help please, about ghost bone, and ERC for clothing (fit to genesis figure)

kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

I hope to change rig of Karuki dress for genesis with some ghost bone.

now,, the " front roin" and "back roin" of the dress has been weight mapped to both thigh bone rotation.

it is useful usually,,,, but there seems some problem,,.

if right (or left) thigh bend forward,, as if there is magnet,, the back roin(skirt?) stick to the thin bones and move foward too,,

so I hope,, when one of thigh bend foward,,only the forward roin move foward too, but back roin do not move.
and when one of thighs bend back, the foward roin stay there,, only back roin to back with thigh rotation.

then,, I planned to set two child ghost bones (parented plevis) F-mover and B-mover ,for both roin,
and weight map for ghost bones bend (of course I know,, it remove weight map from things ).

now Front roin (vertices) rotate with F-mover, Back roin vertices rotate with B-mover.

next,, I need to ERC for thigh bones x rotation and ghost bones x rotation.

if just set ERC to one mover and one thigh bone with same step seems easy,,

but I hope to set ERC of both Thighs rotation to one mover,,
so need to think both Thighs negative and positive rotattion,,,
and compair both Thigh rotation value,then pick up bigger value,,,

case1) lThigh bend Foward 30 (-30 Xrotation), rThigh rotate Foward 15 (-15 Xrotation)
>>>>> F-mover rotate -30 Xrotation. (simply because,, 30>15)

case2) lThigh bend Foward 30(-30 Xrotation) , rThigh bend Back 40 (40 Xrotation)
>>>>> F-move rotate -30 Xrotation, and B-move rotate 40 Xrotation
case 3) lThigh bend Back 30(30 Xrotation), rThigh bend Back 40
>>>>>> only B-mover rotate Back 40. (40>30)

I can understand, what I need ,, but how I set ERC for both side thigh bone X rotation,,
to count, compare value,,. if I can pick up the value , it seems easy to set ERC,,

so hope to know,, how to pick up the bigger value. and keep the value to rotate mover,,.

(now I may need not think about back-mover,, it is same,, if I can do about f-mover,,I can do it,,)

so I hope,, tips or hint ,, or if I need to edit duf or dsa to make this ERC,
where Can I get more information? of course it is not easy for me,, I know that,,
but I hope to move joint more free, so I may study,, if there is document,, what I need to start?

(of course some user may say, "you need not to set such original ERC, there is more easy way by morph or etc,,"
but I understand what I hope and why it need clearly, so not need other advices to rigging,,and known already how to make
symple ERC,, in ds 4.5,, (not edit code of file,,) but just hope to know ,and need help what I want to do,,)

or simply I hope,, if I can change "fit-to" bone to ghost bone when I need,,by one click button,
or toggle switch,, eg change" rThing" bone of dress, to" r-mover" when I need,,,

I think,, which we need to choose "fit-to" bone, or ghost bone about each vertices, and can not
change with flexiblity,,is weak points of new triax figure..
it limit to move (fit to)clothing free,,

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,293
    edited December 1969

    If I understand you correctly, you need to use the weight map tool to paint the front and back separately to your new handles. This is going to cause stretching on the side areas, but if it's worth it to you, it's very doable.

    The weight map tool looks like a paintbrush and is just to the right of the bone tool you have selected in your last picture. When you have a given bone selected, it shows the weight map for that bone; red=100%, blue=0%. Use a tool tab to look at settings.

    It's better to set up face groups in a modeling program, assign to them automatically, and then smooth the edges, but if you are editing someone else's rig you probably can't do it this way.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2012

    mmm,,,Sickle Yield,, I know you are good vendor,,(actually I love your product,
    because you make many morph for each produt, before I requested too^^;)

    but I am not asking about how to weight map or how to smooth,, now,,, ^^;

    of course I know,,, I need to assigne weight map for ghost bones, r-mover to front part, and l-mover to back part.
    and it must remove weight for R-thin L-thin ,, but I understand that.

    and it is not easy but I can,, just reform weight to smooth with each rig,,
    after transfer and set frist rig,, i can do it ^^;

    now my pic not finished . set-new rig for new movements. becaues, I hope more.

    if I just hope manulaly ghost bones, and set figure poze,
    it may need not keep r-thing bone and left thing bones. (about original for V4, there are just 4 gohst bones,
    under hip, so it may need manually move,or with controller,though,, it can be more flexible to set poze what I hope,,

    so now I think remain auto change rig which fit to genesis,
    and apply manually movements with ghost bones,, if I want,,.,

    but if I just apply ghost bones, and exchange it from r-things and left thigh,,
    it can not auto-poze, when genesis move. so need ERC, and remain these two thigh bone,,
    which fit to and move with genesis bone.
    I hope,, you can undersatnd what I hope,, it is not how to weight map,,
    simply how to rotate ghostbone with ERC,,


    and if triax weight map for each rotation,, have two different map which can work,, eg only positive or negative rotation,
    most of these problem are removed.

    but as you know,, the colored vertices must follow when the joint (which has same name of clothing) of genesis move,
    so genesis r-thing rig move buck, the vertices assigned r-thin of clothing must move buck^^;
    it is usuall, but about this case, it must be strange.

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,293
    edited December 1969

    Thank you. :)

    Looking at both posts I think MAYBE I understand now. I've never tried using the property editor ERC freeze that way, but logically it might work. You would have to experiment. Just don't save back to the library until or unless you have a result that you want.

    The only thing is that to freeze the ERC to thigh movement, the garment itself must also have thigh bones - if they are deleted the procedure definitely won't work.

    IF this is the kind of thing you want to try and IF you have a rig with both thigh bones and the extra pose bones, this is what you might try. Make sure the item is NOT conformed to Genesis when you do this or the ERC freeze may not work properly.

    1. Pose the thigh where you want it for a given bone.
    2. Pose the single handle that you want to freeze to the bone rotation.
    3. Go to the property editor and the right panel.
    4. Right-click and choose ERC Freeze.
    5. Select the conforming item.
    6. Select the left thigh node and Xrotate (or Zrotate if you are swinging it to the side instead of front or back).
    7. Look at the list that comes up under that and see if the pose bone is in it.
    8. If the pose bone is in it, select that.
    9. Click Ok.

    From here you would go to Parameters for the pose bone, click on the tiny symbol on the right, and set the limits so that it only bends when the thigh is forward. Then repeat with the other pose bones for when it is bent back or the other leg is bent, etc..

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2012

    Hi thank you follow me,, and advice,,
    then now I think you understand clearly what I hope ^^;

    then ,, if I set front mover (whic x (bend) rotation assigned with frot roin,,) with r-thig and l-thigh,,
    (as you said,, just ERC freeze for X rotation,,)

    I am worry about,, it may double move,, when genesis rotate r-thigh and left-thigh,(,to same direction,, at same time.)

    lets see please,, my case 1,and 3,

    case1) lThigh bend Foward 30 (-30 Xrotation), rThigh rotate Foward 15 (-15 Xrotation)
    >>>>> F-mover rotate -30 Xrotation. (simply because,, 30>15)

    I worry about,, it may move the roin 30 plus 15,, I think.,,

    not need worry?

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    now I made hide new parameters to keep each both thin rotation value,
    rThinvalue and lThinvalue,, it can only preserve negative(foward) rotation value,,

    then,, next make the property to keep delta of two,, rThinvalue - lThinvalue, as name

    I set,, controller and sub components for each property to rotate my Fmover bone
    when genesis rotate her thins,,

    then it can work,, about all case 1 to case 3,,

    now my karuki dress can auto move its front roin,, when genesis rotate her things forward.
    then if I hope I can adjust it manually, by ghost F-mover,,

    (and I made controller to adjust the auto-follow value by multiple too,,)

    but,,,I am not happy,, :sick:because,, it is not simple and good way,,,,,

    if I know about dsf more,, , I can gather 4 controlloer to one, and no need to make
    new controller just for keep value and simple mathas hide parameter,,,, ,, @@;

    it may need just only one "followthinFwdmove.dsffile" in deta of the clothing,,,, I think,,,.

    so,,, is there good documents for dsf coding, with actuall case .

    I want to study dsf coding to set more complicate rig move,, ><; how can I do it,,, ??</p>

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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,293
    edited December 1969

    Now there I'm afraid I can't help you. Scripting is not something I normally do. Doing what you're doing already is actually more complex in terms of controllers than the average clothing item offered here or at Rendo.

    Also, I apologize, but what is a "roin?" It's the one word you keep losing me on.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    :red:ah,, so sorry ,,I mistake,, about word no,, Roin,,, it is LOIN,, @@;
    thenn,,, I do not understand well about LOIN ^^;,,,

    when I get some fntasy clothings,, then there are LOIN poze,,or named as LOIN, about some rig.
    so I thought,,,ceparate front part of clothing like skirt called as LOIN ?
    (I serched english dictionaly, but it seems strange,,, ^^; but it is usuall to call LOIN?)

    and,, I know,, if you set such controller or complex ERC about your product,,
    it may not useful for user,,,,,^^; or may cause other problem for user,,
    I know,,,you can do more and more good work by your skill,, ^^
    (I hope,, you release fantasy or SF , or game character look costume,,[email protected]@;)

    I think.bones (which made for fit to genesis) of clothing figure,, basically need to set bones as same as genesis rig
    to forrow genesis move,, but ,, ordinaly,, the clothing has many part,, not one mesh figure,,so sometimes,,
    need to free move about each part.

    and the genesis rig positon is not perfect much for the clothing figure ,,(because the rigs are for human,,,,)
    if bones of clothing can change positon, more close to the surface about each part,, (with keep fit to)
    I thought that...^^;

    about daz script or daz file documents ,, I need to serch more by my self,,,^^;

    thanks much,, because,,after read your kind reply and advices about ERC and weight map,,
    I could think,,,, I did not go wrong way ,,,.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,293
    edited December 1969

    You're welcome!

    The loins are the genitalia or pelvic areas of the human body. A loincloth (I'm guessing that's what you bought) is a cloth for covering that area. The front of a skirt is just called the front of the skirt. :-D

    Thank you for the compliment. Maybe some day Marieah will let me do a fantasy product, we'll see. ;)

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