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Thank you. I don't come here, or comment to start arguments. I worked around the U.S. education system for over 10 years. It was there I learned "my" definition. In its last incarnation, we had to hyphenate nearly any student classified as Latino (Latino-Black, Latino-White, etc.). I have also been inconvenienced for not cleanly fitting into an ethnic classification ("Funny, you don't LOOK Irish"; said the TSA agent at the airport). Maybe we need a "ethnic-fluid" classification.
George is grossly fat...I think that was the point. But, at the same time he is handsome. It's funny how after looking at all the perfect models, you really get to appreciate the characters. He seems like one of the most "real" characters I've seen on Daz.
As to Latinas - Aren't Chandra and Sapphire both Latina? That said, I'm assuming that what is meant by "obviously latino" means Mestizo looking background and or Puerto Rican / Carribbean. I am Hispanic and don't really look like either of those two groups. I get guessed at being Italian or Greek most of the time. Go figure. :)
Personally, I would like some more variety of Latin type characters. But, I'm pretty happy with the overall blended backgrounds of most Daz figures. If anything, I'd say it would be nice to have more models like George that have obvious character - pretty or ugly as the case may be.
For the exact same reason we need multiple Modeling Apps
or image editing&Paint programs
because of the unlimited amount of variety in a humans appearance no one or two "morph sets" or "Character presets" are going cover all of the variations hence so many in the marketplace
And those who choose to depend on PA's to produce every ethnic or body type are Limited to whatever the PA's decide is worth risking for a $$Commercial product
I personally consider that a creative LIMITATION "hobbyist or not
I Prefer the CONVENIENCE. of using the tools within daz studio( Morph sliders) to get the exact looks I prefer.
For example I could Choose to scour the stores and nag the PA's for not creating this specific Mid 50's Female preset "Character" who could pass for Italian,Mizrahi Jewish or Arab,
like this one I created just yesteday with Daz studio morph sliders
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8QllmZzJmc0FBLW8/view
...or I could do it myself and enjoy the convenience of moving forward
with exactly what I want for the animated shot
and Not be frustrated because a well meaning talented PA Failed to imagine what I had invisioned in my head
Well there is the matter of differing levels of basic talent.
But I am not aware of any special existing skill sets required to move
a Daz studio morph slider labeled "nose big" or "Belly out".
and make a decison based on the visual result as to wether you are altering the figures appearence in a manner that acheives your creative objective.
Check out Javeria (Sabby) at Renderosity, new yesterday!
I have to say, everybody who wants to see more ethnicities represented should make sure they buy Sickleyield's People of Earth series, which is a good way to handle the fact that despite Westerners calling them all 'Asian', Koreans look nothing like, say, the Vietnamese.
I understand this point of view as well. I just like to encourage people to mix and match with the genesis figures since its one of my personal favorite feature of the figures. And I always get new characters from time to time so i can add them to the gene pool and create more diversity.
THIRD!!!!
I've been trying to learn modeling since there such a derth of latino characters - it isn't going well
Hmm.
Skinblender uses Geoshells, which adds geometry to a scene... not to mention also adding additional texture maps, which makes the scene heavier. So that's another reason to hope for more "mid to dark tan" skins on the market. Especially for guys (I realize that they don't sell as well, but Kimo gives me hope). I have no problem rolling my own characters with morphs, but skins ... I'm not particularly good at painting skins.
I concur, it's an excellent bit of software for Daz, and at this stage I would say an indepensible tool.
Don't give up, if you become good at modeling, you could have a lucrative market pretty much all to yourself.
The idea that it's easy to use all the morphs and dials to get a Latino character is not as easy as some people make it out to be. It's the same for pre-teens and even middle age characters. I've seen the attempts and most simply aren't there yet (which is also the reason you don't see a lot of them in renders regardless of all the add ons and morph software out there). It's damn hard, which is why wanting the conveniece of a base character to start with is not something you can shrug off as people simply being lazy. It's not a beginner Daz skill. Getting a character of that quality is probably a lower intermediate skill at best.
Yeah, and if I flap my arms hard enough maybe I'll just fly away.
Exactly this! Sickleyield's People of Earth is wonderful, and dreamfarmer is exactly right - she does understand the difference between the basic face structure of a Korean vs Vietnamese. And there is such a range in Latin America, from purely European to various (and very different) Native peoples and the various mixtures of native, European, African and Asian. As you say, its a huge, untapped potential market. While it might not be that popular with the standard US American audience, I can't believe that is the only market served.
So Sickleyield - I've got character money with your name on it.
"Yeah, and if I flap my arms hard enough maybe I'll just fly away."
You'll never know for sure until you try, Joe.
(as the drive-by poster disappears quickly into the shadows before being drawn into a thread that's going nowhere, fast)
I do what feels right for the character.
I would like to see more mixed race mid-toned figures in the store.
Oh, its not for lack of trying. To model, not flap my arms and fly away - well, ok, sometimes. When no one is watching. And sometimes when they are...
No one can ask more than that.
the new skinbuilder for g3 from zevo will should be out soon so that should help fill some gaps
+1
I'm thinking it's a cultural (as in the internet and folks predeliction for convenience, and not related to any race,ethnicity or anything i've missed) thing; you suggest folks stop doing one click, and progress to three or four. :)
Genetics is a wonderful and mysterious thing. A few years ago my sister had the DNA test done to 'help find your ancestors' and it came back that we (my siblings and I) are about 56% British Isles/Ireland, 41% Eastern European (mostly Russia) and that final 3% Italian, Balkans and Native American. Now out of that mix, we have a wide variety of skin types and tones, hair colors and types. My wife is a mix of German, Scottish, Balkan and Native American ancestry.
We have a pale skinned, freckled, red-headed daughter...who unlike 90+% of the rest of those with similar skin/hair, when exposed to sunlight develops a nice tan, as opposed to 'boiled lobster'.
There can be no 'tokens' when everyone (unless you are a clone or identical twin) is pretty much unique...or everyone is a token.
Convenience is nice...but isn't part of being an artist expressing your own view/ideas/vision? Why rely on someone else's?
It's nice to see all the cheerleading for creativity and originality from the group that is fairly well represented in the store and already has the maximum amount of convience already afforded to them. Just saying.
I. Need. That. So. Much.
(hits "add to cart" like the fist of an angry god)
One challenge I find with making those of african American ancestry is the lack of variety in men's hair. There just aren't enough short styles or styles that look good to me and aren't dreadlocks or large afros. I hope Darius comes with some shorter hair options
Hair is an entirely different matter...there's just not enough good men's hair, period. Yeah, there's some...but not much 'everyday' or 'working man' types.
Token-ism is simply an effort to ADD diversity regardless of whether or not it is appropriate or necessary.
If I'm building a scene, and there is no reason to add person of a specific ethnicity/race/etc., then adding one in JUST to have one in the scene....then I've added a token 'blank'.
If the scene takes place in the Rural USA, or parts of Russia, or parts of the UK....the percentage of people who might actually be of that ethnicity/race/etc. might be VERY small. It's simple statistics.
To wit: In the USA, Blacks make up roughly 13% of the population. That is much higher in urban areas, and much smaller in rural areas (some rural areas are still exclusively caucasians, but simply due to no blacks moving there.) If my scene is set in Bumflark, Oklahoma (fictional, I hope!) the likelyhood of non-caucasians is very small. However, in Jubleflotchy, Mexico, I would expect a fairly large hispanic-looking population, and a relatively small caucasian percentage. Adding in either is liable to look 'off' or 'forced' if the scene doesn't specifically REQUIRE it.
There are exceptions, naturally. And there isn't anything WRONG with it. But making a scene with a bunch of Korean farmers in the cornfields of Kansas is going to create a LOT of cognitive dissonance in anyone familiar with the ethnic makeup of the area.....Kind of like having Eskimos in Australia......
What's even harder is to avoid the stereotypes that tend to go with tokenism. Of course, stereotypes exist for a REASON. But that doesn't make them neccessary. Time-period, location, culture and more all play into what is appropriate, and what would be unusual. But it all comes down to what makes the scene look good, while still conveying what you want to convey.....and sometimes that does REQUIRE tokenism. Irony, Sarcasm and Parody still have their places! (e.g., Mel Brooks "Blazing Saddles")
Take the TV Show Friends.
Where the frak were all the non-white people?
In NEW YORK CITY?
I did a little Nielsen research: "Though "Friends" has struck a major sitcom chord with most of America's television viewers, a smash hit No. 3 in this year's Nielsen ratings survey, the show barely registers a pulse with African-American channel surfers. In fact, you'll find "Friends" in cellar-dweller territory at No. 99 in black TV households."
Still more realistic than their freakin appartment space. good lord
Laughing so hard
And something else that hasn't been mentioned at all...
Why constrain one's self to reality?
You want a bunch of Korean farmers in Kansas, as long as you can come with a why (like this isn't the 'real' Kansas or the current timeline or whatever) then, as the creator of the render, there is no reason it can't be done.
It boils down to what YOU are envisioning...and the only person you have to satisfy looks back at you when you are brushing your teeth.
My point is that even within a 'well represented' group, there is way more variation than what could EVER be put in the store...it's just too much. Learning how to take a few basics (yes, when those don't exist, it's a real problem) and vary them enough so everyone doesn't look like Jango Fett is a needed skill set.
My folks once were making a trip across the US and happened across a town in the midwest populated entirely by Basque.
Which is... odd.
So hey, things happen.
There's a town here in WV that's named Helvetia. It's not that uncommon for communities like that to have been founded in the 1800s, so it isn't all that strange to find one particular group in an area, especially in the Midwest. Look at the Chinatowns in San Francisco or New York, or Little Italy...or any number of others.