even mind the new EULA. But I sincerely hope the way you're implementing it, and the way you're attempting to alter previously binding legal agreements through it, are accidents.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I would wait to see if they plan on clarifying or amending that part....

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    Agent_Unawares said:
    Since I have a decent amount of store credit currently, which I can’t use in any way without consenting to terms that affect previous agreements, this is coercion. It's one thing to apply this to all new content I might purchase from the store, or all content I download after the new EULA is in place, but it's an entirely different thing to prevent me from using credit without changing old agreements.

    I don't even mind the new EULA. But I sincerely hope the way you're implementing it, and the way you're attempting to alter previously binding legal agreements through it, are accidents.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I would wait to see if they plan on clarifying or amending that part....
    I'll wait, but the part I'm concerned about isn't the removal, it's the part where I must agree to terms that encompass previous purchases in order to make new ones. Haven't seen anything that touched on that yet.

    However, it could possibly fit under that statement, so I guess we'll see. :)

  • Jake_35533Jake_35533 Posts: 242
    edited February 2013

    Why don't they make a separate section in the EULA for current and new content and one for content purchased before 2013 (especially DAZ originals and pre-genesis items)?

    Post edited by Jake_35533 on
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 1,322
    edited December 1969

    Agent_Unawares said:
    I'll wait, but the part I'm concerned about isn't the removal, it's the part where I must agree to terms that encompass previous purchases in order to make new ones. Haven't seen anything that touched on that yet.

    However, it could possibly fit under that statement, so I guess we'll see. :)

    We understand your concern and have relayed it to DAZ as part of this discussion.
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,814
    edited December 1969

    Agent_Unawares said:
    DAZ_ann0314 said:
    Agent_Unawares said:
    Since I have a decent amount of store credit currently, which I can’t use in any way without consenting to terms that affect previous agreements, this is coercion. It's one thing to apply this to all new content I might purchase from the store, or all content I download after the new EULA is in place, but it's an entirely different thing to prevent me from using credit without changing old agreements.

    I don't even mind the new EULA. But I sincerely hope the way you're implementing it, and the way you're attempting to alter previously binding legal agreements through it, are accidents.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.

    I would wait to see if they plan on clarifying or amending that part....


    I'll wait, but the part I'm concerned about isn't the removal, it's the part where I must agree to terms that encompass previous purchases in order to make new ones. Haven't seen anything that touched on that yet.

    However, it could possibly fit under that statement, so I guess we'll see. :)

    Right I understood which part you were concerned with and did specifically ask about that. Since there are things they are looking at some things may get clarified or removed etc. I'm just not sure exactly how it will apply to your specific question and I don't want to say something and be mistaken :)

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited December 1969

    That's totally fine, I understand, I just wanted to be sure it got across since sometimes I have trouble clarifying what I mean. I can be patient [sometimes]. XD

  • RhaleRhale Posts: 77
    edited December 1969

    Ok, so the real scandal that has emerged from this is that people's kids are mooching their content and so literally stealing bread off PA's tables, right?

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,436
    edited December 1969

    DAZ's new EULA contains the sentence:

    In the case User does not accept this EULA, User must delete any and all previously obtained Content from User’s computer systems and from any backup devices that User may have used.

    They can't make you do that.

    If you reject the new terms:
    DAZ can refuse to let you buy new content.
    DAZ can restrict your access to the site.
    DAZ cannot require you to delete content you have already downloaded.
    DAZ cannot prevent you from using content as you have before.

    Here's why:
    When you downloaded your content, it came packaged with a license agreement. That agreement (hereafter called "the old terms") contains the lines THIS IS A LEGAL AND BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU, HEREINAFTER ALSO REFERRED TO AS "USER", AND DAZ PRODUCTIONS, INC., HEREINAFTER ALSO REFERRED TO AS "DAZ3D". and THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT CONSTITUTES THE COMPLETE AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND DAZ3D. It does not contain any provision for changes in the terms, nor for DAZ to terminate the agreement. Therefore, once you have agreed to the old terms, no new terms can apply to your use of the content unless both you and DAZ agree that the new terms supersede the old ones.

    The new EULA does state that it SUPERSEDES AND REPLACES ANY LICENSE AGREEMENT THAT WAS OR WILL BE PRESENTED AT THE TIME OF CONTENT INSTALLATION, but - and here's the key - that term is not legally binding until you positively indicate that you agree to the new EULA. If you have not clicked both the little "I have read and agree to the terms" checkbox and the "accept" button, the words on your screen do not constitute a contract. Until you do that, you may continue to use content as specified under the old terms, and no unilateral action by DAZ can change that.

    tl;dr: if you don't agree to the new terms, you can keep using your old stuff. DAZ can't stop you.

This discussion has been closed.