What I'd actually like to see with skirts, and I know there are technical reasons why, is for them to fall to different lengths depending on the character's leg length.  Wha'ts a mini-dress on my 5'9" friend is knee length on my 5'0" frame, even though there was a time we could otherwise share them.

So all these tiny skirts on 5'10" Victoria should fall lower on 5'5" Stephanie....

But then the bones don't line up right and everything gets weird in terms of bending...

(And I'd say skirts here in Chicago aren't that short, but I think it's probably more accurate to say that there's more variety in skirt length in a cooler climate city like Chicago than in generally warm LA)

''Can you clarify what you mean by morph exclusion? ''

I mean all the morphs listed in your product description which aren't being applied to the clothing, ie in this screenshot of Hongyu's Bikini 2 on Victoria 8, there are these

• Crotch Expose L
• Crotch Expose R
• Crotch Loosen 1
• Crotch Loosen 2
• Crotch Width
• Front Down 1
• Front Down 2
• Front Down 3
• Front Down L
• Front Down R
• Front Pull
• Front Width
• Height Adjust
• Height Adjust Front
• Height Adjust Rear
• Rear Center Depth
• Rear Center Height 1
• Rear Center Height 2
• Rear Down 1
• Rear Down 2
• Rear Loosen 1
• Rear Loosen 2
• Rear Loosen 3
• Side Down L
• Side Down R

that have been excluded from the Underwear morphs/Pelvic area set, I'd like them to be available (I thought I'd bought them  in your product)

                                 Thanx ,

                                            Dave

Neither talking about it or avoiding the issue really seems effective strategies.

You and the others who post on this thread are very specific about what you don't like, and courteous. I appreciate all of you doing that. But hey @donovancolbert   I happen to think my horse's face is gorgeous! But I'm biased.

I think that most people just aren't PRACTICED in giving constructive criticism. They don't know how to verbalize what they don't like, or they don't take the time. I haven't bought Victoria 8 because I think she has a horse face, it is very long,

Thanks for the links to the classroom poses for Victoria 4 and Genesis 3 Male/Female.

Now, I'd like to ask if there are any free classroom poses for Michael 4?

Not free but not expensive https://www.daz3d.com/the-briefing-room-poses you could try the V4 poses on the M4 as sometimes they work :)

I think that most people just aren't PRACTICED in giving constructive criticism. They don't know how to verbalize what they don't like, or they don't take the time. I haven't bought Victoria 8 because I think she has a horse face, it is very long, and her body has a very chisled, angled look that seems unnatural to me. I also feel like a lot of the releases recently based on V8 look less natural, more like paintings - that I find better results using V4 skin maps on G3 with UVs than what I am seeing from G8 pro packages and characters. But... I think in the forums, I might have just said I think V8 and G8 characters are "ugly". 
I was very critical about a cop car that one of the PAs did when I saw it months ago. Said things like, "it looks like a cop car from Grand Theft Auto 3..." 
And it does. The artist saw the comment and said, "I keep it up because it still sells," and I've since learned a little about applying shaders so I can see where an object originally designed for Poser 10 years ago can have new life with modern iRay shaders - especially if the base object is well built with lots of material zones. That could be some of the problem too. A lot of the ART of 3D content isn't in the final product, it is in the framework that a lot of people don't even know exists, or understand. 
I'm not trying to give a pass to people just being mean or insensitive because they're mean and insensitive. I'm just saying, just because they're mean or insensitive in expressing themselves, doesn't mean they might not be saying something you should try and focus in on as an artist. "WHY do you think my campground looks fake?" 
On my campground - I was justifying it in my head as a composition thing. If I make the lake as wide as I want it, all the background details would move so far back that they would be more lost than they already are - and it COULD be a perspective trick that MAKES the dock seem to jut out and the opposite bank to be closer than it is. :) But the fact is that I had already noticed it, thought the same thing, and came up with a justificaton because it is a compositional problem with the art. 
I've got a tin-image of Speed Racer jumping into the Mach 5 in my study/studio. It uses foreshortening to create a very dynamic image, but when you look at it critically, Speed's extended leg is out in front of the headlight and his rear leg is back by the rear fin of the car and the perspective is just totally wonky. I think if the artist had done a more realistic perspective on the image, it wouldn't feel as dynamic or exciting, though... so sometimes, there is a trade off between realism and what looks best. 
But... maybe I just need to fix the width of the pond! :D 

Entry:  # 13

Title: Sting in the tail.

Artist: Bunyip02

WIP Links: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3179961/#Comment_3179961

Products Used: Victoria 4 https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-2-base

                        https://www.daz3d.com/riae-hair

                        http://www.sharecg.com/v/43656/related/11/Poser/ScorpionDoll

                       https://www.daz3d.com/fantasy-tunnel

Additional Notes: Postwork using Mediachance Dynamic Auto Painter - Aqua Real filter.

Thanks for the links to the classroom poses for Victoria 4 and Genesis 3 Male/Female.

Now, I'd like to ask if there are any free classroom poses for Michael 4?

Some of my favorite G8Fs:

https://www.daz3d.com/fw-laverne-hd-for-monique-8

https://www.daz3d.com/kallisto-for-genesis-3-and-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-8

https://www.daz3d.com/charlotte-8

https://www.daz3d.com/pepper-for-genesis-3-and-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/lainey-for-victoria-8

https://www.daz3d.com/joanna-for-genesis-3-and-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/aisling-for-charlotte-8 (I'm not a fan of her brows, but she comes with a no-brow option to use fibermesh brows with her. Her skin is great, imo!)

And some of my favorite G8Ms:

https://www.daz3d.com/owen-8

https://www.daz3d.com/giovanni-for-genesis-3-and-8-male-s

https://www.daz3d.com/giuseppe-for-lucas-8

https://www.daz3d.com/marc-for-michael-8

https://www.daz3d.com/darius-8

You aren't missing out on anything by not having V1, V2, or M1, 2, or 3. Trust me. I have them. I've had them since they were new. They were great 20 years ago, and even Michael 1 was an improvement over Poser Dork, but really, scroll through the back pages of the store and look at them. They're hideous.

Hideous?

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/108001/the-older-generation-victoria-2-3-michael-2-3-and-their-children-renders/p1

This upcoming June will be Victoria 6's fifth birthday since her release. She was free for a short period on her first birthday, so do you guys think that model would possibly go up being free this June for her fifth birthday?

I wish Victoria 6 was on sale, or maybe even free again. I would love to have that model!

I sort of want Victoria 6 but strictly because Victoria 6 and Victoria 1/2 are the only Victorias I haven't bought. I need Michael 1/2 and Michael 3 too. 

This upcoming June will be Victoria 6's fifth birthday. Do you think she will be free during that time so others might get a chance to obtain that figure?

Maybe even before that — Generation 6 Starter Bundles have begun popping up in the free page, so it's probably only a matter of time until V6 gets her turn.

Hmm I wouldn't really say that. In the two years I've been here I've only seen two Genesis 2 starter bundles in the freebie section, I think. So I wouldn't hold my breath on V6 starter bundle being in the free section anytime soon.

This upcoming June will be Victoria 6's fifth birthday. Do you think she will be free during that time so others might get a chance to obtain that figure?

Maybe even before that — Generation 6 Starter Bundles have begun popping up in the free page, so it's probably only a matter of time until V6 gets her turn.

At $66, Owen thinks he is worth almost twice the early discounts on Victoria and Michael 8 combined - and if I remember right - if you got the pro packs on those early discounts that were around $35 - You got several old pro-packs with each, too. 
DAZ must think some of you ladies and gentlemen are going to *really* open your pocketbook up for Owen. Not me, until they can animate him and make him do my house chores and fix my car. :)  
 

I gota a banner with an extra 30% off..if you purchased "Elijah 7 or Lucian 7, as well as one of our recent Genesis 8 Male Daz Original characters.To show our appreciation for your support, please accept an additional 30% OFF of Owen 8 or Owen 8 Pro Bundle." Still don't know if he's different enough from Elijah and Lucas for me to buy..

Yep banner finallyf showed up for me also.

At $66, Owen thinks he is worth almost twice the early discounts on Victoria and Michael 8 combined - and if I remember right - if you got the pro packs on those early discounts that were around $35 - You got several old pro-packs with each, too. 
DAZ must think some of you ladies and gentlemen are going to *really* open your pocketbook up for Owen. Not me, until they can animate him and make him do my house chores and fix my car. :)  
 

I gota a banner with an extra 30% off..if you purchased "Elijah 7 or Lucian 7, as well as one of our recent Genesis 8 Male Daz Original characters.To show our appreciation for your support, please accept an additional 30% OFF of Owen 8 or Owen 8 Pro Bundle." Still don't know if he's different enough from Elijah and Lucas for me to buy..

At $66, Owen thinks he is worth almost twice the early discounts on Victoria and Michael 8 combined - and if I remember right - if you got the pro packs on those early discounts that were around $35 - You got several old pro-packs with each, too. 
DAZ must think some of you ladies and gentlemen are going to *really* open your pocketbook up for Owen. Not me, until they can animate him and make him do my house chores and fix my car. :)  
 

Another FYI you might be interested in.

For using Texture maps:

V4 maps work on Genesis 1 Basic Female preset (bring Base Female into Carrara and use V4 maps in the shaders)

M4 maps work on Genesis 1 Basic Male preset (bring Base Male into Carrara and use M4 maps in the shaders)

K4 maps work on Genesis 1 Basic Child preset (bring Base Child into Carrara and use K4 maps in the shaders)

Once the appropriate preset Genesis 1 is loaded, we can make the shape anything we want and the textures will still work, although extreme changes will cause at least some degree of stretching or constricting. But since so many Generation 4 maps were made by so many people for so many things (like creatures by RawArt, for example) it can be a handy way to make custom characters and creatures. 

Knowing that, you should also know that:

Stephanie Petite 4, The Girl 4, and Aiko 4 maps fit V4, so use Basic Female (Genesis 1) to use those maps

Freak 4, Hiro 4 and David 4 maps fit M4

The main Generation 4 shapes were based off of the Michael and Victoria base shapes using the same UV Mapping. So if it's an adult male generation 4 character, use the Genesis 1 Basic Male preset and the texture maps will fit the UVs. If it's an adult female generation 4 character, use the Basic Female.

Example:

For a new monster, we can load in Basic Male Genesis 1 preset, Edit > Remove Unused Masters > Consolidate Duplicate Shaders, and then switch out the texture maps for one of our M4 maps - perhaps RawArt's M4 Tin Man?

Then dial off the Basic Male shape and dial up the Gorilla morph, or the Troll... perhaps Undead Fiend. I like to mix and match shapes, so I've collected almost all of the various monster shapes for Genesis 1. The cool part about that (aside from the main content of this post!) is that, with Genesis, we can very easily individualize all of the various monsters in a scene. Grenol can be an entirely different looking Zonkrog than Bonmur, his shorter, uglier (looks more human) brother.

Delicious Delilah

Delilah for Genesis 3 and 8 Female

Lainey Hair for Genesis 3 Female(s) and Genesis 8 Female(s)

Faux Corset

Collective3d Portrait Vignettes Contemporary 5

InaneGlory's Photo Studio - Point and Shoot Iray

Iray Ghost Light Kit

This is the Genesis 8 version of Delilah.

Gallery image: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/502461/