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No encrypted for me.

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  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    diomede said:

    I will not be buying any DRM encryption only products.  I note that an alternative marketplace is promoting the fact that their products do not use DMR only.  Also, I would prefer anything that is Carrara compatible, which the Daz store is moving away from on a number of fronts.

    True, but the site in question seems to be implying that all new content from DAZ is encrypted, which is not the case; by my estimate, only a dozen or so items actually have been released that way and were clearly marked as such in the promotional emails that folks seem to not read completely.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,996
    nicstt said:

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

     

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    So I have decided to load 4.9 on my computer at work (and yes, my boss knows and doesn't care) as an experiment to see what the difference is and if my content categories will work the same.  Also to see what the improvements to the render engines really are.  I also want to actually see what the smart content looks like.  This hasn't changed my mind about encrypted content but I had no way to tell if my personal concerns about other parts of the upgrade were valid or not without actually compromising my home pc and laptop.  I will try things out on my work computer because if something goes wrong it doesn't matter.  I have no stake in the content loaded on my work computer because I don't generally use it for this (and yes, my boss is an awesome guy who totally understands my obsession and has no issues with what I do as long as his work gets done first.) I still am completely against something that may, if in the future something goes terribly wrong, lock me out of content I have paid for.  And even though I have only been here 4 1/2 months I have spent well over a $1000 (I'm afraid to look its probably at least twice that) I have issues with if something goes wrong and I need to get online to re verify or whatever and I am somewhere without internet I am just SOL. (We camp a lot in the summer and some places have wifi, most don't.) I get a LOT of work done offline around the campfire so it would really stink if I was unable to do that.

    Online or off line doesn't mater as far as work goes. You only need the connection if you want to update or download new products via connect. Or if you prefer to look through the shop via studio rather than the web pages.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    nicstt said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    nicstt said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Daikatana said:
    acanthis said:
    Daikatana said:

    For anyone still following this, I have a bit of a (hopefully positive ) heads up.

    All of the PC+ new releases for today were released in unencrypted format. Also they were made available for DIM, Connect, and Manual Download.

    I decided to show my apppreciation for this choice with my wallet.  Hopefully others do as well and the sales dept takes note.

    For me the question would be whether they stay that way, but I don't want to speculate.

    So far they have stayed with the multi-install format. 

    The only items to have been changed were intended, and advertised, to be encrypted from the outset.

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    Not quite the same, though - and not in the direction of encryption. I thought that was so people had the encrypted stuff to make sure the system worked.

    I don't know if that was the reason, but it did make sense to release it, otherwise no way of knowing if it would work. It isn't how I remember the threads, but I could be mistaken.

    I don't remember it that way either. There was a huge backlash of complaints and then they said they adjusted the system to not encrypt existing files as it was mostly pointless anyway. Not speculation - memory~

     

    Mattymanx said:
    nicstt said:

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

     

    Yeah, the early versions did. Anything you downloaded via Connect (old purchases included) installed as .enc files.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    Khory said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    So I have decided to load 4.9 on my computer at work (and yes, my boss knows and doesn't care) as an experiment to see what the difference is and if my content categories will work the same.  Also to see what the improvements to the render engines really are.  I also want to actually see what the smart content looks like.  This hasn't changed my mind about encrypted content but I had no way to tell if my personal concerns about other parts of the upgrade were valid or not without actually compromising my home pc and laptop.  I will try things out on my work computer because if something goes wrong it doesn't matter.  I have no stake in the content loaded on my work computer because I don't generally use it for this (and yes, my boss is an awesome guy who totally understands my obsession and has no issues with what I do as long as his work gets done first.) I still am completely against something that may, if in the future something goes terribly wrong, lock me out of content I have paid for.  And even though I have only been here 4 1/2 months I have spent well over a $1000 (I'm afraid to look its probably at least twice that) I have issues with if something goes wrong and I need to get online to re verify or whatever and I am somewhere without internet I am just SOL. (We camp a lot in the summer and some places have wifi, most don't.) I get a LOT of work done offline around the campfire so it would really stink if I was unable to do that.

    Online or off line doesn't mater as far as work goes. You only need the connection if you want to update or download new products via connect. Or if you prefer to look through the shop via studio rather than the web pages.

    Or if you reset your content DB and want to use your previously connect installed content without a major hassle.
  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,385

    So encrypted content does not work in Carrara even if Carrara users wanted it?

    Personally I don't want it for all the reasons listed above.

    Here is a thread we started in The Carrara forum just to remind Daz how much Carrara users buy (or more importantly have bought) from the Daz store.

    It's obvious Daz is driven by it's bottom dollar so this is just as a reminder at how much Daz will lose by taking such an innapropriate direction.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/58113/daz-abandons-carrara-users-because-we-don-t-buy-enough-content-how-many-pages-do-you-have-in-your-p/p1

  • kakmankakman Posts: 225
    head wax said:

    So encrypted content does not work in Carrara even if Carrara users wanted it?

    Personally I don't want it for all the reasons listed above.

    +1

    I stopped purchasing content from DAZ with the advent of Genesis 3 (as I am a Carrara user), with the exception of a few items for the older generations of characters.

    I also did not renew my Platinum Club subscription.

    I will NOT purchase ANY encrypted content.

    On to other providers.

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,404
    lx said:
    nicstt said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    nicstt said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Daikatana said:
    acanthis said:
    Daikatana said:

    For anyone still following this, I have a bit of a (hopefully positive ) heads up.

    All of the PC+ new releases for today were released in unencrypted format. Also they were made available for DIM, Connect, and Manual Download.

    I decided to show my apppreciation for this choice with my wallet.  Hopefully others do as well and the sales dept takes note.

    For me the question would be whether they stay that way, but I don't want to speculate.

    So far they have stayed with the multi-install format. 

    The only items to have been changed were intended, and advertised, to be encrypted from the outset.

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    Not quite the same, though - and not in the direction of encryption. I thought that was so people had the encrypted stuff to make sure the system worked.

    I don't know if that was the reason, but it did make sense to release it, otherwise no way of knowing if it would work. It isn't how I remember the threads, but I could be mistaken.

    I don't remember it that way either. There was a huge backlash of complaints and then they said they adjusted the system to not encrypt existing files as it was mostly pointless anyway. Not speculation - memory~

     

    Mattymanx said:
    nicstt said:

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

     

    Yeah, the early versions did. Anything you downloaded via Connect (old purchases included) installed as .enc files.

    That wasn't Studio 4.9 doing the encryption. That was DAZ Connect doing on-the-fly encryption of the product at the web server before shipping it down.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,996
    lx said:
    Mattymanx said:
    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

    Yeah, the early versions did. Anything you downloaded via Connect (old purchases included) installed as .enc files.

    Ah, I mis read then.  Did not realize they refered to newly downloaded content.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,388

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

     

     

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344

    Would everyone be happy if plugins were developed that enabled you to load encrypted products (including Genesis 3+ content) into Carrara and Poser?

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,574
    edited January 2016
    Mattymanx said:
    nicstt said:

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

     

    Not at the start, it encrypted everything installed via DAZ Connect, though not stuff installed with DIM. Later on the beta was changed not to encrypt DAZ connect installs either

    Post edited by Havos on
  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    edited January 2016
    diomede said:

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

     

     

    As far as I'm aware this should not happen. Encrypted products are all marked encrypted on the site i.e. there should be no way for any older products to ever appear encrypted.

    Some of their Iray shaders did get updated for 4.9's Iray fixes, but far from all. Not really relevant to Carrara, but something to be aware of for others on 4,8 and updating products.

     

    Kaleb242 said:

    Would everyone be happy if plugins were developed that enabled you to load encrypted products (including Genesis 3+ content) into Carrara and Poser?

    Everyone? No. Some Carrara and Poser uses, maybe.

    Post edited by lx_2807502 on
  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,879
    edited January 2016
    diomede said:

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

     

     

    Nope, not true at this point, and probably will never happen. Not much use in encrypting content that the pirates already have without encryption. However, you don't want to install or update anything you want to use in Carrara via Connect in DAZ Studio. Continue to use DIM or downloads as you have been and you should have no problems (at least no more problems than "normal").

    PS: Sorry diomede - I sould have answered this question over in the Carrara forum, but forgot to blush

    Post edited by DustRider on
  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,879
    Kaleb242 said:

    Would everyone be happy if plugins were developed that enabled you to load encrypted products (including Genesis 3+ content) into Carrara and Poser?

    I would, and I'm sure many others would too.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,574
    diomede said:

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

     

     

    Nothing installed with DIM is encrypted, and I would be very surprised if that situation changed.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,574

    I am always amazed at how many Carrara users posts in the forums, given we have been led to believe they are a small and decreasing band

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,388
    edited January 2016

    Thanks, lx and DustRider.  Clears up my confusion.  I will simply avoid content that is encryption-only.  Other content will be purchased using the same arbitrary and capricious choices I usually make.  RE: a plugin.  Yes, people who use Poser and Carrara would appreciate such a plugin. 

    EDIT: and thank you, Havos - I didn't see your posts when I replied.

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    Havos said:

    I am always amazed at how many Carrara users posts in the forums, given we have been led to believe they are a small and decreasing band

    I once mentioned on the forums that all signs on the forums and store pointed to Carrara no longer being of interest to Daz. I was immediately warned that such speculation would be unwise. Based on being told that development was still in progress for Carrara (after asking many times) I bought it. The manual was for a completely different version, but still workable. Months later, not a single official word about it or any sort of update.

    I mean you can call them conspiracy theories, speculations, whatever buzz word you want to stop paying customers from posting things you don't want on your forums, but the fact is there has been no word of anything happening for the other programs, only Studio. 

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344

    I'm not a fan of encryption, obfuscation, cryptography, or encoding of any licensed creative files into a form that I can't read or use in third party applications, including those I write myself. I prefer open standards whenever possible.

    The DUF format was a great leap forward from it's binary predecessors, but I feel Encrypted DAZ Connect is a giant leap backwards.

    There must be a better way to protect everyone's investment in 3d content from piracy than this.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,879
    edited January 2016
    Havos said:

    I am always amazed at how many Carrara users posts in the forums, given we have been led to believe they are a small and decreasing band

    We are small in numbers compared to DS users, but there are quite a few of us. Many Carrara users are big DS/Poser content. One of the big problems is that people believe that we just purchase Carrara related items. I'm sure some of that possibly comes from reduced sales of Carrara specific shaders for DS/Poser content. Unfortunately I don't think this is an accurate measure of how many people use the DS/Poser versions of the same products. I know I seldom purchase Carrara specific shaders because I'm quite used to fixing shaders to my taste imported from DS or Poser products. In fact, for the few items that I do have Carrara shaders for, I always tweak those as well, so there usually is no real advantage for me to purchase Carrara shaders in addition to the original product.

    Post edited by DustRider on
  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,404
    Havos said:
    Mattymanx said:
    nicstt said:

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

     

    Not at the start, it encrypted everything installed via DAZ Connect, though not stuff installed with DIM. Later on the beta was changed not to encrypt DAZ connect installs either

    Again Studio 4.9 did NOT encrypt ANYTHING. It doesn't (and didn't) know how. DAZ Connect does the encryption, on-the-fly, when products are downloaded and installed

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,574
    DustRider said:
    Havos said:

    I am always amazed at how many Carrara users posts in the forums, given we have been led to believe they are a small and decreasing band

    We are small in numbers compared to DS users, but there are quite a few of us. Many Carrara users are big DS/Poser content. One of the big problems is that people believe that we just purchase Carrara related items. I'm sure some of that possibly comes from reduced sales of Carrara specific shaders for DS/Poser content. Unfortunately I don't think this is an accurate measure of how many people use the DS/Poser versions of the same products. I know I seldom purchase Carrara specific shaders because I'm quite used to fixing shaders to my taste imported from DS or Poser products. In fact, for the few items that I do have Carrara shaders for, I always tweak those as well, so there usually is no real advantage for me to purchase Carrara shaders in addition to the original product.

    Interesting, I have also wondered how people can jump to conclusions by using sales to determine which application that item will be used in, as there is only a handful of items specifically aimed at just one app. It works both ways as well, since strong V4 sales may make people think the buyer is getting that to use on V4 in poser, where as I suspect many (including me) is buying it to use on G2F/G3F in Daz Studio.

    I remember when all the base figures were released along with separate products for Carrara specific shaders, and it did seem quite an extra cost to those users. That seems to have stopped now.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,038
    Kaleb242 said:

    Would everyone be happy if plugins were developed that enabled you to load encrypted products (including Genesis 3+ content) into Carrara and Poser?

    I started a thread in product suggestions earlier suggesting just that 

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    namffuak said:
    Havos said:
    Mattymanx said:
    nicstt said:

    I remember the initial release of 4.9 beta encrpted all content. That was changed within a few days or so iirc.

    DS49 beta did NOT encrypt anything. 

     

    Not at the start, it encrypted everything installed via DAZ Connect, though not stuff installed with DIM. Later on the beta was changed not to encrypt DAZ connect installs either

    Again Studio 4.9 did NOT encrypt ANYTHING. It doesn't (and didn't) know how. DAZ Connect does the encryption, on-the-fly, when products are downloaded and installed

    This is completely irrelevant. Connect is accessed as part of Studio 4.9. When the beta was initially released, anything you downloaded via Connect in Studio arrived as encrypted files. 

    I don't understand what you're trying to achieve by arguing the fine print of specific phrasings. It doesn't change anything?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    Leana said:
    Spit said:
    Fixmypcmike said:
    SpottedKitty said:
    Fixmypcmike said:

    Not sure what you're saying -- ExP morphs can't be installed with Connect, they need to be installed with DIM or manually.  What does that have to do with being prevented from doing something because of encryption?

    What I remember of the post (wish I could find it to make sure) stated that the way ExP morphs work is incompatible with the way Connect now rearranges the content folders. I suspect the ExP initialisation procedure can't understand the encryption. The only way to get them to work is to not use Connect for every figure that has ExP morphs, and all the morph sets themselves.

    It has nothing to do with encryption.  Remember how V4 and all her morphs had to be installed to the same runtime, and if you had more than one runtime it wouldn't work right?  That's why they don't work with Connect, because it installs each product to its own separate folders.  That's the opposite of what Cris was asking -- rather than encryption interfering with the users' ability to do something, the way the product was constructed interfered with the ability to install it using Connect, which is why it needs to be installed with DIM or manually.  So this is an example of Daz foregoing encryption so that the users can continue to do things, not an example of encryption preventing the users from doing something.

    Backwards. If it weren't for encryption/DRM you wouldn't have Connect with the fancy schmancy new file format and Smart Content.

    Connect is supposed to be DAZ's answer to all the "where is my content" and "how do I install" support requests: basically have DIM integrated directly in DS.

    They used the opportunity they had with that new system implementation to add the DRM part, but they could have done that without the Connect install system.

    ...that's all fine, but to penalise those who understand the process (like Microsoft is doing with Win 10 to users that have more savvy) is wrong. Again I cite the following statement from the Daz Connect FAQ:

    New products may begin to be offered through Daz Connect only. This will be determined on a product by product basis.

     What's to say this will not become SOP for all products?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    edited January 2016
    lx said:
    argel1200 said:
    Tigerschnecke said:

    I hope that perhaps some of the vendors who get their products assigned as encrypted-only may be able (and interested in) selling their content elsewhere. If it is relevant high-quality content, I would be willing to pay a few extra dollars compared to here.

    One of the reasons mentioned for the encryption early on (assuming I remember correctly) is to attract new PAs. So it may be interesting to see if some new names show up selling encrypted only content. Maybe they are hoping to entice some of the high end vendors to sell encrypted versions of stuff here. Some of those giant sci-fi cityscapes on Turbosquid that sell for $500+ come to mind. I'm not going to hold my breath though. Though if I could pick up an ecrypyted version for $5 for a $500 item, I would consider it. But for $50, I might die of laughter. Edit: is content for Unity sold encrypted?

    I dunno, I'd bite at $50 for a $500 type item. Some sort of massive influx of a new type of content that wouldn't otherwise be available would actually make the encryption make some sense to implement. That said, also not holding my breath or speculate that such a thing might ever occur. 

    ...I wouldn't if I could not load it in Carrara.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    diomede said:

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

     

     

    ...crikey, I just installed updates for Josie7

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    kyoto kid said:
    diomede said:

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

     

     

    ...crikey, I just installed updates for Josie7

    The updates to V7 M7 and Josie 7 are listed as being Iray shader updates.

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,683
    diomede said:

    There is an issue that I am still confused about.  Is it true that some previous purchases will be converted to encryption through DIM updates?  At the moment, encrypted content will not work in Carrara.  So if this is true, then I have to avoid updates to previously purchased content if I want it it to continue working in Carrara.  This might be a misconception.  I certainly hope so!   During this period of confusion, I have to be very careful about product updates.

    Completely false.  DIM does not have the capability to install encrypted content, so any updates you get through DIM cannot be encrypted.

     

This discussion has been closed.