Old Dog New Tricks

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  • Worlds_EdgeWorlds_Edge Posts: 1,720

    Thank you for the video.  I'm going to watch it tomorrow and can't wait to learn your process.

    Photoshop cc has a camera raw filter - in answer to your earlier question to Algovincian.

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142
    edited December 2017

    Thank you for the video.  I'm going to watch it tomorrow and can't wait to learn your process.

    Photoshop cc has a camera raw filter - in answer to your earlier question to Algovincian.

    I hope you learn something from it, I still feel like a baby when it comes to working with Daz. lol

    CS 5 has camera raw, but you can't do things like have a jpg open in photoshop then tell it to open in camera raw and start editing your jpg in camera raw. (technically there's a 3rd party script that lets you do this, but I haven't reinstalled it since the big crash) I know from watching videos that this can be done in CC. So I was wondering if you could have your 32 bit canvas open from daz in CC and then tell it to edit that canvas in camera raw, without converting it to 16 or 8 bit 1st. To me a 32 bit beauty canvas seems just like a raw file, and camera raw has the best tools for handling all that information. 

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  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,955
    edited December 2017

    @algovincian thank you so much for the action! I can't wait to play around with it. My photography colleagues and I would always share actions so I am really familiar with them. They help to cut work flow time WAY down! Also I do sometimes work in 16 bit and only have a few filters that won't accept a 16 bit image, I didn't know that about the banding. I use a lot of photography with my pieces so I transfer to 8 bit so I'm not getting the "this image is in a different mode" warning. If I'm working on a full 3D piece I'll have to remember to stay in 16 bit. 

     

    Just finished watching your video . . . not sure what you were nervous about - you did a great job explaining everything! I've never actually used the nodes before, so it was useful to see somebody actually go through it. Thanks for taking the time and posting it. 

    - Greg

    LOL so funny! When I 1st started doing canvases the information I was linked to told me to use nodes, so I just always have. If I forget something in my node then the beauty canvas renders it as transparent. Now are you telling me that I didn't even need a node for the beauty canvas??? I have never even tried to render without one. lol Like I said I couldn't find a lot of information on the subject and some of what I could find was very high in tech speak and that is just way over my head. I did learn that you can not render multiple beauty canvases at the same time with different nodes/items assigned to each beauty canvas. That was one of the 1st things I tried to do, so I could have separate items on different layers in PS and only have to do one render. Couldn't get that to work. :) They work fantastic for separating out your lighting though! 

    You're welcome, deathbycanon. The action is basically the equivalent of getting all the materials I need together and spreading them out on a desktop for easy access before actually getting down to work. Having the different exposures available makes it quick/easy to mask in local areas, create bloom that you have complete control over (separate from the render process so you can tweak without re-rendering), etc.

    I love Photoshop actions, and extend them even further by wrapping them in VB scripts that allow for better control over file I/O, the introduction of other applications into the mix at various points, and most importantly, the application of AI for decision making. All of this allows one to think about image processing in a totally new way and on a completely different scale. Couldn't do my NPR work without it.

    As far as the banding goes, it isn't always an issue (depends on what kind of processing your doing). I'm sure your eye would have noticed if it were.

    That is funny about the nodes lol (and sorry - think it was probably me that posted the link . . . doh!). I can see where separating the lighting info would be useful - just haven't felt a real need for it yet. You're video has gotten me thinking about it. I've tried other canvases like the depth, but the fact that it's completely geometry based (ignoring any transmaps) and it looks like a dithered diffusion pattern if DOF is used in the render kind of turned me off to it. 

    Beauty canvases are always on for me, though. I'm certain your video will be particularly useful to those who were a bit intimidated. I've seen many people ask for it in the forums - now there's somewhere they can be pointed to!

    - Greg

    ETA: Should have mentioned that the reason I use history states instead of simply using layers is that I use these actions on large (32K) panoramas and it's more efficient given the way Photoshop manages memory. 

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,426

    Thank you so much!  Will check it out as soon as I have a spare moment.

  • @algovinician I understood about half that, once you start talking VB scripts and file i/o you've lost me! lol 

    I ran your action, very cool and I like the history states with the different exposures. I haven't really worked with history states that much, not in the way your talking. I always used it as a place to go back to if I messed up beyond what I could go back to in my history tab.  One odd thing, not on your action, just CS2 in general, it opened my canvas with a black background instead of with it's transparent background. I'm going to have to look into that and see if there's a work around. I'll probably also manually try and repeat your action so I have a better understanding of what it's doing and not just clicking a button. :) 

    Shibashake has a great tutorial on how he(?) combines light canvases, it might be a little like how your using your history states, painting light back into areas and such... Here's the link https://thinkdrawart.com/how-i-combine-daz-studio-lights-in-photoshop I actually should give it another work though myself, now that I have a better grasp on what I'm doing. My 1st time though it I was still using photomatrix pro to open and convert my canvases. lol 

  • Thank you so much!  Will check it out as soon as I have a spare moment.

    hopefully you lean something from it, I already have. lol That you don't actually need to use nodes for your beauty canvas. :) It at least lets you know how to change those darn files into something you can see and use, I was so lost at 1st with what to do with the canvas once I had it in photoshop.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,955

    @algovinician I understood about half that, once you start talking VB scripts and file i/o you've lost me! lol 

    Sorry about that! I fully realize that I'm a horrible teacher lol. Me thinks you don't give yourself enough credit, though. You obviously understand a great deal, and unlike me, did a great job conveying a complex topic to others in your video.

    I ran your action, very cool and I like the history states with the different exposures. I haven't really worked with history states that much, not in the way your talking.

    Yeah - I would have rather just used layers, but some of the files I run these actions on are 32,768 x 16,384 pixels. At 16-bits, the memory requirements start to get prohibitive quickly. Also, the history states allow me to have access to different bit depths from the same one open file (which is needed for subsequent processing). It's unconventional for sure, but it works for me.

    Please forgive me if I've already asked you this (my memory is garbage), but have you ever used your photography gear and experience to create HDRI?

    One odd thing, not on your action, just CS2 in general, it opened my canvas with a black background instead of with it's transparent background. I'm going to have to look into that and see if there's a work around. I'll probably also manually try and repeat your action so I have a better understanding of what it's doing and not just clicking a button. :) 

    CS2 definitely has some oddities about the way it handles 32-bit files. Your idea to try and get the script (or something similar) working in a newer version is a good one. Having followed along with your thread and seen all the fantastic postwork you've done, it seems to me that you'd come up with some creative ways to use all of those exposures.

    Another thing I failed to mention is that I'm constantly over-writing the "current" history state. Click on one of the exposure states, ctrl-c, click on the "current" history state, then ctrl-v (now you've got layers). After doing your processing with the new layer, you've got to update the "current" history state before you can go fetch another exposure to work with.

    An annoying workflow to be sure, but necessary because of the memory issues I mentioned earlier. 

    Shibashake has a great tutorial on how he(?) combines light canvases, it might be a little like how your using your history states, painting light back into areas and such... Here's the link https://thinkdrawart.com/how-i-combine-daz-studio-lights-in-photoshop I actually should give it another work though myself, now that I have a better grasp on what I'm doing. My 1st time though it I was still using photomatrix pro to open and convert my canvases. lol 

    Thanks for the link - I'll definitely check it out!

    - Greg

  • @algovincian I don't think your a horrible teacher at all, I have learned a lot from you! I think your just one of those rare birds that are super advanced in both "left" brain and "right" brain fields and I personally have trouble switching from creative mode to logic mode. I know how to use the tools I am given but you not only know how to use them but you probably also know the computer science behind how they work. lol I have learned a lot just from googling the things you say that I don't understand! lol 

    PS memory. lol Recently a friend of my daughters started using photoshop he had several hours in and then it crashed and he had not saved. I told him "it's not one of your new age video games, this is old school, you have to save before you go into the dungeon or you loose all your gear, no auto save here." He messaged me back and said "yea, I thought it auto saved." lol luckily for me I'm an old school gamer and usually remember to save after any major changes and before I start running filters. :) 

    I have done HDR but not HDRI's, I would have to do it by hand then stitch the images together in photoshop, although I think there are programs that do that  can take that part over now. I also think the newer cameras handle panoramas like that better now also, mine is the original 5D. 

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,955

    "it's not one of your new age video games, this is old school, you have to save before you go into the dungeon or you loose all your gear, no auto save here." 

    Save early and often, baby! Some of my fondest gaming memories involve corpse runs in the depths of dungeons. When you died, your body stayed right where you fell until somebody else went in and dragged your ass out of there! Of course the boss that wasted you was still there camping your corpse lol

    - Greg

  • @deathbycanon  I love the image with the house in the tree and the one with the tipped over chair. Those are both awesome!  I'm definitely checking out your video. While I can do canvases, I still find them troublesome. 

    @Algovincian I wouldn't say you are a horrible teacher either. I've definitely learned a lot from you. There are also things I would never have tried and found I loved if it weren't for you. 

  • Thanks KM, I'm still learning them myself but hopefully it helps someone. 

    Greg, I used to play an RP based MUD, you know, back before online multi player games had graphics lol, there if you died you would wake up naked in the inn. As a Kender I had mastered the art of sneak, hide, and steal so I wasn't usually caught out in public in the buff, but it could be quite embarrassing in the early stages of the game, especially if an IM decided to make a joke of you and yell at you to put some clothes on. :) 

  • kloolessklooless Posts: 115

    "it's not one of your new age video games, this is old school, you have to save before you go into the dungeon or you loose all your gear, no auto save here." 

    Save early and often, baby! Some of my fondest gaming memories involve corpse runs in the depths of dungeons. When you died, your body stayed right where you fell until somebody else went in and dragged your ass out of there! Of course the boss that wasted you was still there camping your corpse lol

    - Greg

    Ahhh, memories of corpse runs when the entire raid was wiped, then trying to figure out how to sneak back in and grab your corpse without getting wiped again. There were times when we had 3 or 4 corpses laying around.  LOL

  • kenmokenmo Posts: 601

    Stopped by your youtube channel a couple of days ago. I enjoyed the tutorials I watched. Very well articulated and great tips, especially the one on digital canvases in Daz Studio. Never knew these existed...

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,955

    Thanks KM, I'm still learning them myself but hopefully it helps someone. 

    Greg, I used to play an RP based MUD, you know, back before online multi player games had graphics lol, there if you died you would wake up naked in the inn. As a Kender I had mastered the art of sneak, hide, and steal so I wasn't usually caught out in public in the buff, but it could be quite embarrassing in the early stages of the game, especially if an IM decided to make a joke of you and yell at you to put some clothes on. :) 

    Oh I remember . . . is waking up naked in a tavern really so bad, though? lol

    And for the record, you could hardly call those graphics in EQ1! Sometimes I do wonder whether it wasn't a case of less is more, though. The graphics in today's games are awesome, but I had way more fun way back when.

    - Greg

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142
    edited January 2018

    Sorry I have been away for a while. I need to save some money, so I'm avoiding this place. lol My backup system isn't even usable for photoshop after the last windows 10 update stopped recognizing ,most the ram and the graphics card. It's too old and no longer supported. So the update to my current system needs to be pushed up, and the old parts will be used to build a backup/photoshop system. But it's expensive, and all your fantastic art of pieces I didn't know I needed is bad for my bank account. lol 

    Anyway I thought some of you might enjoy the before and after to this piece. I entered it into the rendo 2d holiday contest. It's a mix of photography, 3d, brush work and overlays/ textures. The owl was too 3D to me, so I took parts from stock 3D snowy owl photos and combined them over the 3D image. The face and belly is from photos, but the rest of it is the 3D base. 

     

     

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  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142
    edited January 2018

    Also before I forget, a shout out to  @Joepingleton  for answering my questions on resizing, thanks Joe!  

    Post edited by deathbycanon on
  • That's lovely! I like the unique take on Santa's ride. :)

  • That's a lovely image! Thanks for sharing some of the making-of.

    And congratulations on placing 3rd in two of the Rendo contests : 3D and 2D! That's amazing!

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142
    edited January 2018

    Thanks KM, my friend did a cross stich from a pattern of Santa sitting on a snowy owl that was perched on a branch and the idea always stuck with me. 

    Thanks xmasrose, it was a fun and challenging contest. 

    Here was my 3D entry for those that are interested. The postwork was minimal (for me lol) and I actually rendered it out as a full image as opposed to my usual everything on separate layers. I used light canvases to adjust the amount of highlight and shadow, this shows the most through the face. The before is the png image. 

     

    I was going for "the Night Before Christmas" Santa. Sparkling eyes, rosy cheeks, and his pipe smoke circling his head like a wreath. :) 

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  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 7,789
    edited January 2018

    Santa looks very nice! I love the smoke. :)

     

    Edit: Oops! Forgot to say congratulations!

    Post edited by Knittingmommy on
  • I love both of your Santa entries! Although, my favorite is your composite of the snowy owl and Santa. And congratulations too!

    Trish

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,426

    Congrats!  I really like both images and love the idea of Santa riding the snow owl.

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142
    edited January 2018

    Thanks for the congrats everyone. It was a fun contest. 

    For anyone interested in doing 3D composites in photoshop I'm starting a video series on the piece I'm currently working on. The 1st video is done and is uploading now, but it is uploading soooo slowly it might be a while/days before it's live. 

    I start by talking about how I prepare the 3D elements that will go into the composite, then move the 1st guy into photoshop and give him a make over. He's the 1st of three characters that will be in the finished piece.

    Here's the before and after, I'll link to the video when it's uploaded. 

     

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  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142

    Video link if anyone is interested. https://youtu.be/Sy_X-3ZkWBk

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 1,955
    edited January 2018

    Video link if anyone is interested. https://youtu.be/Sy_X-3ZkWBk

    Haven't watched the video yet, but you're composite on this first guy looks like a perfect match. That relatively bright belt had to go as it probably didn't help when skulking around in the shadows lol. Thanks for giving me something to watch during lunch tomorrow . . .

    - Greg

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  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142
    edited January 2018

    2nd character video being uploaded now. I covered adding wrinkles to a dress and a quick and dirty hair adding technique. I'll add the link when it's done uploading. 

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  • Very cool- love the Santa, extremely well done!  Thanks for the link, I'll definitely be checking that out.

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142

    Video link if anyone is interested. https://youtu.be/Sy_X-3ZkWBk

    Haven't watched the video yet, but you're composite on this first guy looks like a perfect match. That relatively bright belt had to go as it probably didn't help when skulking around in the shadows lol. Thanks for giving me something to watch during lunch tomorrow . . .

    - Greg

    Thanks Greg, he's going to be part of a much larger project. There's not huge changes yet, but a lot of small techniques that I hope people will find useful in their own post work. 

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142

    Very cool- love the Santa, extremely well done!  Thanks for the link, I'll definitely be checking that out.

    Thanks Darwin! 

  • deathbycanondeathbycanon Posts: 1,142

    Part two of the composite video, character two gets some dress wrinkles and extra hair https://youtu.be/Jm_agPbf-vs

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