Creating faces from vertices?

3DAGE

Just to clarify,. Carrara has no problems with polygons , Tri's or N-gons,.  and handles things which other programs will have issues with.

Have a look at any professionally built model,. and you'll find consistent clean geometry,. ,...not mixes,.

This really isn't a software v software thing,. it's a good practice thing,. and i'm not saying this to be rude ot to try to offend anyone,. rather the opposite,. to help and benefit others.

You can either learn how to do something correctly,. or not,. ....that's a personal learning choice.

if you want to get to the point of modeling for work or payment,. you need to know what you're doing,.. and why you're doing it that way.

Andy

 

WsCG

3DAGE said:

Just to clarify,. Carrara has no problems with polygons , Tri's or N-gons,.  and handles things which other programs will have issues with.

Have a look at any professionally built model,. and you'll find consistent clean geometry,. ,...not mixes,.

This really isn't a software v software thing,. it's a good practice thing,. and i'm not saying this to be rude ot to try to offend anyone,. rather the opposite,. to help and benefit others.

You can either learn how to do something correctly,. or not,. ....that's a personal learning choice.

if you want to get to the point of modeling for work or payment,. you need to know what you're doing,.. and why you're doing it that way.

Andy

 

Mixing Quads and Tris is not universally a bad thing to do. It's situational. In a case, like mine, where it's a flat, hard surface which won't be animated or deformed in any way, and will have a flat texture mapped to it, it's perfectly acceptable and practical.

Even in cases where there will be deformation, etc, it's not an automatic "no-go", and I've seen plenty of examples, by professionals, who will mix quads and tris. The idea is to use them strategically and purposefully, not willy-nilly. Outside of some obvious cases, I think it veers a bit into pedantry to suggest they should never be mixed, or describe it as being universally "incorrect". 

In my case, tris connecting a square to a circle, on an area that's largely covered by another object, is not going to negatively affect the final render(s).

Just for fun, I put together a quick mock-up/sample in Blender (since I know my way around that more than Carrara at this point)...

Here's a shot of the setup, and another which is a render of it, textured with a crappy counter-top texture, which I also used to make a quick-n-dirty spec and normal map. You see no aberrations in the render, no sign of the tris, etc. So, in a case like this, I don't feel mixing tris and quads is a problem, nor an example of poor modeling, at all. The results speak for themself.


 

Dartanbeck

it's perfectly acceptable and practical

While that might be true for certain marketplaces, that is not entirely true.

While Carrara doesn't care either way, some render engines will show issues in lighting and shadows between the two.

When I first became a Daz 3d PA, Daz didn't accept anything with meshes made of anything other than quads.

It is also common to try and have good edge-looping throughout.

Not meaning to argue... just saying....

WsCG

Dartanbeck said:

it's perfectly acceptable and practical

While that might be true for certain marketplaces, that is not entirely true.

While Carrara doesn't care either way, some render engines will show issues in lighting and shadows between the two.

When I first became a Daz 3d PA, Daz didn't accept anything with meshes made of anything other than quads.

It is also common to try and have good edge-looping throughout.

Not meaning to argue... just saying....

Like I said, it's situational.

In the case of organic moddeling, like people, or for things where you're going to have moving or deforming parts, yes, it's best to stick with quads, as they tend to deform cleaner than tris or ngons. I'm aware of this. However, I'm also aware that - again, with careful, strategic placement - you can get away with tris or even ngons on an organic model as well, and the result will be none the worse.

However, it's a moot point here, as what I have is a flat, straight surface. In those cases, in situations like mine, there's nothing wrong with "mixing" tris and quads. 

Explaining that it's not good to mix them on the basis of organic models meant to flex and animate is irrelevant, because I'm not creating an organic model and it's not going to have to animate. For my situation, it's perfectly acceptable, both in practice, and in terms of the results.

Just to demonstrate further... Here's another couple shots I took, where I extruded the sides out on all 4 sides, and then put some extra slices on one side (the bottom left of the render) just to create an Ngon, for illustration's sake. Can someone point out any problems in my renders? Can you see artifacts from where the tris meet the quads, or the ngons? The spec/highlight is going right across that part of the model. No, you can't, because it's a perfectly valid setup. So, I don't understand the point of continuing to push the issue.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm really not. But I'm getting frustrated, because it's at the point where it's become debating for debate's sake. I'm new to Carrara and its way of doing things, which tends to be different from other 3D apps out there. I'm not new to 3D modeling in general. I am familiar with all the concepts people are explaining to me.

If you want to believe "Nope, you're doing it wrong", then you can continue to believe that, and I'll continue to disagree. I requested help on achieving a certain result in Carrara. Several members have helped me with that, and I appreciate it. Can we leave it at that? Please? The pedantic nit-picking over non-issues is beginning to suck the fun out of learning this program.

 

Dartanbeck

Sure! ;)

Diomede

I think I was the person bringing in the n-gons.  Pay no mind to me.   

wgdjohn

Mitovo said:

wgdjohn said:

Mitovo said:

3DAGE said:

HI Mitovo

After ther first connection,. i understood the issue,. and why you'd have problems doing that in Carrara

it seems that you've picked up some "not great" modeling ideas.

How do you mean 'not great' modeling ideas? Are you referring to what I did in Blender? That's a perfectly normal and acceptable process of creating something. Everything's broken down to triangles at render-time, anyway. Perhaps it's "not great" in Carrara, but it's perfectly acceptable in any other app I've ever used. NGons are perfectly fine to keep as-is, as well, as long as all vertices rest on the same plane.

Hello Mitovo,    Carrara is a bit finicky, ??, perhaps. I have only used a few different 3D apps before... one used 3 sided polys only while the other used 5 sided polys only... Carrara handles 3 or 4 sided polys only and doesn't play well with n-gons. Before this year I'd never met an n-gon I didn't like. :)  I found out the hard way what chaos n-gons can create in Carrara. I imagine that Blender is a superior program in that respect. That might explain why some Carrara users model in Blender as well as other programs.

Before I forget... Thanks for posting your questions. I've found them to be very helpful in my own thirst for knowledge about 3D modeling.

I'm looking forward to seeing your counter in a render in the future... complete with drawers and doors... bet you already have upper cabinets planned out.

Early this year I finally decided to started entering the Carrara Challenges to help me learn all the many features of Carrara. Current one is Carrara Challenge #28: “Marriage” WIP Thread. I enter these to help me be a better 3D modeler and always create a few objects for each Challenge. I don't expect I'll win a prize but at least now I have complete scenes rendered which give me hopes and a feeling of accomplishment... but then who knows... perhaps one day... .. .

Modeling in Carrara is funnnnn!

Hey there, 

Yeah, I'm eager to see it come together as well. The scene is being roughly modeled after my kitchen here, so I all I have to do is turn my head and I'm looking straight at my reference. Completing the kitchen set up is only the first part of this. There's an entire little story I have in mind to create, and that kitchen scene is the setting. Should be a fun little story :p

Mitovo,  Would you mind posting a render of how your sink looks all fitted snugly into the hole you created? It's alway cool to see other's WIP as things come together.

DUDU

I jump in this thread because I'm like Mitovo, except for the creation of shader domains, the mix of various polygons types is not important for me.
I must recognize that I sometimes had bad surprise (polygons which were invisible in the render).
Dart, I don't understand why DAZ3D wants quads absolutely, the professional applications like Realflow or Marvellous Designer produce only tris, not squares cutted in two parts, but true triangles, which is perfect for the deformations.
For the morphing it would be better but there is not this option in Carrara.

PS: MD can produce quads, but it's optional.

Errata: The option for quads export is in the Fenric's .mdd export plugin, not in MD.

FifthElement

DUDU said:

I jump in this thread because I'm like Mitovo, except for the creation of shader domains, the mix of various polygons types is not important for me.
I must recognize that I sometimes had bad surprise (polygons which were invisible in the render).
Dart, I don't understand why DAZ3D wants quads absolutely, the professional applications like Realflow or Marvellous Designer produce only tris, not squares cutted in two parts, but true triangles, which is perfect for the deformations.
For the morphing it would be better but there is not this option in Carrara.

PS: MD can produce quads, but it's optional.

Take one of the Marvelous Designer models, destroy/delete the UV's, and try to UV map/unwrap it in Carrara and see what happens, or, just simply try to add some details to triangulated model in Carrara's modeler and see how that goes, and then, you will know importance of quads...

I been modeling things for a very long time, I have literrary nothing positive to say about n-gons, they are really only there to help the modeling process and make things easier in early stages of constructing the model 

DUDU

You're certainly right, I'm not a great modeler and I don't understand so many thing with the UV mapping in Carrara.

Anyway, I can do what I want with an object created in MD but... very hight numbers of polygons !

mjc1016

FifthElement said:

DUDU said:

I jump in this thread because I'm like Mitovo, except for the creation of shader domains, the mix of various polygons types is not important for me.
I must recognize that I sometimes had bad surprise (polygons which were invisible in the render).
Dart, I don't understand why DAZ3D wants quads absolutely, the professional applications like Realflow or Marvellous Designer produce only tris, not squares cutted in two parts, but true triangles, which is perfect for the deformations.
For the morphing it would be better but there is not this option in Carrara.

PS: MD can produce quads, but it's optional.

Take one of the Marvelous Designer models, destroy/delete the UV's, and try to UV map/unwrap it in Carrara and see what happens, or, just simply try to add some details to triangulated model in Carrara's modeler and see how that goes, and then, you will know importance of quads...

I been modeling things for a very long time, I have literrary nothing positive to say about n-gons, they are really only there to help the modeling process and make things easier in early stages of constructing the model 

Booleans, n-gons, mixing tris/quads really only work well in the program they were created in.  If the model is to be shared it should be as 'clean' as possible....none of the above, mostly, if not completely quads, clean edge loops, etc.