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BTW, I downloaded the kettu script, can't figure out how to use it.
And this is a great demonstration of the problem and why, I think, most people are migrating over to Iray (at least for photorealism).
Trying to get 3DL to work in Daz Studio requires a lot of advanced knowledge and constant tinkering to function, with constant mysterious bugs and problems.
Meanwhile, in about 10 minutes, I can have a beautiful scene set up in Iray. And the biggest problems are either fairly intuitive or have real world analogs (like 'good lighting'), or are generally understandable (lots of textures fill memory and dump to CPU, so use less textures)
Which Kettu script? Anything Kettu packages in zip files comes with instructions.
any posts that don't follow the line are deemed as speculation... so I'm deleting them for the daz team
That's NOT what he's saying. He's saying that 3Delight customers, like Poser users before them, aren't buying enough of what is made with both sets of materials when it matters most to make the effort worthwhile to some vendors.
I would adjust your timeline though. These sales were happening far before iray was released in DS. So they were having the same sales with genesis 2 and lower and 3DL. Customer demand now drives the demand for Iray. And as far as sales, go to any online major online store; it would be surprising if something wasn't on sale.
any posts that don't follow the line are deemed as speculation... so I'm deleting them for the daz team
...that is pretty much it. I've seen the thread about the girl on the main site page which is porbably the best Iray skin I have seen so far. However most likely the artist spent a tonne of time making adjustments possible even using some custom shaders to get that level of quality. Also know nothing about the system it was done on, whether it was rendered on the CPU or GPU, etc.
There were photo based maps available for Gen 4 (the Elite series) which looked surprisingly good. I couldn't use them at the time save for simple portraits (and I'm not into portraits) as I was still working on an old 1.6 GHz duo core 32 bit system and they did require a bit more memory and CPU horsepower to render..
...even new Daz Originals are showing up with Iray only shaders (there is one that appeared in the store last night). I thought they were still to have both 3DL and Iray ones.
...we also need the specular channel back.
...after spending a lot of time struggling with skin in Iray, I find the opposite. As I mentioned even after following what I read in and using tips and tricks I learned from the Fiddling with Iray Skin thread, the skin on my characters still looks more like "rubber" (and that's even when using skins optimised for Iray).
I don't use Blender as I just cannot grasp it's UI and setup, so have no experience with the Cycles engine.
..for me, tests in Iray can take an hour or more. I cannot use Iray view mode as my GPU has only 1 GB of VRAM and having the Daz programme open with a scene loaded already pushed it to in CPU mode. After about 15 - 20 min, the programme crashes to the desktop.
Currently working on a new 3DL scene, and tests I run I have been doing with a full set, character, props, and lights are taking about 4 minutes each.
Are you using UE2?
No I think you're confused. Your argument is "if iray sales are so hot why so many sales?" My response is, "take that out of the equation because they've been having these sales for years now... in fact every new release is a sale at 30% off. Trends in sales will always change based on what customers want to buy. Whether it's V4, Genesis, Iray, etc, demand will change and vendors have to keep track of that to keep providing what those customers want so that they keep their sales at an acceptable level. Nothing will ever be static, this is the nature of a computer/technology-based market. And based on those trends DAZ will keep the sales on whatever is demand at the time going.
...part of the reason many Poser users jumped ship from here was the introduction of Genesis and later DSON (which can be a real headache to work with). G3 is still not compatible with Poser (or for that fact even Carrara) and we will most likely be seeing G4 in the not so distant future. More recently, Daz stopped including Poser CF files, so everything is now only available in Daz .duf format. With most content moving to only Iray shaders, the door is pretty much being closed save for older "pre-Iray/.duf" content that many in the Poser community most likely already have.
Now we are also beginning to see a split within the Daz community itself over 3DL and Iray and are effectively hearing, "adapt or get left out".
...
Please make a bug report with this information.
I have bought like crazy during this year. But mainly older products. Which work fine with DAZ 4.8, which I still use. And I render with 3Delight. If DAZ PAs start develop items I can't use with this. I'll stop buying. For I have already bought more than I'll ever need. Every item I buy in the future will be just because it's looking so darned good. It's as simple as that. But at the moment, I still enjoy all the very good stuff which was developed so far.
While this won't help the overall issue, I wonder if there's a good way to nominate iray products for conversion to prove to PAs there is sufficient market to create them on a case-by-case basis for certain popular high-selling ones. (whether for 3DL conversion or for similar-but-not-quite-identical 3DL versions depending on which would be most appropriate).
Again it goes back to the fundamental economics of business
and the fast changing world of technology and quite frankly.. a bit of tribalist recalitrance.
Daz took thier figure tech in an innovative forward thinking direction that made supporting the lumbering regressive technology of poser , a non starter from a business perspective.
In the computer software industry sometimes users make choices not entirely based on cost or creative objectives or even features but other emotional ,partisan reasons ...I shall say no more on that subject
Perhaps ..And how is this any different from the Cell phone industry?
the Job/Labor Market,?
the way in which movies ,music and other forms of disposable entertainment are now delivered??
even cloud based software apps Like the Adobe CC etc.
The reason Daz has 365 sales is because of an excellent guy in the marketing department who thought that the store should be making money every day and not only twice a year. It is not out of desperation, but because it is working, and people are buying.
...it is going to move more people away especially a number of long timers who do not have the hardware resoruces to support optimal Iray performance and/or don't want to wait days for a render process to complete, nor want their images looking like everyone elses.
As to the Poser situation, Both Daz and Smith Micro kind of shot themselves in the foot with that and the users ended up to paying for it.
Customers are lost& gained for a variety of reasons at any given time however ,Like any other consumer product, the number of Daz Content users is not static therefore
it is not a zero sum game...For very user who stops buying daz Content for the reasons stated above there is likely a new user with viable hardware or an existing user with the financial means to upgrade their existing hardware to use Iray.
This is remains a controversial subject so I will parse my words carefully in hopes to avoid getting a post deleted.
The sentiment or often repeated web forum claims that the creation of the genesis figures was somehow Harmful to the Daz business model,are easily shown to be gratuitous.
I have no Data to support this but I would imagine that the majority the users and content producers of Daz Studio
,in this forum have never been poser users.
so the suggestion that they suffered from a loss of poser compatibility is just not a valid one IMHO.
The existing poser users are not suffering either as they have their own content markets and an application in which they prefer to use such content.
DAZ can't create the PoserCF packages if vendors don't include support for Poser in what they submit, and vendors are unlikely to do so as long as sales to Poser users are not a significant percentage of the total sales of a product. Unfortunately, the same is true of any desired support, including 3Delight or Cararra; vendors can read all the requests that get posted here for such support, but it won't happen if they don't see enough sales for products that do.
True this. Aside from the new releases, I don't believe the 3DL vs. Iray is a deciding factor in the sales. DAZ (and by extension, the PA stores) has a metric ton of content and there's new customers coming in practically every day now. If I was a newbie coming in and only saw regular prices for everything, I would be very unlikely to buy any older content. The year-round sales help open up the hobby/tools to new people and draw attention to the PA stores.
Done! Request #232491
Thanks for these, but gotta agree; short on time.
Thank you. It is a good idea, and when I've time. Going to be some months before I have enough I expect.
...I'd like to continue with 3D however it is getting more and more difficult to do so as Iray is apparently taking precedence over 3DL/Renderman. It is not just having the right hardware, it is also not possessing the skill and expertise. I am not a texture artist, my modelling skills skills are laughable at best, this is why people like myself choose to spend our money purchasing both texture and mesh content. If something is incompatible without say, a few simple fixes (like optimising Poser shaders for 3DL), it won't find it's way into my runtime/library. Converting Iray shaders to 3DL is not a simple process like optimising 3DL shaders to Iray is. There are channels that have no 3DL parallel, some that do not work the same, and some that are even missing.
Until there is more efficient optimisation that improves CPU render performance and skin/hair textures that match the "realistic" quality of other surfaces in a scene I am not totally sold on Iray. It's not that I'm looking for a "10 click render", but more, not having to spend weeks (months?) making adjustments to get skin and hair quality to match the rest of the scene while getting little else done..
Yes. We have cameras, after all.
Long time buyers don't need to quit 3d... they have tons of pre-IRAY content to work with.
In a thumbnail you can see a render and your mind thinks it's a photo. When you see the large render your mind instantly recognizes it's fake. In the thumbnail the shadows tricked you. In close-up... your mind sees all the fakery in its glory. Symmetrical faces. Symmetrical bodies. Clothes that are too clean or too dirty. Clothes whose wrinkles are a bit off ( because they're modeled in ). Hair that looks more real than the person. Hair that looks like brillo pad strand hair. Hair that looks painted diffuse. Bad expressions. Stiff pose. Unreal pose. Bad hand pose. Eyes looking out into nowhere. Camera takes straight on render which the eye realizes in a nano-second is fakery. Nothing in real life happens straight on in your eyesight. The camera focal is too small. Depth of field cries out fakery. T^he background is more real than the character. Background is pixelated. Background looks painted. Shadows in background make your eye think something is off. realistic shadows cast a darkness across character. And that facial symmetry that just won't let your eye stop thinking... this is fake... no matter how hard you try.
Photorealism is damn damn damn hard. Even with tons of Photoshop touching up.
And that's just one single render. What about the next render and light setting? And expression? And pose? and on and on and on...???
Most folks who think they want realism don't take into account the thousands of details that MUST go right to make it work