No one asked me - Diomede posts screenshots on whatever

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 9

    Need to add some seats for

    Mistys G8 chars

    zip
    zip
    Misty G8.zip
    2M
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • Bunyip02Bunyip02 Posts: 5,243

    Diomede said:

    And here is my progress so far.

    See screenshots attached to above post for steps.

    Looking good !!!

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 6,339

    Awesome tutorial and great modelling as well, always look forward to your very informative posts and workflows yes

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Diomede said:

    And here is the current mesh and uvmap for the hull and mast

    I have discussed in other threads my ongoing problems with my laptop.  Well, I am finally up and 3D-ing again away from my desktop, but I am afraid I have lost a few WIPs between saves - including this one.  Fortunately, this is a very simple model and quickly replaced.  

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 8,931

    Diomede said:

    Diomede said:

    And here is the current mesh and uvmap for the hull and mast

    I have discussed in other threads my ongoing problems with my laptop.  Well, I am finally up and 3D-ing again away from my desktop, but I am afraid I have lost a few WIPs between saves - including this one.  Fortunately, this is a very simple model and quickly replaced.  

    glad you are up and running again!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Should be just in time to get it in the afterlife challenge.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Diomede said:

    Comparing red maple to acacia.

    In contrast, an acacia tree on a savannah will tend to be shorter and broader than a red maple in a dense woodland.  The acacia tree often has thorns (and vicious ants) to protect itself from herbivores, and its leaves are more needle-like.  Here are some examples to contrast with the red maple above.

    Carrara Ramified Plant Modeler Preset - FREEBIE Zip Attached

    Went way back in my forgotten and unfinished project file for an Acacia tree.  Decided to do a proof of concept which folks can have as a freebie.  I modeled an acacia leaf instead of (a) using an alpha map on a grid, or (b) modeling a pattern of grouped acacia leaves.  And I modeled just one, no variety, as I said this is just proof of concept.  The shaders are just procedural so rough looking.  I zipped up file folders for Carrara plants and leaves because the plant uses the leaf.  I think for the plant to find the leaf you have to copy the folder structure, but maybe not.  Let me know.

    One type of Acacia trees are those seemingly lonely trees on the African savannas.  I used the ramified preset to try to get that candelabra look with leaves just at the top.

    zip
    zip
    Dio Acacia Tree Preset.zip
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    tree and giraffe.jpg
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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Posting Here to Refer to When Asking Questions about ZBrush

    -

    In ZBrush, I want to edit the trunk and inner branches of a tree without changing the shape/path of outer branches that hold leaves.  I then want to save the edited tree in formats compatible with Studio/Poser/Carrara/Games/etc.

    -

    Basic ZBrush part of the Workflow - Import a tree obj.  The trunk/branches should be easily worked on separately from leaves/fruit.  If worked on separately, trunk/branches should 'fit' leaves/fruit when saved out.  What I want to be able to do in ZBrush includes. 

    - Edit trunk/branches to add minor details so less smooth even if general path is the same.

    - Edit trunk to add major details like a hole or the stub of a sawed off branch or... while preserving the general path.

    - Edit trunk/branches to add shader details like grooves intended to be saved in a normal or displacement map.    

     

    More detailed workflow (consider skipping to b Start ZBrush and c what I want to do in ZBrush)- 

    a) Pre-ZBrush.  I start an empty Carrara scene.  From references, I create custom leaves and other foliage for the tree (fruit, flowers,...).  The leaves can be simple flat grids with alpha masks for the leaves, or the leaves/fruit can be modeled mesh, or a combination.  The leaves are saved to a dedicated folder linked to Carrara's leaves presets which the Carrara plant editor has easy access to.  Start a new Carrara empty scene.  Insert a new plant object.  Delete default leaves in leaf tab.  Add new leaves (custom leaves saved to leaf preset folder should be in menu) and control size/placement/ratios.  Use plant editor to shape the trunk and branches as desired.  Set display to 'tree' and 'full detailed mesh.'  Save the tree as a Carrara tree preset for further use.  Start a new scene and load the saved custom tree from the tree presets.  It should load the custom tree with the custom leaves.  In Carrara assemble room, convert to other modeler.  Choose the vertex modeler.  The tree will be editable like an obj in vertex modeler, but has been converted to triangles.  To reduce polygons, use the Untriangulate menu option.  If tree total polygons seem reasonable, save the tree as an obj using Daz Studio obj preset.  Start a new Carrara scene.  Import the tree obj.  Select by shading domain and select the trunk and select the branches.  Delete so that only the leaves remain.  Save the leaves as their own obj.  Start a new scene.  Import the whole tree obj.  Select the trunk and branches again.  Invert selection to select just the leaves.  Delete the leaves.  Save the trunk/branches obj.  There should now be OBJs for (1) the whole tree mesh), (2) just the trunk/branches, and (3) just the leaves/fruit.  Start an empty Daz Studio scene.  Load just the trunk/branches OBJ using Carrara preset.  Repeat for the leaves OBJ.  Check to confirm that the leaves load to fit the trunk/branches.  Yay, it works so far. 

    b) Start ZBrush.  Import the trunk/branches OBJ in the tool/subtool menu.  Click edit mode.  Make polymesh3d. Now, I can use the standard brushes except the results are not so good because the trunk/branches are low res.  Select the dynamesh menu intending to preserve shape but make sculptable.  Click dynamesh.  The trunk/branches too smoothes and the outer branches are lost.  

    c)  Repeat what I want to be able to do in ZBrush. 

    - Edit trunk to add minor details making it less symmetrical even if general path is the same.

    - Edit trunk to add major details like a hole or the remains of a sawed off branch or... while preserving the general path.

    - Edit trunk/branches to add bark-like grooves intended to be saved in a normal or displacement map.    

    - UVMap (or can be uvmapped separately, open to suggestions)

    - Save obj meshes and maps (normal and displacement) so that they fit together when loaded in Studio/Poser/Carrara etc.

    d) Substance Painter - Load trunk/branch obj.  Paint bark, etc.  Save PBR maps.

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    See here for example of generic tree from Carrara's tree modeler saved as an obj. 

    1)  Here is the tree mesh, and just as an example say I want to create a hole in the trunk.  After converting to OBJ, I can edit the mesh in Carrara's vertex modeler.

    2) For example, here is a simple hole in the trunk.

    3) Obviously, ZBrush would be better able to sculpt the trunk and to add surface details like a normal map.

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    ZBrush WIPs.

    After saving separate objs for the trunk/branches and the leaves, I imported the trunk/branch mesh in ZBrush as a tool/subtool.  Unfortunately, when I made the tree model editable and made polymesh3D, and then applied the dynamesh, the outer branches shrank and became useless.  Recall, I want to preserve the paths of the outer branches so that they still fit the saved leaves obj.

    bb01 trunk too simple.jpg
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    bb02 could continue to model in Carrara.jpg
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    cc01 import tree and branches to zbrush edit mode make polymesh3d.jpg
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    cc02 getting ready to dynamesh.jpg
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    cc03 dynamesh smoothing smooths shrinks eliminates outer branches.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    So, I think the issue here is that I am not applying one of the dynamesh controls correctly.  Or, that there is a different function I should apply before applying dynamesh.  Either way, my experiments have been frustrating.  I am sure it will turn out to be something simple and obvious once revealed to me.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Here is a zip file of the trunk/branches OBJ exported from Carrara.  See attached ZIP.

    zip
    zip
    ZIP Trunk Branches Plant for ZBrush WalkThrough.zip
    582K
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    And here is a ZIP file of the leaves that fit that trunk/branches obj.  Warning, this file will be larger.

    zip
    zip
    ZIP Leaves Plant for ZBrush WalkThrough.zip
    905K
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Carrara Plant to DazStudio/Poser/Games Workflow

    As per the non-Zbrush portion of the above Carrara plant modeler, here is some more reference information.  I will post some additional screenshots in the next few posts.

    Here are some examples from my ShareCG page.  Most of the plants are in Carrara format, but a few of the recent ones are converted to Daz Studio props.  They should be labeled.  

    This freebie Daz Studio prop tree labled unrealistic uses leaves for which the shader is a reference photo that I took on a trip to an arboretum.

     

    aa00 sharecg diomede freebies.jpg
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    aa01 sharecg site trees.jpg
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    aa02 daz studio tree freebie made with carrara.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    References - I took references at a couple arboretums and botanical gardens.  To keep them straight, I would take a picture of the label before taking pictures of the plant of current interest.  Here is an example of reference pics for a South Pacific tree, even though I was on the mainland US.

    I can use something like the Substance Suite to design PBR materials from these reference photos I took and then paint them on a tree model of a Hawaiian Pritchardia hillebrandii tree.

     

    ee01 reference pic from visit to arboretum.jpg
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    ee01 reference pic from visit to arboretum 2.jpg
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    ee01 reference pic from visit to arboretum 3.jpg
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    Screenshot 2021-09-16 091308.jpg
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    Screenshot 2021-09-16 091451.jpg
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    Screenshot 2021-09-16 091507.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    More Non-ZBrush workflow for plants

    Here are examples of plants and leaves that come with Carrara's native content.  Carrara has a procedural modeler specifically for modeling plants.  Initiate the plant modeler using the tree icon on the top menu of the Assemble room.  After inserting a tree, Carrara opens the plant modeler room.  The plant modeler presents a series of tabs for the trunk, branches, leaves, tree shape, and experts.

     

    aa03 tree models that come with Carrara.jpg
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    aa04 leaves that come with Carrara.jpg
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    aa05 plant modeler icon.jpg
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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Plant modeler tabs (save experts tab for next post)

    trunk tab

    branches tab

    leaf tab

    tree shape tab

    tree shape control graph

     

     

     

    aa06 plant modeler trunk tab.jpg
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    aa07 trunk modeler branches tab.jpg
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    aa08 trunk modeler leaf tab.jpg
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    aa09 trunk modeler tree shape tab.jpg
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    aa11 control of tree shape.jpg
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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Plant modeler experts tab

     

    aa10 tree modeler experts tab.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Once a tree shape and leaves are chosen, return to the assemble room and convert the plant model to a vertex object.  However, the obj will be triangulated, which matters primarily for file size.  Select all the polygons and use the UNTRIANGULATE command to reduce the number of polygons significantly without affecting the tree shape.

    aa13 covert plant to other modeler.jpg
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    aa14 convert to vertex modeler.jpg
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    aa15 now when enter modeler go to vertex modeler not plant modeler.jpg
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    aa16 select all and untriangulate polygons.jpg
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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Full tree OBJ - separate into trunk/branches obj and different leaves/fruit obj saved in two different files.  Easy to do if select by shading domains and invert.  When saving each as an obj, I use the Daz Studio full scene preset.  As a test I load the trunk obj in Daz Studio using the Carrara preset.  Then I load the leaves obj with carrara preset.  In Daz Studio, the leaves should fit the trunk/branches.

    aa18 can select by shading domains.jpg
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    aa19 so can select by either the trunk and branches or by the leaves.jpg
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    aa20 export trunk and branches as OBJ.jpg
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    aa21 leaves exported as obj.jpg
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    aa22 import trunk to Daz Studio.jpg
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    aa23 import trunk and branches to daz studio.jpg
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    aa24 can import leaves separately to Daz Studio and they will fit.jpg
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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    RE: Rights

    There is a thread asking if trees created using Carrara's plant modeler may be sold.  I was elected valedictorian of my law school class, yet I can't give a 100% definitive answer.  The US copywright office was directly above mine for a decade, yet I can't give a definitive answer.  But I am very confident that I would prevail in any lawsuit over rights if I follow my intended workflow.

    Thread mentioned above.  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/516576/using-carrara-to-make-for-sale-trees#latest

    I intend to...

    - leaves/fruit/flowers - I intend to model myself in the vertex modeler and save to a leaf preset folder

    - trunk/branches - I intend to use the procedural functions in the plant modeler to shape a tree.  The trunk/branches will be retopologized and normal maps created.

    - obj - I intend to convert the resulting plant model to an obj and do further editing in ZBrush, 3DCoat, or similar sculpting program, and create a new mesh through retopology.

    - bark/stems texture maps - I have taken my own reference photos at parks, botanical gardens, and arboretums.  I will use Substance designer to create bark maps and Substance painter to paint the models

    - leaves/fruit/flowers - See bark/stem.  In addition, I may convert some of my leaf photos to alpha masks and apply to simple vertex grids.

    If someone has reason to believe that I can't use Carrara as part of a workflow for a tree mesh that I model, and shaders derived from photo references I took myself, then please point me to relevant information.  Seriously.  

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Setting Up Dedicated Custom Plant and Leaf Preset Folders

    A leaf folder that is added to the Carrara browser as a leaf folder will be included in the ADD menu of the leaf tab of the plant modeler.  Here are Carrara preset file folders I set up to ease the creation of custom leaves and plants.

    - Open the Carrara Browser Tray.  For each category (objects, shaders, clips,...), go to its tab to see the current folders.  In the upper right corner of the browser tray is an icon to add new folders.

    - Setting up objects folders.  Create a presets folder, in my case Dio Presets.  Create subfolders for objects, shaders, clips, etc.  I used Dio as a prefix for each.

    - The object and shader folders use specialty subfolders.  Objects can be clouds, terrains, particles, plants, leaves, or generic objects.  I created a Dio subfolder for each.

     

    gg01 in object browser tray upper right icon to add a folder.jpg
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    ff01 create carrara presets folders.jpg
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    ff02 objects folders.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Preset Folders should also be set up for shaders so they appear when bringing up shader menus.  Carrara has specialty shaders for grayscale, displacement, and color in addition to generic shaders.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Adding the preset folders.  Once the folders have been created on the drive or storage where you want it, use the icon in the browser tray to add the folders and choose content type.

    - Adding folder labeled Dio Objects.  Open Object tab within the object browser.  Click the add icon in upper right.  When menu appears, navigate to Dio Objects subfolder.

    - After choosing the object folder, select the type of object, in this case just generic objects

    - Can confirm that Dio Objects was added to the list of folders in the Browser Tray.

    Repeat for each category of objects.

    gg02 navigate to object folder.jpg
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    gg03 specify type of object in this case object.jpg
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    gg04 see Dio Objects added to browser folder.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Repeat file folder additions of shaders to browser tray for each category of shader

    Subfolder for UVMaps, texture maps, bump maps, etc created for shaders within the folder.  I am NOT adding these to the browser tray, but I do want to keep them with the shaders that will be derived from them.  Note, this is not for the references, etc.  It is for copies of the final maps.

     

    gg05 add other object folders and match type.jpg
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    gg06 repeat for shader types.jpg
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    gg07 a folder in shader section for uvmaps alpha maps etc.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Example - a tree from Hawaii, which I saw in the botanical gardens, the Polyscias Racemosa

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Here are some reference pics I took.

    hh01 tree viewed in person 01.jpg
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    hh02 tree viewed in person 2.jpg
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    hh03 tree viewed in person 3.jpg
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    hh04 tree 4.jpg
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    hh05 tree 5.jpg
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    hh06 tree bark.jpg
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    hh07 tree bark more.jpg
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    hh08 tree more more.jpg
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    hh09 tree plenty.jpg
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    hh10 tree branches.jpg
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    hh11 tree big picture.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365
    edited September 16

    Leaf Shader Appropriate for a square grid alpha.

    Took my reference pic in image editor and did simple selections and editing.

    The final diffuse and alpha maps are saved to the resources subfolder of the dio shader browser

    ii aa texture map diffuse from leaf reference.jpg
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    ii ac leaf with alpha.jpg
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    iiab black white alpha.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 8,931

    Wow wow and wow! Thanks for all this. A veritable wiki on trees :) 

    as an aside, have you tried replicating trees on the branch tips of another tree?

    from memory you add a new shader on the tips of the mother tree branches and replicate on that shader 

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,365

    Creating and saving a custom leaf to the custom preset folder

    Create a small scene.

    Insert a vertex object.

    Create a grid and reduce number of squares and value of U and Vs.

    The default UVMap is oddly rotated.  In the UV room, rotate the map so that the bottom of the map is also bottom of grid.

    For leaves, in the Assemble room, the stem goes on the right, not the bottom.  So, rotate the grid approprately.

    From the display tab in the UV room, export the UVMap to the subfolder for custom leaf resources

    ii01 new small scene.jpg
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    ii02 insert vertex object create grid.jpg
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    ii03 rotate uvmap so line up with model.jpg
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    ii04 rotate grid so that bottom is on the right.jpg
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    ii05 export uvmap of leaf grid.jpg
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    ii06 save uvmap to shader resource folder.jpg
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