Has commercial imperative destroyed artistic thought?
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I went on a spending spree, beginning a month or so ago, catching up on all the wonderful things that had been published since I engaged in a self inflicted DAZ exile a few years back. I tried to actually use the stuff I was acquiring, but due to the various sales and promotions, things were landing in my content directories faster than I could use them, particularly because, though I can't create/render scenes while I'm at work, I sure can shop for content. After a month or so of this I came to a similar realization as the OP - I'm not creating anything, I'm just collecting someone else's creations. Part of my problem is that now that I've experienced PBR I can't go back. The problem there is my ancient (5 year old) hardware makes rendering anything interesting a time killing, painful process. So, I'm trying to hang on until I can spiff up the hardware via holliday gifts (from myself or others) so the budget doesn't get blown and my wife get upset. I keep telling myself, once I get that wonderful new graphics card, rendering will commence in earnest.
Through all that, I've actually begun storyboarding in my head some tales I'd like to tell via rendering. Most of the raw material had been kicking around in my head for a while, but seeing what things are available to use has triggered the conceptualization of some scenes and events I hadn't thought of before. So shopping hasn't been a total creative distraction.
But at this point, I've burned through all the things that seemed like "must haves" in the store and I'm holding out on purchases until things I really want to use in my story arrive or are discounted more deeply *** Reptilian Bundle, Reptilian Add Ons bigger discount sale subliminal message for the sales staff ***. I also am waiting to see how things shake out with the DRM in future Studio versions, so I'm holding off on picking up more IRAY only/G3 only stuff for the time being. I've become much better at satisfying my acquisition urges by just adding to the wishlist rather than adding to the cart and redeveloping an eye for what is a useful quality product and what is just compelling/sexy marketing.
In the end the buy/make thing for me is all about time. I'd like to learn how to model, texture, rig, package, morph, etc. - but I just don't have the time to do that well enough that I'd actually want to use the results of my efforts and still have time to actually create images. So acquiring stuff made by other people helps with that, lets me focus on learning better lighting, posing, expression creation, scene composition, surface modification - those things done inside the rendering tool to create better images - that will (hopefully) pay off in higher quality/more satisfying images. It's tough to keep the creative momentum going when you get swamped in myriad technical details that stand between the image in your head and the rendered image on your screen. Acquiring some stuff helps reduce the gap between your vision and results. Heck, I've spent most of the last two months just trying to improve the realism of my skin shaders, and I'm still not really satisfied with them! Hardly any true finished renders worth talking about in all that time. I'd love it if someone would just sell me the exact shaders I want, I don't want to do all this work figuring out refraction indexes, correct gloss colors, albedo maps, translucency values, etc. I just want the nice looking skin! But I do it because I can't find it, and, as a result, less time doing real renders. Is that creativity or not? I think I'd be more effectively creative if I could buy what I need instead of doing it myself in this case.
But I'm with the OP in this regard - if all we do is acquire and never render, then we're not really being creative, we're just doing our own version of collecting/hoarding. There's a fine line in there somwhere between just acquiring and being completely self sufficient content generators and renderers, on one side of which lies creativity. That line is different for all of us depending on how much time we have to devote to this hobby.
Thank you McGyver. +100
I am totally and willfully guilty of buying something I had absolutely no idea what I would use it for, and actually never intended to render. At least three times. I did it to support a vendor I like, and whose promos made me laugh.
Ashley wrote: "And Daz keeps churning out an insane sausage factory of products quicker than anyone has any use for."
Yes, there are more products than any one person could ever use. But more than one person shops here, and they want different things, for different reasons.
Ashley wrote: "The stifling of creative thought by a relentless incessant stream of "make art" must have products has lead us away from art itself. And we are all the weaker artists for it."
I don't agree, but I understand the thoughts behind the comment, respect the point of view, and appreciate the insightful topic.
@larsmidnatt "Shouldn't a concerned community member share their thoughts if that is how they feel?"
And this privledge is somehow not extended to me?
@Taozen " today everyone has a fully automatic HQ camera . . . . . No messing with camera settings, no experimenting in the dark room."
I've now also fallen out of "everyone". I mess with my camera settings almost everyshot. I also experiment in my digital darkroom. Every photograph a person takes is not meant to be art. A lot of the photos you complain about are just meant to document a moment the photographer thought interesting.
Still a matter of personal perspective. Personally, I think Twitter is a much bigger bane to society than camera phones.
Saying that a store full of goods makes you less creative because they continue to add more inventory, I just don't buy that (oops, a pun). It's a bit like saying that going to a fabric store that always has new fabrics makes you less of a designer, or a store continuously adding new beads and findings makes you less of a jeweler. This is a store. The rule of any store is if you don't have new things on a regular basis, people will stop coming to look at your wares. You can't really fault a store for doing what they should be doing. As a customer, there is only one person with the power to buy or not buy. A good rule of thumb for anyone is buy only what you like or need. Anything else is totally in your hands.
As a PA, I hope I make things that inspire someone to make something. One product may do so for some, but may not for others, which is why we make more and different.
Honsetly this can be applied ot any artistic outlet. I see it A LOT on Deviant art in the past year. Poeple i used to eargly await new visions of color and specticle are now churning out half arsed pandering pictures with "to see the full NSFW image subscribe on Patreon!" These pictures are terrible, only partially done and NOTHING like the artists normal style. They are doing it in an effort to attract more subs and that makes me very, very sad. There has got to be a better way to make a living off of art than diminishing your talent on hack work. Patreon is the Devil; another perfect example of a great idea getting perveted by the all mighty dollar.
From my perspective, the tools available through DAZ (both the software and the content) have allowed me to focus on my Non-photorealistic Rendering (NPR) work - using fractal algorithms to teach computers how to draw/paint. Having to model/texture characters & environments from scratch, while a worthwhile & enjoyable creative endeavor in and of itself, would have necessarily taken away from the time I have available to work on my algos.
- Greg
Interesting conversation here. I was guilty as charged with all the above, except for the iRay stuff. I collect iRay stuff but barely know the basics so still at it but I DO hope one day, when I'm rich, famous and bored to tears (yea, that'll happen! LOL ) I'll get around to learning iRay, Blender, more indepth with ZBrush and 3DCoat... NOT. Yea, shiny squirrels abound in this environment but it'a about finding the time to do a little bit here and there. I sketch every night before bed, every single night I draw in a sketch pad. I'm quite a good artist but I love digital art but like many I get caught up in the next best thing mentality. It's not hard to do but since I've set goals to actually create stuff I can sell I've about stopped buying characters, skins and clothing. Thus my one weak spot is all things iRay for some reason. LOL I like making my own stuff these days, plus I'm learning all the time and improving my skills with each attempt.
I've accepted the idea that I'm a perpetual student of art, and once I did that I was happier. I can concentrate on the journey, and not the destination. :-)
I should set goals, benchmarks on the journey, and I'd make more progress, but right now I'm content to go with the flow.
And my weaknesses are too numerous to list -- anything new and interesting. :-)
So the flow of products is just fine. I read that somone started a day with 3D window shopping and coffee. That's a very nice way to start a day.
I make comics/graphic novels and so grab a lot of content intending to use it in a story way down the road. I do eventually use it.
The problem I run into is I'm finally ready to use the accumulated content but have a hard time trying to remember where it all is :P
Also some stores and some vendors have a habit of deleting content never to be made available again... so sometimes that's why I grab stuff early as well.
I agree with everything the OP pointed out especially concerning ...(OMG fastgrab just changed!!!!!)
Maybe the wording is different but the consepts are true for nearly every branch of art or craft that people do.
-I bought scads of beads and never used them all. I use to buy all sorts of paints just in case I needed that effect or color. I know there are quilters out there with rooms of fabric. Heck, even when I was in art classes at colledge people didn't only buy what was on the supplies list for class even though it meant they were dirt poor for weeks.
-Plenty of people spend time working with the materials and experamenting and never end up with a final piece of art from it. For some people the "see how it works" is the good part or the part that relaxes them and that is all they are looking for.
-See above and also go wander around a michaels or art supply store and watch how many people buy the cool new thing, or the discount stuff, or the thing they never saw before but will be perfect for some arcane part of what ever they are planning. They didn't go in looking for those things but they leave with them in droves.
- When you say Daz what you really mean is about 150 or 200 people are "churning" out around 6 products to be released per day. When you look at the volume of people working on products we are slow production wise. The volume of options for any art or craft staggers the mind these days. When I look in at the painting goodies I nearly fall out because there are so many more options than when I was in school. The same is true for pencils and pens and paper products. And the volume of options keeps increasing.
I can't imagine that having more supplies or options really makes anyone less artistic or creative. I know that having more options and more shiny new stuff to look at in the art store makes me want to go to town not feel limited, or less creative or inspired. Products in the 3d stores do the same thing.
More products=more brainstorming about what sets can be kit bashed, what outfits can be kit-bashed, what skin can go on which character- it opens options, it doesn't restrict them. If you're not organized, the number of products owned won't make any difference as to whether you render or not. I love surfing my Product Library and getting inspired by the possibilities and options. But I can see the OP's viewpoint because I think some artists could get bogged down.
Has commercial imperative destroyed artistic thought?
My answer is No. While it is true that we are collectors of things we may never use, this doesn't prevent us from doing art with or without the stuff collected. We are easily seduced by all the shiny things we could purchase and we can't blame business to capitalise on this; there is no obligation to actually buy any of the stuff. Looking through what's available may inspire, or may not. If I'm about to create an image of an arid landscape with a single tree in it, characters, cars and building props don't interest me. If I plan to do an urban scene, I need buildings, cars and characters. The visual art I plan to do dictates what commercial products may help me to complete what I have in mind. The artistic thought comes first, the tools to help accomplish it, last.
That is a big part of the fascination. :-) Just to see how it works -- or even to buy a product to learn from. When I was trying to learn IRay lighting, I got a set of HDR maps with variation settings, to help me figure out how to darken/brighten and rotate the environment.
Has commercial imperative destroyed artistic thought?
I say "no". The true artists can make art from dirt. However, the availability of ever more powerful "make art" tools entices more and more novices into the game and floods the world with hamburg instead of steak. There are a lot more people thinking art but still only a few actually doing it.
But also, "yes". Personally, I was being more creative 16 years ago with a copy of RayDream5 (ancester of Carrara) making everything from scratch than I am now with thousands of models in my DAZ archives. Each new advancement in technology made it easier to complete more projects but I spent less time GROKing the end product because I spent so much time on the learning curve of the tools. Now, I stare into the abyss leading to IRAY and ask do I want to even venture there. Why, oh why did I give up crayons?
I'm with Cris on this one.
Pretend for a moment that all 3d content creators have some sort of a common goal (even if it's subconscious), and ask yourself what that goal might be. The answer's obvious really. It's to recreate the entire world and everything in it in 3d form, and make it as realistic as possible. A lofty goal? Impossible? Well, who knows? 20 years ago, it would hardly have been worth thinking about, but now....
And how does that relate to 3d art? Well, for many artists, painters & sculptors, their goal is to interpret the world and the people in it as they see it. They may see things in a realistic, surreal or whimsical way, or it may not even be recognisable to the viewer as the world we live in, but it's their vision and they're entitled to it. I don't see why 3d artists should be any different. But to portray the real world, you need a starting point, and for us, that's 3d content. Buying the latest shiny new thing may not always be done for artistic reasons, but for many people, the figure or props they buy, might spark off an idea, or inspire them to try something new.
I don't see anything wrong with that.
mac
Yep, that one is me
I enjoy the technical challenge of trying to make things look 'realistic' and will continue to do so!
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same things, mind you it would be simpler, once someone had produced the perfect picture we could all retire and admire it forever never needing or looking for something else!
Keep in mind that artists have sketchbooks.
Most of what artists do isn't art, exactly, it's practice.
BINGO!
Sorry but that hamburger comment sounds just so elitist to me. I think I see far less "hamburger" and more "steak" in the galleries than ever before. Just because people can get where they are going faster does not mean that their work has any less value. Nor for that matter are novices less capable of inspired work. By this whole line of thought the impressionists would be viewed as less creative than painters 100 years before them because they had more paint colors available to them and they could buy them pre made.
Nor does the new tech or the learning curve mean less creativity. Content creators are on the learning curve nearly every single product and the last year for us has been even steeper than normal. Not just Iray, and a new figure but also programs like substance designer/painter. Not to mention updates and improvements in other programs that content creators use like zbrush. But they regularly think creatively often because of those very learning curves. I was up dancing around my office today because I got the exact look I wanted with a shader. One that I have been trying to get right for almost 2 years and could do successfully only now that Iray has given me new abilities. The learning curve shouldn't stifle creativity it should inspire it.
Mac, I like the goal, but go bigger. I think the real goal is to recreate the entire universe, and everything that is real or can be imagined in 3D form. When we accomplish that, we will have achieved a true work of art indeed.
Elitist? Moi?
Far from elitist, I'm one of the hamburger producers. 
Yes, my images actually look more realistic than they did years ago but their artistic value is no greater. I'm a technician, not an artist, and I freely admit it. As far as the galleries are concerned, I see some very nice technically produced images but very little "art". Mostly nicely done cookie cutter productions without uniqueness or memorability. However, every now and then a gem appears but probably no more often than it ever has. 
I'm reminded that M.C. Escher and Vladimir Horowitz were slammed by contemporaries for lacking 'art' and being merely 'technically proficient.'
It's one thing for a non-artist to claim he doesn't see art, and another thing for an artist to claim he doesn't see art. One is naivete the other is elitism. But a technician will amost always recognize and applaud skill. "Art" needs that extra something that makes it set apart from what has come before. Those who copy a style afterwards are technicians aspiring to become artists.
Art and the value of art is, and has for thousands of years, has been in the eye of the beholder. That is why technical skilled art like photography gets included. Why architecture gets included. Why crafts like pottery and jewelry fabrication get included. There is artistic value in technical skill. If the lowest common denominator for what can be called art is something along the lines of "evoking something, anything in the viewer" I am just as likely to experience something from a technically impressive render as I am from an image who's only goal is to evoke an emotion or tell a story. I can experience joy and wonder just as much as I do with a huge photo realist painted portrait, an Ansel Adams photograph, or a well done trompe l'oeil .
And while you decry the quantity I find that the variety is smaller than ever before and the gallaries filled with the same 20 something, barely clothed, European females just kinda standing there in front of a fantasy/sci fi/apocolyptic background or set. I really think some of that ancient Poser artwork is more creative and satisfying as a viewer because people actually had to create, which forced them to put your own stamp on a project. Take a look through the professional galleries for 3D or traditional art. You'll see men, children even old people. I kid you not! Old people, and the artist lovingly expresses every nook and cranny of wrinkles on the face with lighting that highlights the topology of their exprience. Look at the compositions, the use of shadow, the use of gesture and color. There are figures, scenes and items that you've never seen before because they concepted and created it themselves, bringing their own unique experience and perspective to the artwork. It's not only the limited scope of content in the marketplaces but even the rush toward realism that's pushing the artwork toward blandness. We're often times just creating promos for Aeon Soul or Stonemason and iRay tech demos. The time you spend tweaking iRay could be spent studying and experimenting with color and composition.
There's a reason Daz/Poser artists are looked down on in the broader art world that goes beyond elitism (though that's undoubtedly part of it). The content is all the same rehash for the last 4 or 5 generations of figures: Hot teacher, hot librarian, hot barbarian, in a fantasy, sci fi, or horror genre or a modern western milieu. Do you want to do historical images, scenes of non western people and things, families that include men and children? Content exists but it's few and far between and buried in the onslought of the afore mentioned "hotness". Looking through the store for inspiration can only inspire you to do the same kinda things if it's all the same kinda content. The vendors just want to make a buck (understandable) so they continue to offer up the same middle of the road, lowest common denominator content and the more perfect and complex the content the more difficult it is for the average Joe to create something unique of similar quality.
Whew! I'm glad to get that (mostly) off my chest. You can all flame me now, lol.
I feel I do art. Much of it is experimenting and 'sketching.'
But there are a handful of things I've done that strike me as Art, that evoke emotion.
This may be the best description of 'art' I've ever read.
See, I told you all he was a genius.
Too bad that I pooped out reading his post before I got to the good part. 