Multiple character scenes
DMackey
Posts: 46
in The Commons
I want to create a scene that will have a half dozen or more characters in it. I'm assuming that it will have to be done in layers by using Gimp.
Does anyone know of a tutorial or something that will help point me in the right direction.
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So you want to render 6 characters in one scene? Have you tried the render with the characters all in the scene? Or is that too hard on your computer?
If it's too hard on your computer to render the figures, you could perhaps set up the scene with the characters in it and set up the camera where you want it, then hide the figures and render just the background, then hide the background and unhide and render the figures one or two at a time (or however many your computer can handle). Then you should be able to add them together in an image editing program. As long as you don't move the camera or change the lighting or the settings between renders they all should fit together without any issues. :)
Just remember that you don't hide the floor your figures are standing on - or you don't get shadows on the floor ...
If the floor is flat, then you can sort of get away with it, since a shadow will be cast on the default ground, and assuming the character layer is placed above the background, then the shadow would darken the background in the right place. Having said that, shadows will vary depending on the type of ground you have, and so it is really better to have the floor in all renders, unless it needs a large amount of memory for some reason.
A tip I learned from one of the oldtimers was that if you absolutely could not load and pose all the relevant characters in one go without crashing the program, what you could do was break it down into manageable components using primitives as dummies to mark where all the components went. Say that you were going to show someone proposing to their significant other in a park with other people looking on. The couple are probably the most important element, so you would set them up first and pose them appropriately, then bring in whatever you were using for a park set, move the set around, maybe adjust the couple's poses, create a camera at a good spot, light it, do test renders to see if it looks good.
Then save that version of the scene with whatever name you like. Create two large primitives (I mostly use cylinders for this) and position and scale them until they occupy the same same that the couple does. Delete the couple and their clothes, and save this new scene as scenename_ref (sceneame being whatever you used for the first version of the scene). Then use scenename_ref as a basis for setting up different combinations of supporting characters and saving them out: the rejected rival watching gloomily as the proposal is accepted, the small children giggling and pointing, the lovey-dovey retired couple watching sympathetically, the dog chasing a squirrel through the foreground of the scene, whatever you want. Do NOT, at any point in this process, move the camera or the lights-I've ruined at least one image by forgetting to do this.
Hide anything scenic that isn't necessary for calculating where the shadows fall. Each time you start a new component scene, lay down a primitive or two to mark the position of the characters you just set up in the previous component scene, delete the characters from the previous component scene, and rename and save the new component so you can work on it safely. Name the scenes scenename_rival, scenename_children, etc. If you're using Iray, there seems to be some way to keep the HDRI images using in lighting from showing up as a sky dome/background, but I haven't figure that part out yet.
Once everything is set up, render out the different component scenes, starting with the couple and preferably including the complete background. (Hide or delete the reference primitives before you render. If using Iray, do NOT mess with the tone-mapping settings on any but the first image. Whatever you do there, has to be the same for the rest of the renders). Take the "base" render (whichever one has the full background) into GIMP, import the other renders as layers. Hide most of the layers, leave the base one alone, set whichever one you are working on to screen (so you can see the base layer underneath) select the part of that layer you want to use, invert selection, delete the rest.
Set that layer to normal mode, move to second-bottom (right above the base) and repeat for the next one. If there are places where characters on different layers have overlapping shadows, you may find it necessary to do some creative erasing. Once everyone's composited in, you can do any additional postwork you like. (Or, you can do it on a layer by layer basis as you composit the image, if you find things easier to manage that way.)
It might not necessarily have to be done in layers. Usually the problem is lighting the scene depending on how many different planes each set of characters are in. The product, I think it's called "The decimator" is extremely useful for lessening the amount of unnecessary polygons in a scene which will also shorten your render time.
I suggest doing your scene and just doing a render to see what you get, and then see where the problems are going to occur. You might also build your scene up in stages, start with the main target of focus; nail that, and then add the next component/characters.
I'm also starting to work on scenes with more characters, so I'm figuring this one out as well. Here's the scene I'm currently working on. This one was done in three layers, which I didn't like the result of, so I'm going to go back and try using Ghost lights to see if I can light the whole scene and render it out completely.
Another issue is what characters you are using. And, to some extent, what version of the program. Related to that, another question is; just how old are those old-timers you are talking to?
I wandered into this hobby in 2009, and the current version of Studio was 3. I don't think Studio 4 came out until 2011. Studio 3 was 32-bit on a Mac, which is enough to cripple any program. Studio 4 could run in 64-bit on both major platforms, which made a *big* difference.
Another big difference is that the whole Genesis series has only a fraction of the polys of the gen4 characters. I never managed to get more than 5 gen4 characters into a scene and render it. Usually I had to drop down to 4, and depending on the backgrounds, sometimes 3. In Studio 4 I've routinely managed to get 12 to 16 Genesis figures into a scene and render it. Sometimes, like on the one with 16 figures, I've needed to build the background as a separate file and composite the final image, but the foreground with the characters was doable. [http://www.redhen-publications.com/501final.html# There are 12 Genesis figures in this one. #5 has the 16 figures (or maybe it was 18, but I don't think so. At least three of the ones in the fandom area have about 15, although ghosts are postwork.]
Which does not mean that the scene is necessarily maneuverable. As a scene gets poly-heavy it gets harder and harder to adjust or manipulate anything (including the camera). But it will still render without a lot of hassle.
years ago there was a fellow that posted renders with litteraly hundreds of figures, maybe even over 1,000. He had a thread on it, it took a massive ammount of rendering and effort with postwork to put it all together but it proved you could do gigantic renders with enough time and dedication. Good luck!
Thank you one and all for your inputs.
I'm working on creating a graphic novel and several of the pannels will have multiple characters in it.
Oh, I forgot. As to rendering, transmaps will slow it to a crawl.
There are several methods to go about it. If you are rendering in 3Delight, you can do very large scenes rendered at once but you will want to break it all down into seperate scenes first that you can work on one at a time as Odaa mentioned. If you are rendering in Iray, you are going to have to do it differently by rendering in layers.
For the first method, which I used here - http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/48862/ - I would like to share a few tips from what I did. I personally set up one character as the central focus and used her to set up my camera and lighting. After that was done, the character, outfit and hair was saved out as a seperate scene. The set was also saved as a scene with the lights and camera. I then made a seperate scene with the same set, camera and lights but with no textures. This alternate set was used to set up the rest of the characters. For each additional character(s) that were setup (and saved as a stand alone scene) I would bring in one of the previous ones, remove all the clothes and hair and all textures and just leave them posed in place as a reference. Once each character was set up, I merged them all together to see how they looked. I did make a few changes and also saved them all as a single scene. Depending on your hardware, saving them all as a scene can take a few min or a lot more.
For the second method, rendering in layers and compositing in post, - http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/293986 - I will admit this was simplified compared to what others have done but its easy to digest. The scene was split in two. The first scene was just the room and lighting, which I must credit Jack Tomlin for setting up. I used his Iray lighting that came with the addon to the Library. It fits pefectly. The only light I added was a large primative plane in front to illuminate the girls like a flash on a camera. The second scene was the girls, the lighting (and lamps) plus the table and chairs. Because their shadows are only noticable on the capet and table, I had to keep those in their scene. Again, simple but easy to mentally chew on.
ALso, if you are rendering in Iray, any prop that is not visable to the camera, is not seen in reflections or is not responsable for adding shadow or lights to the scene should be removed as textures take up more VRAM then a mesh does.