PA Names as part of product name
Ron Knights
Posts: 2,072
I've brought this subject up over the years. First, remember that I totally support the Published Artists and their work.
However, I really find it hard to work with content when so many products have the PA's name in front of the actual item name. (Touchable is one example.)
When I buy a character, I want to find that character's name in my content directory. I don't want to wade through countless PA's names to find that product.
Let's say a certain PA has 20 products. Then 20 other PAs have their names as part of the product name. There are way too many alphabets to search through.
I use the Content Library. I don't use Smart Content.
As it stands, I probably won't buy any product that uses the PA's name as part of the item name.
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Comments
We are required to put it there
it's not hard to make a copy under what ever name you wish and add it to the character list folder, you need not even load it AFAIK, just copy paste the duf, tip and icon files and rename them
it won't be in smart content (not that I can use that anyway) but will be in the character folder
Step 1: Install.
Step 2: Find where it went.
I once felt it was a vanity thing but I no longer see it that way. There have been times when two characters with the same name caused a conflict. Today we have a new release named Antebellum Mansion by PW and I own an old release named Antebellum Mansion. Luckily because the new release includes the artists initials, if I buy it, there will not be a conflict. So I no longer feel negative about a PA's name as part of a product name But I do wish it was at the end of a product name (enclosed in brackets) not at the beginning. Three things that bother me about naming conventions are:
Ron Knights I know your frustration.
I have a regular amount of items, Characters, Clothing, Environments, Poses, Props.
I use the Content Library as the useless Smart Content is far more irritating.
One way to deal with is clicking the sought Daz resource under its PA Name or the content name.
In this example, clicking the down arrow of Genesis 8 Female, this will expand the categories below.
Clicking on Clothing, this section will expand, click the first entry (in my example, I clicked the next entry)
Now suppose we are looking for an item with the author Wrangl (This item was available free in the defunct ShareCG.com)
In the Keyboard, press the letter W, it will take you to the nearest entry that start with.
Beneath that entry is Wrangl, a simple click of mouse to select it, then click the down arrow to expand it, Lovely_Angel is the name of this kind of item.
Unfortunately, ShareCG.com is dead.
If this is not the item, to go next just type the letter "W" once to get there otherwise keep the same procedure with the letter W.
This method can be used with any starting letter, it does not matter if are Characters, Clothing, Environments, Poses, Props or something else.
This method may alleviate a bit what we are after.
However, Daz people should do more and redesign the way these items should be found in a proper way.
Author Name is important because that's is how to identify that resource, if something goes wrong and then we need to contact support to get it fixed if issues arise.
Also, you can do a search, only if you know what item are you looking for, then hoover the mouse pointer to see where to look for.
Althought, I have run into issues lately, for some unforeseen reasons when looking for the desired item to work with.
I believe, there is more work to do with Daz Studio 2025/2026 to make it more easier to navigate the content.
All items do not contain a PA's name. I moved hundreds of files around, and did NOT run into any conflicting file names. I kept most items in the appropriate folders when possible.
I mostly moved items out of the PA (vanity) folders and into folders that made sense to me.
I understand that DAZ likely sees all this complicated stuff such as DIM, Smart Content, etc as aids for customers. I disagree.
I want to use DAZ to Make Art. I don't want to work just to make use of my purchases.
I have a very limited amount of physical, emotional and creative energy. All too often that energy is quickly killed because I've had to deal with the confusion caused by vanity folders and mis-name categories, whatever.
Again, these are not "vanity" folders, they are specifically demanded by Daz QA.
I'm part of an unofficial community of testers who help vendors resolve issues before submission, and as part of that we've been given as much of the Daz QA checklist as Daz will allow.
If vendors do not put their products in vendor specific folders, they WILL fail the Daz testing process.
~~~~~
Now, I'm speculating here, but I can definitely see why this policy has been implemented.
It means that vendors only have to worry about their own products when it comes to clashes, and that the QA team doesn't have to perform an exhaustive search of every single product that's ever been on the store. There's no need to check that no-one else has made a character called "Matilda" or an outfit called "Summer School Uniform", because the vendor folders mean that what matters is only that that PA has not made a product called that before (at least for that generation). It also means that things that are in the pipeline to be on the store aren't a problem - they don't have to worry that someone else will release something with that name while they're working on it (and renaming a product is something of a hassle).
You personally may not have encountered any file clashes from this recently... but they have happened in the past, so I can see why a policy would have been established to address that.
I don't find DIM complicated, it's one-click install/uninstall. You can even install/uninstall all your content at once, with a few clicks. Installing all my content (22.000+ products) manually would drive me nuts.
The Manifest Files it creates also makes it easy to write 3rd party scripts and apps for easily finding your content, no matter where it is located or how it is (mis)named.
its hardly a big world problem
you really need to manage your stress better, not that I can judge as I badly need a blood test, not been to a doctor over 5 years and my pressure cuff tells me its high
too scared to go to the doctor
I will be sorry when I have a stroke or heart attack like many of my family
WendyLuvsCatz This maybe off-topic.
If you have a Blood Test Machine, then you need to follow these numbers:
SYS 135
DIA 60
PULSE 60
That's what a doctor told me to follow for a relative.
Now, no need for blood pressure tablets, just some of the things that can be bought at the supermarket.
Nudie Immunity Hit Beetroot, Carrot, Orange, Pear & Ginger Juice 1 Ltr
Pay attention, try to not exceed to a safer amount when drinking in the mornings with empty stomach, start with half a glass, test with the machine if neccesary increasy to a full glass daily.
Coconut water is another alternative, drinking a safe amount, of glass level (1/4).
Dark Chocolate block 70% or more is reccommended with foods or when level is high after using a Blood Pressure Monitoring Device with the above reccommended levels, a half or 1 square depending of situation
The PA's name is ~Wolfie~; Touchable is just their name for hair texture products.
They also have the "Fantasies" range of hair textures to further complicate things.
The could just separate the character's name from the PA's name with a character not allowed in either, and then require the PA's name after the character's name?
OP - I can see your point, and often feel as strongly about things that don't conform to MY personal thought processes, but I once had a female character named "Salem" (I think she was Gen 8? maybe Gen 3) that I bought at another site and installed it. I too prefer Content Manager rather than Smart Content. When I went to render it the folder was filled with the icons of two completely different figures intermixed together - what a mess! I was a little peeved (Ended up that I needed to get over myself) and contacted the other site vendor complaining. They did a "<blink-blink> I had no way of knowing there was already another character with that name". I felt stupid for being pissy about it. Now I actually PREFER some sort of vendor prefix provided it is CONSISTENT, (you KNOW who you are).
All that said, I hope you find peace with this mess. I render for JOY, not for yet another reason to get pissy about something. Being in my early sixties I rely on this kind of stuff to help keep my mind active and sharp - not challenged to a frustration level that leads me to drop out and go play Bingo at the Senior Center instead.
"Render on, Garth!" - 3D Wayne
When searching for specific product names which may or may not include a PA's name in front of it, try to add a * in front of the search term. Works when using the file explorer in Windows as well
Here are today's new releases. Only a few have PA initials or name in the product name. If that is the rule, why isn't it followed? What exactly does Daz QA require in that regard?
With it at the front, when someone's looking at their Content Library, they'll see all characters by, let's say P3Design, following each other because their names are all starting by 'P3D', which feels more useful than being able to decided if someone prefers the Ursula from Pendragon or the one from P3Design:
https://www.daz3d.com/pn-ursula-for-genesis-9
https://www.daz3d.com/p3d-ursula-hd-for-genesis-9
Matt_Castle's answer is about the so-called 'vanity' folders, which are used by, I would say, almost if not all releases since Genesis 9, maybe Genesis 8.1.
The store-side name is a separate matter; that's more obvious if there's a clash, and easier to sort out if it happens, as it doesn't necessitate resaving or editing all the files in a product.
The standards relate to file names within the product, and if we look at the File List on the documentation Wiki, then the Retro Romper outfit (to take the first thing on the list) is compliant. We have this file path for the G8F version of the cardigan, for example:
/People/Genesis 8 Female/Clothing/Wolfie/Retro Romper/Retro Romper Cardigan G8F.duf
It's in the correct folder for a G8F clothing item, within which it's then in a PA specific folder, a product specific folder and the file name (like everything else in the set) has the product name in it - although an abbreviation like "RR" for the preset names would also be acceptable.
That's exactly what the OP did not want. The best way would have been to make the character name a separate field that the PA can choose, the PA field the PA's name that they cannot, and what gets rendered is a combination of the two, but you could sort by either one. Oh well.
Silly me, I didn't understand that (or did I?).
The only products that won't have the PA named folders are DO's for the most part. As a PA we have to use the folder with our name. You would have so many duplicates it would massively confuse the database cause of products or props named the same thing.
Edit: I may be misunderstanding what you're speaking about. Is it the product name or the folders that the product is in? I was speaking of the latter.
Products from vendors migrated from Renderosity are not having their products names changed (AFAIU so people can check by product name at Renderosity if they already have purchased them there). Several of the products on your screenshot are from such vendors. NEW products from these vendors seem to follow the same standard with no PA name/abbreviation in product names, maybe for product naming consistency in their own stores.
I am the "OP". My name is Ron.
Let's try one example that caused me to stop purchasing from DAZ for a month or two.
I bought a Genesis 9 product, and installed it. I eagerly set out to try the new product. It took awhile to find it.
It was listed under "DAZ Originals," rather than the name of the product I'd purchased.
I spent some time moving such products out of the "PA" folders. None of those products had duplicate names!
I still use Content Directories instead of Smart Content, but personally I prefer to have everything organized into the PA subfolder with PA names in the file. I allows me to search for the PA product better. I can just type in NG and I will find my own products quickly. It keeps things organized too, as I often remember a product based on the PA who created it, so I can find it faster. Everyone is going to have their own personal preference for organization, but as stated before, files at DAZ need to have a product identifier at the beginning to distinguish from other similarly named products and avoid conflicts at even deeper levels of controlling geometry, such as morph conflicts. Adding the PA short form, "NG" for me, that is entirely optional, but I think helps organize things better.
As for the "vanity" naming... I always use "NG" to define my products as a way to distinguish them as mine. This is not to be vain, but entirely the opposite. My most recent product is named "NG Portrait Studio" for example. I don't have the audacity to believe that I have the rights to the name "Portrait Studio" as other PAs may want to make their own version of said product. The "NG" allows me to create my version and still leave the option open for others to create their own version. I cringe everytime I hear people use the "vanity" label for naming products.
Just my two cents. Everyone will have their own opinion. But wanted to provide another viewpoint.
Ron, for that product, on the promo page is DAZ Originals listed as the Artist? Or does the Read Me list Daz Originals as the artist? If not, then you may want to submit a report to Customer Support. But I will agree that it can be frustrating to look in the Content Library and remember a product's image, but not a name and have to search for it. Or to think of it belonging to a specific PA and then find out it was sold to Daz and is being sold under DAZ Originals.
I will admit this is why I prefer Smart Content. The only time I will use Content Library is if not all of the items show up in Smart Content or the product is complex and the organization of the Content Library as laid out by the PA is much better.
But I fight the battles I can and accept what I can change and what I can't. At 73 life is too short now to get tied up in knots. The world is doing too good of a job of that for me already.
Mary
I can sympathise with the frustration. Speaking solely for myself ...
The folder naming convention exists to prevent namespace conflicts, as is a hard requirement that we PAs have to adhere to in order to sell products on the Daz store. And I agree that it is necessary to avoid accidental path/name duplication beteen products from different PAs with similarly named characters or whatever. This ensures that products sold on the Daz store will work, even if vendors on other storefronts name their characters the same as a different character sold in the Daz store. So, I completely support that requirement.
File names within product folders are now also required to have PA/Product initials/names at the beginning. Historically, this was not the case, and older products mostly don't do this. Unfortunately, this convention makes it harder to read the file names within the content pane since file names are truncated due to the limited width of the pane and the columnar layout of files within it. Essentially, all file names show the (IMO) useless part of the file name and, if you're lucky, only a few characters of the important part of the file name are visible. As a user, I find this unhelpful and frustrating. As a PA, I would prefer not to degrade (IMO) the experience for my customers, but I am obligated to follow the store rules. Some other PAs like and agree with the convention, and the folks at Daz obviously agree with them.
So, why does this rule exist? I have had it explained to me (by another PA) that the inclusion of PA names/initials is to help facilitate ordering product search results within Daz Studio for a given PA, not just the individual file name. It is necessary because search within DS content library seems to be based largely on a simple text string comparison within the file name itself. So, they have to jam in information about both the file and PA into one field to make this work. The net result being that the file names become harder to read and use within the application which is the universal cost of making search more useful for people who want to limit results to a particular PA/product, (but also less useful to people who don't want the results to be limited to a particular PA/Product).
As a database and web developer in my real job, I personally find this approach to search quite frustrating. It would be much better to avoid relying on a string naming convention to facilitate this functionality. It would make more sense to provide an explicit results filtering system that could be used to explictly filter results by one or more PA names, or one or more product name once the file text comparison is made. Rather like how you can filter search results on storefronts like Amazon to limit the overwhelming list of results by price range, or by manufacturer, or by some other criteria. Of course, this might not work well for products from other storefronts since DS would not have the product metadata (smart content etc) to draw from (that said, the PA-folder name could potentially work as a surrogate). However, the current system also does not work well for products from other storefronts who are not required to use the file naming convention. And since products from other storefronts do not require this convention, this ironically makes files from other stores easier to read within the Daz Studio content pane than products from the Daz store itself. This fact makes me gnash my teeth a bit, since I'm a PA who sells on the Daz store and I WANT the Daz store products to do well and be the best, most user friendly, products in the larger market. So, I feel that this file naming convention disadvantages my product in the marketplace.
So,if it were up to me, I would like to see Daz developers overhaul the search within Daz Studio to include an explicit search results filtering system and to do away with the file naming convention that makes reading the meaningful part of file names difficult for our customers. But it is not up to me. And some other PAs seem horrified at the idea of changing it, as they seem personally wedded to the existing naming convention. So, I've largely given up trying to discuss the issue. I do my best to make my products as useful as I can in other ways and hope my customers understand that the file naming convention is not my choice as a PA.
As someone who does not use Smart Content at all, I prefer the "Vanity Folders," but think of my DAZ assets as artwork and tend to remeber them by artist name. I dislike the little folder icons, but I can see how they're helpful because there's some vendor names that sound the same to me. The only things I want in DAZ Originals are the numbered characters, like Michael 9. The clothes and other things throw me off because I remember that Mada and FefeCoolYellow made them, not that DAZ Originals owns them. Anyway, someone was asking for a ponytail hair earlier, and I remembered that it was made by Lady Littlefox, but not the actual name of the hair. So I went to look in her store, and sure enough it was there. There should be a way to sort products better, either in the DAZ Store, DIM, Smart Content, etc.
I respect all you PA's. I do not buy products based on the PA's names. I buy a product based on its own appeal.
With that in mind, I believe it's an unnecessary burden to have a product confused with the addition of the PA's name. I will not go back an try to connect the product to the PA's name.
I only used the term "Vanity Folder" because I'd seen it used many times over the past 20+ years. If you look back at my posts in this thread, you will see that I lead off with the term "PA," and sometimes put the word "Vanity" in (Parenthesis). Ex (Vanity).
I'd hoped that my description of the issue would be sufficient. But apparently it is not. My DAZ Studio computer is currently out of the picture. I use that computer for all my artwork since it's the only one I have that is capable of handling iRay (I forget. Is that the right term?!)
To possibly facilitate this discussion, I have done a cold install of my DAZ Studio content on my everyday mini computer. I just won't use it for renders because its GPU is not sufficient to the task.
I might make some screenshots later. It's been a hectic week for me.
(*Edited again because of my scattered mind.*)
I totally ignore ReadMe files. For most of the past 20 plus years I've found them useless.
Differnt people have different workflows and requirements, no one can expect their tastes to be binding. Information is given in the readmes, and the readmes are available through DIM and Daz Studio. The Content Management System offers many ways to organise (and search) content, and even a tool (links) for reorganising content on disc.