(Commercial) NOW IN STORE - Sickle Rigging And Morphing System

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  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828
    edited April 2013

    First of all, the SRM kit works brilliantly in general, even with many morph combinations I am getting much better results than I ever could have had with the generic AutoFit / TransferUtility alone :) Thank you for that

    I came across one morph combination where the dress / body suit forms a bulge between the breasts and due to that it transfers that bulge to dresses / clothing. The specific combination is "Aiko5" and "Breasts Small". Is this due to "Aiko5" modifying the "Breasts Small" morph? There is a specific "MCMAiko5BreastsSmall" hidden morph that triggers when "Breasts Small" get dialed in with "Aiko5". Can I amend / reduce this, so that the AutoFit rigs are adjusted as well? I got Hexagon, if that needs to be used - though I am not really proficient in using it.

    Thank you in advance :)

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    There's an inherent limitation with negative chest morphs and bridging adjustments because a negative morph (one that pushes the chest in instead of out) can't really be "bridged." The lump can't be eliminated, but when I checked just now getting rid of that MCM did make it much less obvious. Here's how:


    Dial in both morphs and set the MCM to 0 in the dress manually. Then click the little gear next to the MCM in the dress that brings up the properties. Choose "use limits," and set all the limits to 0 and check "locked." Uncheck "auto follow." Then unconform the dress from Genesis and do a file--save as--support asset--morph asset(s) and save just that MCM.


    Now when you delete and reload it, the lump will not be as bad. Turning up smoothing iterations on the target garment helps as well.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,632
    edited December 1969

    ...so, seeing the above comment, will this work on my petite teen characters or will I run into the same issues?

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...so, seeing the above comment, will this work on my petite teen characters or will I run into the same issues?

    You will if you're using negative breast morphs to achieve that effect on an FBM that uses hidden MCMs. If you're using Julie, Hitomi, or another natively flat morph you'll be fine.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,632
    edited December 1969

    ...yeah pretty much those as well as the Steph4 NPMs via GenX.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited April 2013

    There's still time to get WhopNKar's PimpMyDrezz from Rendo's $3.50 Clearance sale today (April 2nd), if anyone doesn't have it. I'm not a huge fan of short dresses, but this one comes with an uncommonly cute hat/veil prop and there's a really great pack of textures with DAZ mats by Wayii free at ShareCG for it. It was probably too "different" to grab a big audience, but it'd be great for futuristic, steampunk or alternate past scenes with these texture sets.


    Here's a quick pic with one of Wayii's sets for it (Boots from V4 Reiver, also an SRMS conversion, which I got in a grab bag some time ago).

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    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828
    edited December 1969

    There's an inherent limitation with negative chest morphs and bridging adjustments because a negative morph (one that pushes the chest in instead of out) can't really be "bridged." The lump can't be eliminated, but when I checked just now getting rid of that MCM did make it much less obvious. Here's how:


    Dial in both morphs and set the MCM to 0 in the dress manually. Then click the little gear next to the MCM in the dress that brings up the properties. Choose "use limits," and set all the limits to 0 and check "locked." Uncheck "auto follow." Then unconform the dress from Genesis and do a file--save as--support asset--morph asset(s) and save just that MCM.


    Now when you delete and reload it, the lump will not be as bad. Turning up smoothing iterations on the target garment helps as well.

    I tried this route and it certainly makes the bump less noticeable, but it also makes the breasts (of the dress) larger, which I'd rather avoid.

    What I tried now is to create a custom morph for the "MCMAiko5BreastsSmall" morph of the SRMDress01G (not the projection template) and on that dress it works perfectly fine. Now I am pondering though if it is possible to adjust the projection template (or create a new one as copy), which would respect the changes for the AutoFit projection as well, though perhaps I need to think in a completely different way ...

    Anyway, if this pushes it too far for this thread and makes it too technical then just let me know, but I'd appreciate any hint or tip :)

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Renpatsu said:
    There's an inherent limitation with negative chest morphs and bridging adjustments because a negative morph (one that pushes the chest in instead of out) can't really be "bridged." The lump can't be eliminated, but when I checked just now getting rid of that MCM did make it much less obvious. Here's how:


    Dial in both morphs and set the MCM to 0 in the dress manually. Then click the little gear next to the MCM in the dress that brings up the properties. Choose "use limits," and set all the limits to 0 and check "locked." Uncheck "auto follow." Then unconform the dress from Genesis and do a file--save as--support asset--morph asset(s) and save just that MCM.


    Now when you delete and reload it, the lump will not be as bad. Turning up smoothing iterations on the target garment helps as well.

    I tried this route and it certainly makes the bump less noticeable, but it also makes the breasts (of the dress) larger, which I'd rather avoid.

    What I tried now is to create a custom morph for the "MCMAiko5BreastsSmall" morph of the SRMDress01G (not the projection template) and on that dress it works perfectly fine. Now I am pondering though if it is possible to adjust the projection template (or create a new one as copy), which would respect the changes for the AutoFit projection as well, though perhaps I need to think in a completely different way ...

    Anyway, if this pushes it too far for this thread and makes it too technical then just let me know, but I'd appreciate any hint or tip :)

    No such thing. It tickles me pink when customers are interested in the tech. ;)


    I'm thinking the best way to do that is to save out the morph without resaving the dress, then copy it into the template folder in data/daz 3d/genesis/base/tools/projection templates (there's another projection templates folder, but the one in tools is where morphs should do). That should add the morph to both the loaded dress and the template and autofit options.


    I can't remember if I had to text-edit a morph to have different paths when I copied it between folders, though. If it doesn't show up in things that are autofitted that's probably the issue.

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828
    edited December 1969


    ...

    I'm thinking the best way to do that is to save out the morph without resaving the dress, then copy it into the template folder in data/daz 3d/genesis/base/tools/projection templates (there's another projection templates folder, but the one in tools is where morphs should do). That should add the morph to both the loaded dress and the template and autofit options.


    I can't remember if I had to text-edit a morph to have different paths when I copied it between folders, though. If it doesn't show up in things that are autofitted that's probably the issue.

    Progress :) A biiiiig thank you for the tip :)

    I still have to tweak a bit, but it already is quite usable. The values are not 1:1 effectively after AutoFit, but that is only a minor inconvenience as that Morph is adjustable - might have happened due to the projection process. Either way I'll have some more fun using and tweaking this :)

    Thank you again :)

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    No problem, I'm glad we found a solution that works for you!

  • LuckBeLuckBe Posts: 89
    edited April 2013

    Quick render I did after converting some shoes- I am very pleased with the results. This is going to make my life so much easier. Sickle, you are amazing, just in case you didn't know that already.

    Shoes are from the M4 Casual set from dark division's advent calendar this past christmas.

    PS. No smoothing modifier in either version. The shoes come apart with smoothing applied, but I don't feel they need it with the SRMS conversion.

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    Post edited by LuckBe on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Quick render I did after converting some shoes- I am very pleased with the results. This is going to make my life so much easier. Sickle, you are amazing, just in case you didn't know that already.

    Shoes are from the M4 Casual set from dark division's advent calendar this past christmas.

    PS. No smoothing modifier in either version. The shoes come apart with smoothing applied, but I don't feel they need it with the SRMS conversion.

    Nobody hates to hear nice things about themselves. ;)


    Sometimes that happens. It depends a lot on what the original maker did with the base geometry. Some of my own old Gen 4 products really aren't suitable for SRMS conversion because they have, say, a geometry break between waistband and pants (which is why I sell carefully retailored conversions of them instead).


    A few of the savvy ones are making more fused geometries to drag in a Genesis conversion audience, but it's always best to bargain shop if you know you're going to convert and can't tell about the geometry. I never pay more than Prime Club/Plat Club prices for Gen 4.


    Unless it's Xurge3d. His fantasy items always convert beautifully, so I feel no hesitation about them.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    Glad to hear about Xurge. I wasn't sure about how well his stuff would convert.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,632
    edited April 2013

    ...I have a number of his outfits as well. Nice "believable" futuristic combat armour and clothing compared to what I see elsewhere (no bare bellies with an arrow pointing to them that says "shoot here".)

    Still hedging. Maybe I'll just find something for around 3$ and combine it with the morphs so I can finally get them. Still have the 5$ off 20$ purchase coupon. Have a lot of long skirts, coats, and footwear for Gen4 I'd like to use.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • LuckBeLuckBe Posts: 89
    edited April 2013

    A quick note- I've had much better luck with converting floor-length dresses by fitting them directly to the dress base instead of to genesis using the dress projection template, similar to the directions for fitting shoes. Fitting to genesis results in crumpling at the hem (I suspect because of the feet- this happens with or without SRMS and is one of the things I was hoping SRMS would fix), but fitting to the dress base and then to genesis does not. The tradeoff is that fitting to the dress base means the breast bridging is also subtracted from the shape, but with a small amount of smoothing the little bit it clips into the chest on flat-chested shapes disappears.

    Post edited by LuckBe on
  • LuckBeLuckBe Posts: 89
    edited April 2013

    A picture to demonstrate what I mean. The fitted to genesis version is using the transfer utility with the SRMS dress projection template, as per the instructions. The fitted to the dress template version is done like the instructions for the shoes, minus adding the FBMS. I am really having a lot of fun experimenting with this. :D

    Edit: Dress is by Jan19, from her Cortigiana set on sharecg. The underdress is all one piece, so it seemed a good candidate for testing.

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    Post edited by LuckBe on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,408
    edited April 2013

    A quick note- I've had much better luck with converting floor-length dresses by fitting them directly to the dress base instead of to genesis using the dress projection template, similar to the directions for fitting shoes. Fitting to genesis results in crumpling at the hem (I suspect because of the feet- this happens with or without SRMS and is one of the things I was hoping SRMS would fix), but fitting to the dress base and then to genesis does not. The tradeoff is that fitting to the dress base means the breast bridging is also subtracted from the shape, but with a small amount of smoothing the little bit it clips into the chest on flat-chested shapes disappears.

    ladychance, this is a fantastic tip! I just tried it with the floor length V4 Malvada skirt, with which I had poor results using the regular SRMS technique (lace at bottom was terribly distorted). Your SRMS shoe-like technique worked great! I'll update this post with a picture when my render finishes. Keep those innovative tips coming! Thanks.

    Edit: Image added. Top was converted with autofit because I didn't want SRMS bridging in this design. Skirt was converted with SRMS using ladychance's great tip. Model is V5 body with a few other dials on the face and head. Skin is Tamesis. Shoes are from Silky Sexy with gold supersuit shader. Hair is Orion.

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    Post edited by barbult on
  • LuckBeLuckBe Posts: 89
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:

    ladychance, this is a fantastic tip! I just tried it with the floor length V4 Malvada skirt, with which I had poor results using the regular SRMS technique (lace at bottom was terribly distorted). Your SRMS shoe-like technique worked great! I'll update this post with a picture when my render finishes. Keep those innovative tips coming! Thanks.

    Really glad this was useful to you! :D

    Here's a render of my own, of the full Cortigiana by Jan19 outfit with some of Chohole's textures, on V5 with the Colleen textures for V4 by stacy_19201325 at shareCG.

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Very nice! It's cool that you found a new method, too!

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,408
    edited December 1969

    Look! Cheyenne on Genesis and the bottom fringe is nice and orderly, not distorted, thanks to ladychance's technique.:-)

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  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,405
    edited December 1969

    Just saw this.. and insta-buy. I guess I need to get off my butt and upgrade to 4.5 now.

  • islandgurl31islandgurl31 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yep I also grabbed it :-). Been looking at this since it came out and saw all the pretty pictures and conversions. Told myself to get off my butt and just get it already instead of sitting here drooling and being envious of everyone using this amazing product...lol! Thank you SickleYield and take care :-).

  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    H, just got your rigging product and love it but have a couple of questions.

    1) Does the autofit only work with DAZ Generation 4? Which if I understand correctly is only for V4 and M4.

    2) While my dress is much better on the movement, it still doesn't follow the lower legs. What can I do to get this long dress to work? I posted an example image.

    Thanks
    Kimberly

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  • WilmapWilmap Posts: 2,903
    edited December 1969

    You need movement handles for the the lower skirt.

  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    wilmap said:
    You need movement handles for the the lower skirt.

    Is that chapter two in the manual Chapter 2: Adding Optional JCMs to a Dress?

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited April 2013

    KimberSue said:
    wilmap said:
    You need movement handles for the the lower skirt.

    Is that chapter two in the manual Chapter 2: Adding Optional JCMs to a Dress?

    No, the movement handles were added automatically, you just also have to use them manually. This is normal and expected. You select the UpperHandle or LowerHandle in the Scene Tab to move it. Having the skirt move automatically with the legs is a poor choice for versatility of an item and takes a lot of functionality out of the user's hands (yes, there are differing opinions on that, but I always err on the side of user control).


    The Optional JCMs are for when you bend the skirt a lot, say for sitting, and it looks very distorted and not like a normal dress would move. JCMs help to smooth that out.


    Autofit is used to fit Gen 4 clothes to Genesis. It is a faster but not as effective method compared to converting through Transfer Utility (as in the manual). Autofit also does not add the smoothing and collision modifiers.


    I still think it's awesome that you're rigging a house dress, by the way.


    Also: Fisty and islandgurl, welcome to the party! 4.5 Pro is superior to 4.0 in a number of ways, not the least being the big improvements in the way smoothing and collision work (making meshes with more small details much more possible). After the one long evening I spent running the dup ids script over all the older stuff in my library, I've never looked back.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • KimberSueKimberSue Posts: 353
    edited December 1969

    KimberSue said:
    wilmap said:
    You need movement handles for the the lower skirt.

    Is that chapter two in the manual Chapter 2: Adding Optional JCMs to a Dress?

    No, the movement handles were added automatically, you just also have to use them manually. This is normal and expected. You select the UpperHandle or LowerHandle in the Scene Tab to move it. Having the skirt move automatically with the legs is a poor choice for versatility of an item and takes a lot of functionality out of the user's hands (yes, there are differing opinions on that, but I always err on the side of user control).


    The Optional JCMs are for when you bend the skirt a lot, say for sitting, and it looks very distorted and not like a normal dress would move. JCMs help to smooth that out.


    Autofit is used to fit Gen 4 clothes to Genesis. It is a faster but not as effective method compared to converting through Transfer Utility (as in the manual). Autofit also does not add the smoothing and collision modifiers.


    I still think it's awesome that you're rigging a house dress, by the way.


    Also: Fisty and islandgurl, welcome to the party! 4.5 Pro is superior to 4.0 in a number of ways, not the least being the big improvements in the way smoothing and collision work (making meshes with more small details much more possible). After the one long evening I spent running the dup ids script over all the older stuff in my library, I've never looked back.


    I'd like to make some nice air light summer house dresses and night gowns. Thanks for the help.

    One more question. Usually I use the Gen figure like a woman, julie, kimberly. etc in marvelous designer then when I move the obj file into daz and use the transfer unit, I pick current instead of default under genesis and reverse morphs to make the clothing fit correctly. It it possible to model to gen people like Kimberly shape and still use your dress templates? I've been trying to do that but the dress always ends up partially behind the Gen with Kimberly shape.

    Kimberly

    Thanks

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,405
    edited December 1969

    SY, do you know of any issues with 4.5 reading 4.0 scene files? I have ongoing projects that I really don't want to have to remake 'cause I pretty much have to rerender the same thing over and over with just different textures and they all have to match. Been working off the same basic scene since last spring.

  • edited December 1969

    Two quick questions, one, does this work directly in Poser or does everything still have to be converted via DS and exported to work in Poser?

    Also does anyone know by chance how long the sale is? I've been waiting for it to go back on sale, but I don't get paid until the 1st of May.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Fisty: I've never gotten a 4.0 scene file to work with 4.5. I think it can be done, but I don't know how.


    Scullygirl: The SRMS depends on DAZ Studio 4.5's template rigging system through the Transfer Utility. As such, there's no way to make it compatible with Poser.

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