Genesis 4 wishlist!
jeff_someone
Posts: 254
All,
I'm curious what people would like to see new for Genesis 4 figures - if and when they come out. I know everyone has a different set of things they'd like, but below are some of mine:
- Highly realistic face and eye geometry - the current Gen3 figures are pretty dang good, but I strive for super realism in my renders (attached example) and the current Gen3 models simply do not have sufficient detail for various facial feautures, namely the nose and most important the eyes. The lack of highly detailed eye geometry is the primary thing holding back renders that are ultra-realistic. Due to this, I usually need to have my characters don glassess to obscure the unrealistic eye geometry. It's not that the current Gen 3 eyes are bad by any means, but they just need another step up in realism. I know its not all about the geometry (i.e., the maps, lighting, render models also play a big role).
- More realistic expressions - again, Gen 3 is pretty dang good, but smiles and other common expressions generally still look very odd and unrealistic. In my dream world, Gen4 models would have ability to alter the geometry with wrinkles, etc. I suppose this is technically possible now, just the facial geometry and/or normal/displacement maps can't be tied to the expressions (AFAIK).
- Hair, hair, hair - Gen4 would be great if it came with a full suite of Daz-integrated body and facial hair. While there are some great products in the marketplace for this, it would be great to have an integrated hair component vice many separate products. Also, it would be really great if there was compatibility for top-tier hair generation products such as Shave and a Haircut, etc. For me, only OOT's hair technique comes close to the level of realism I prefer, however, they are still transmapped geometry vice true dynamic hair. I've tried LAMH and other 'hair' products that work with Daz, however, they are lightyears behind products available for top 3d platforms and are not suitable at all for realistic head hair.
Those are the big ones for me, but curious what you all would like to see. I know many of you don't even want a new-gen model base and many of you don't give a rats a** about realism.
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Comments
- Animation ready rig with proper rig controls!
- The more realistic the better! Many Genesis 3 Females still look too pretty to be true, the males seem to have gotten much more realistic than the females in my opinion.
- Dedicated Iray skin shader.
- Mimic wrinkle maps! No more botox faces!
- Dynamic clothing! Much more needed than hair I think. Conforming hair keeps getting better and better and looks nicer by the day but the lack of dynamic clothing really shows, especially with things like dresses and so on.
2018 as opposed to 2017 please.
Although it doesn't really matter; i have what I need from G3.
But hair seriesly a better hair system, but don't need G4 for that, but will more likely if it ever happens be a Studio version 4.10 or 5.0.
Agree OOT's hair is the best, although there are some other great ones out there. And if you want dynamics, try VWD - it does take work and practice but worth it.
Accurate bend morphs...No more virtual fake boobs, and more than one Asian/African/Indiginous couple...Oh, and snot-noses plus rug-rats!
Remember that the base shape is designed to wear clothing and has an invisible bra on.
Call me strange, but I like the Gen 2 models way more than the Gen 3. What they should do across the board, however, is make the posing interchangable between generations. Yes, you can put expressions and poses for Gen 2 on Genesis (far easier than you can do the same with Gen 3 for some reason), but the issue is that it leaves orphans behind that you can lose track of. Say you put a faical expression on Genesis that was designed for Gen 2 ...the Genesis facial reset won't necessarily clear it, and you have to use the Gen 2 reset to do so, and it's easy to forget where you got the expression from. Make newer models yes, but please do something to intermesh the posing better
I am pretty happy with G3, except expressions. It seems to be most difficult to get nice and realistic expressions. Although DAZ figures are way best at the moment their expressions are way behind. For my characters I am forced to create new expression shapes using zBrush.
Er... sorry, but I'm not part of that "WE" you are proclaiming here.
Why? Simple - most women that have a breast size above A-cup wear a bra when they wear clothes. For clothed female characters, bra-shaped boobs is the "natural" shape. Of course, one can argue if there are more renders of the ladies with, or without clothes.
Should each G4 Female have an individual "no bra morph"? Most certainly!
Or, have two default pre-sets icons. One for clothed, and one for natural breasts. Both user groups win.
Who is this "we" you're speaking of?
Also from a content creation point of view the invisible bra base is almost a necessity. When modelling clothing you base it off the base mesh (one can model off a morphed figure, but it is an absolute pain). Think of the problems we have with clothing fitting around breasts now, a non-invisible bra base would make that worse
I suppose the next generation could come with a predialed natural breast shape morph, like gen 3 does with the navel, but you could already set that up for yourself with the current generation
I think the G3 characters are good, though the bending could be better. Good IK would be nice. Improvements need to be made in in clothing and hair dynamics - layering, sitting in skirts, dressing/undressing, draping in response to gravity.
As to what I want for the next generation... I'm more interested in what features get added to DS that can be leveraged by a figure
If you look back, Genesis was based on DS adding weightmapping and the ability to have morphs not take up memory 'til they are used
Gen 3 was based on DS adding dual quaternion weightmapping (which in turn enabled face rigging) and the advent of Iray
So what I'm interested in is what improvements we see to DS personally I would love
For straight things for the next generation though
Nice responses all!
I really like Compatibilities, but what I hope about Genesis 4 is perfectly new rig system. with true pin and IK.
then if it may break some compatiblities of other generation, I do not care much.
I hope all rigs keep one Axis cordinate. (eg YZX , YXZ) then we may only neeed to adjust , start point, end points,, align node, then adjust by twist orientatioln (Roll), at least about genesis4.
I am not master of rigging, but I do not know why DAZgenesis figures have individuall different Axis cordinate for each node along wold axis. .
after all,, the direction should change,, when we pose figure.
to start individual local axis cordinate, seems make us easy when we use Figure set up tool, then generate bones along the world axis as start rigging, but I think,, it just make complex to adjust each node presisely. then it cause more difficulity when we export them as other format. or import mortion. it may make difficult to generate auto rigging along with mesh by meshgroup by script too.
to achieve it,, DAZ need to improve current joint editor too.. it often tend to flip direction when align nodes acording to center and end point. around 180 degree,
when local cordinate change. it is not useful just complex. Is htere other aprication, recommend rigs like that? (set nodes with individual cordinate about one figure,
not keep one cordinate system (though we can choose it).? if it is recommended I really hope to know the clear reason..
I think all G4 would accomplish is to get us to spend more $$$$$. At this point, improving the characters is less important than improving the way they interact with their hair, garments, and the rest of the "world."
when you create new Character a menu selection of "WHAT FEATURE YOU WANT" (data)
sometime there is too many "NON USED" feature loaded,
help us to save time and memory,,,
Dynamic wrinkles with facial expressions
...and REALISTIC movement of feet and (above all) toes whit following wrinkled skin (or displacement)
Dynamic wrinkles with facial expressions like the one I've seen in a realtime video animation a while back. (I don't remember where...)
Well, my dream is kinda like this:
- a (super) high def char, compatible with G3, with an easy bridge to pro software (ZBrush/Maya/C4D etc...) wich let us have HD morph (not HD the DAZ3D way, HD in poly count ;-) ). I'd like G4 to be a new branch of development, not a rerun, wich lives side by side with the G3 branch
This may be true, so how about some "nude-mammary morphs included as well?" :^)
EDITED TO ADD: IK, this is a must as the alleged IK we have is atrocious and defeats its own purpose by not holding body parts correctly!
I really hope to see, genesis4 nodes should along to End points (keep clean nodes). there is actually no meaning,, End points not point out actuall Node tips.
Though I understand why it happen,, it is joint editor problem.. (it is not so smart at current) Node direction is decided by Orientation.
then End point only decide "node scalar" (include minus) , after that,, it work separately. DAZ studio not manage them at same time.
though there is "Align node" , it simply align current node tips to the "End point" then it break current orientation. not align "end point" to the current node tips.
if use "Auto Align node", the node tips follow "end points", then we can translate "end points", but It may easy break "scholor" value.
then DAZ may suggest,, 1. decide node scholor by "end points" then use Orientation and decide actuall vector direction.
after that,,, End point not much with node tip positon.. if there is option,, to change node length with clear value,, this problem may not happen,
and if there is option, auto attach End points to Current Node tips,,, this problem may not happen.
I agree that Daz Studio itself needs a modern Ik solver and hand & foot contact like the one we have in Iclone.
Expectations:
- New Technology to support a completly new line of humanoid 3d figures
- Figures optimized for volume based rendering.
Instead of thinking of just surfaces the figure needs to have volume based skin and bone layers with different thickness in different areas to allow proper subsurface scattering, refraction and transmission effects.
- updated technology to allow transfer of Ultra High Detail at 4'000'000+ vertices from any source to the base mesh
- cooperation with companies that specialise in 3d scanning human bodies and faces
- cooperation with companies that specialise in body and facial movement capture
- cooperation with companies that own industry wide used professional software for improved import and export of rigged figures
- - -
Required changes:
- > This means to break a lot of backwards compatibilty.
Personally I only expect clothing of older generations to be useable with some compromise. Everything else like skins, poses should not anymore be recyled but optimized for new technologies.
-> This also means a lot of new business partners that bring new skills and expertise along.
-> There is not much point in realeasing new figures without also making some ground breaking changes to DAZ Studio to support all the new required technology.
My hope is that DAZ Studio will one day be the best possible software to pose, animate and render licensed 3d humanoid figures.
It should not only be useable for beginners but also support workflows for advanced and professional users to export and import that figure technology between other professional software in very efficient ways.
- - -
2018 release date definitely YES!
2017 should belong to Genesis 3 in my opinion : ) Still many unexplored areas/themes when it comes to the models : )
Oh and one more thing I'd like to see, at least some discount on Victoria 8/ Michael 8 for those of us who are loyal customers and own a good number of Genesis 3 models.
Also the release gap between Genesis 3 Female and Genesis 3 Male was HUGE in my opinion so I'd like to see both Genesis 4 models released at the same time.
Lol 2018 release date lmao Yea when pigs fly, Daz is probably more secretive then Apple, At least Apple tells us some stuff, But Daz never says anything about what they are working on, they are not transparent at all about where they are in development of the next version :(
I'm interested in two things mostly.
1. Higher polygon count. It's not 1995 anymore.
2. Polygon edges that actually align with the physical structure of a human being.
#2 is critically important. So many morphs and JCM's exist because of the lack of mesh alignment in G3F. Just try to get proper smile lines for example. Nearly impossible. Said another way, polygon edges should run both parallel and perpendicalar to joints and folds, not diagonally across which is currently the bane of G3F. Meshes bend or fold along edges, they don't bend diagonally across polygons.
IIRC, the argument against #2 was that sculpting in 3D, you don't look at polygon alignment as it's too time consuming. The problem is that this is true of very high polygon meshes (millions of polygons). OTOH, if we're to be creating morphs and have limbs that bends and whatnot on lower polygon counts (< 200K), then having polygons that align with the physical structure of a human being is a must. And I don't think a little extra effort on the base character is unwarranted.
Oh, I have two more that aren't necessities, but more extra features in DAZ Studio.
1. I'd like to be able to create clothing for a particular figure and have the option to apply the reverse of the existing morphs on the figure to bring it back to G3F base (or G4F in this case).
2. Similar to #1, I'd like to be able to create clothing on a figure with non-zero pose and have the option to apply the reverse of that pose to the clothing.
Higher bend limit on the feet would be nice too. Reason being that the rigging is impossible to deal with beyond the current limit. Some bones acutally end up going backwards on certain footwear.
Bring back the topologically identical meshes for the two genders (or better yet (from the user's point of view, not the vendors') bring back the single mesh from the original Genesis).
1. Reverse Source Shape from Target in Transfer Utility
2. Bake rotations, rig the clothing from the baked posed figure, apply the inverse pose to the newly rigged item, Bake Rotations.
I wish instead of working on a new doll, you would work on bringing decent dynamics to studio. Cloth dynamic, hair dynamic and hard/soft body dynamics. This would improve all products, not just a single 2 dolls.
There is a Natural setting in the parameters. Parameters>Actor>Chest>Breasts Natural or Breasts Natural Left Breasts Natural Right. Located right above the eight standard shapes.