PA Names as part of product name

Richard Haseltine

gcjellyfish said:

I can sympathise with the frustration. Speaking solely for myself ...

The folder naming convention exists to prevent namespace conflicts, as is a hard requirement that we PAs have to adhere to in order to sell products on the Daz store. And I agree that it is necessary to avoid accidental path/name duplication beteen products from different PAs with similarly named characters or whatever. This ensures that products sold on the Daz store will work, even if vendors on other storefronts name their characters the same as a different character sold in the Daz store. So, I completely support that requirement.

File names within product folders are now also required to have PA/Product initials/names at the beginning. Historically, this was not the case, and older products mostly don't do this. Unfortunately, this convention makes it harder to read the file names within the content pane since file names are truncated due to the limited width of the pane and the columnar layout of files within it. Essentially, all file names show the (IMO) useless part of the file name and, if you're lucky, only a few characters of the important part of the file name are visible. As a user, I find this unhelpful and frustrating. As a PA, I would prefer not to degrade (IMO) the experience for my customers, but I am obligated to follow the store rules. Some other PAs like and agree with the convention, and the folks at Daz obviously agree with them.

So, why does this rule exist? I have had it explained to me (by another PA) that the inclusion of PA names/initials is to help facilitate ordering product search results within Daz Studio for a given PA, not just the individual file name. It is necessary because search within DS content library seems to be based largely on a simple text string comparison within the file name itself. So, they have to jam in information about both the file and PA into one field to make this work. The net result being that the file names become harder to read and use within the application which is the universal cost of making search more useful for people who want to limit results to a particular PA/product, (but also less useful to people who don't want the results to be limited to a particular PA/Product).

As a database and web developer in my real job, I personally find this approach to search quite frustrating. It would be much better to avoid relying on a string naming convention to facilitate this functionality. It would make more sense to provide an explicit results filtering system that could be used to explictly filter results by one or more PA names, or one or more product name once the file text comparison is made. Rather like how you can filter search results on storefronts like Amazon to limit the overwhelming list of results by price range, or by manufacturer, or by some other criteria. Of course, this might not work well for products from other storefronts since DS would not have the product metadata (smart content etc) to draw from (that said, the PA-folder name could potentially work as a surrogate). However, the current system also does not work well for products from other storefronts who are not required to use the file naming convention. And since products from other storefronts do not require this convention, this ironically makes files from other stores easier to read within the Daz Studio content pane than products from the Daz store itself. This fact makes me gnash my teeth a bit, since I'm a PA who sells on the Daz store and I WANT the Daz store products to do well and be the best, most user friendly, products in the larger market. So, I feel that this file naming convention disadvantages my product in the marketplace.

So,if it were up to me, I would like to see Daz developers overhaul the search within Daz Studio to include an explicit search results filtering system and to do away with the file naming convention that makes reading the meaningful part of file names difficult for our customers. But it is not up to me. And some other PAs seem horrified at the idea of changing it, as they seem personally wedded to the existing naming convention. So, I've largely given up trying to discuss the issue. I do my best to make my products as useful as I can in other ways and hope my customers understand that the file naming convention is not my choice as a PA.

Smart Content has long had a range of search otpions, those in the Content Library have been expanded

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/content_library/advanced_filtering/start
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/smart_content/advanced_filtering/start

A find in page for "Content Library" and/or "Advanced Filtering" in these pages will show how the chnages have been added

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/714286/daz-studio-4-24-0-x-highlights
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log_4_24_0_3

Richard Haseltine

NylonGirl said:

Yes, putting the product maker's name at the end of the product name instead of the beginning would have been much better.

relabelling is now possible without breaking the file name http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/6/change_log#6_25_2025_14107

barbult

This is an excerpt from the readme for Darkwood Asylum, which was released today. The artist is listed as Kindred Arts on the product page? Are these folder names compliant? There is no KA prefix. I may still not understand the rule.

Darkwood Asylum
You can find new icons for loading this product in the following DAZ Studio Folders:
“Environments:Architecture:Darkwood Asylum”
“Environments:Architecture:Darkwood Asylum:Props”
“Environments:Architecture:Darkwood Asylum:Props:Materials"

(((Posted from my phone, which messed up all formatting.))) (((And fixed on my PC)))

Ron Knights

I don't run a search for anything. I just look in the Content Library.

 

ArtAngel

ArtAngel said:

. . . But I do wish it was at the end of a product name (enclosed in brackets) not at the beginning. . . .

Richard Haseltine said:

relabelling is now possible without breaking the file name http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/6/change_log#6_25_2025_14107

I stand by this. But this should be on DAZ not us. Append the PA names. This would make the divided united. Imagine if all readmes started with [document center]

Ron Knights said:

I spent some time moving such products out of the "PA" folders. None of those products had duplicate names!

About clashes not existing . . .  they do for many here is one proof thanks to @Wonderland, and many more exist. I am too busy too dig up a bunch of other proofs. But PAs naming attributes fix this.

Taoz said:

barbult said:

Here are today's new releases. Only a few have PA initials or name in the product name. If that is the rule, why isn't it followed? What exactly does Daz QA require in that regard?

Products from vendors migrated from Renderosity are not having their products names changed (AFAIU so people can check by product name at Renderosity if they already have purchased them there).  Several of the products on your screenshot are from such vendors.  NEW products from these vendors seem to follow the same standard with no PA name/abbreviation in product names, maybe for product naming consistency in their own stores.

@barbult is correct. Corner Bedroom (bought this and love this PA and the non-nonsensical product names) and there is no 'Vanity Name'. 

Frankly DAZ needs to implement standards for ALL PA's. Give me the readmes. Give me the required links. I bet I am not the only one who bought a DAZ product only to discover 35 days after purchase it is a  texture with a for a non-disclosed required item that exists only on RR. WTF? Yes I too have a PA I will not buy from ever again. I have also cancelled PC Plus again for August (renewed for July without my permission) because of noreadmes and other aggravating issues. So I get where the OP is coming from. Make some rules andmake them stick for all PA's. This is what aggravates buyer to avoid PA's or close their walllets like the OP has. Sales are the cog that makes DAZ and PA's thrive. Buyers are who keep this site alive. When buyers say they will not buy, DAZ should listen and pay heed.

Why make rules for PA's that other PA's are exempt from? QA needs a huge QA audit.

 

 

Taoz

ArtAngel said:

Taoz said:

barbult said:

Here are today's new releases. Only a few have PA initials or name in the product name. If that is the rule, why isn't it followed? What exactly does Daz QA require in that regard?

Products from vendors migrated from Renderosity are not having their products names changed (AFAIU so people can check by product name at Renderosity if they already have purchased them there).  Several of the products on your screenshot are from such vendors.  NEW products from these vendors seem to follow the same standard with no PA name/abbreviation in product names, maybe for product naming consistency in their own stores.

@barbult is correct. Corner Bedroom (bought this and love this PA and the non-nonsensical product names) and there is no 'Vanity Name'. 

Well, didn't say that she was wrong, just pointed out one reason for why some of the products do not have a PA name/abbrevation prepended. 

Frankly DAZ needs to implement standards for ALL PA's. 

And being a bit more strict with standards in general wouldn't hurt either.  I've been writing apps for 3D content management for over 12 years now, and a lot of the code is simply workarounds to make up for the lack of data consistency in the stores.  DAZ has improved a lot over the years in this respect but there are still many issues.   

Ron Knights

Richard, that link was useless to me. It's the kind of thing written for computer programmers, or people with more technical understanding than me.

It would be better to have a series of documents or translations, written in "plain English," for people like me.

 

*****Edited to add****

Please call me Ron.

barbult

Ron Knights said:

Richard, that link was useless to me. It's the kind of thing written for computer programmers, or people with more technical understanding than me.

It would be better to have a series of documents or translations, written in "plain English," for people like me.

 

*****Edited to add****

Please call me Ron.

Richard's link about relabeling is only for DS 2025 Alpha, not DS 4.24. So I suspect that linked information doesn't apply to your current situation anyway, no matter how it would be phrased. In the future, when DS6 is released, it might be a helpful feature. 

background

 

Frankly DAZ needs to implement standards for ALL PA's. Give me the readmes. Give me the required links. I bet I am not the only one who bought a DAZ product only to discover 35 days after purchase it is a  texture with a for a non-disclosed required item that exists only on RR. WTF? Yes I too have a PA I will not buy from ever again. I have also cancelled PC Plus again for August (renewed for July without my permission) because of noreadmes and other aggravating issues. So I get where the OP is coming from. Make some rules andmake them stick for all PA's. This is what aggravates buyer to avoid PA's or close their walllets like the OP has. Sales are the cog that makes DAZ and PA's thrive. Buyers are who keep this site alive. When buyers say they will not buy, DAZ should listen and pay heed.

Why make rules for PA's that other PA's are exempt from? QA needs a huge QA audit.

 

 

It's a great idea, but with tens of thousands of products already in the store ( many of which which can't be changed without causing huge problems )  it's a bit late to start with a new broom. Change any single existing product name , and then wait for the angry mob for all the scene files that won't work anymore.

Richard Haseltine

barbult said:

Ron Knights said:

Richard, that link was useless to me. It's the kind of thing written for computer programmers, or people with more technical understanding than me.

It would be better to have a series of documents or translations, written in "plain English," for people like me.

 

*****Edited to add****

Please call me Ron.

Richard's link about relabeling is only for DS 2025 Alpha, not DS 4.24. So I suspect that linked information doesn't apply to your current situation anyway, no matter how it would be phrased. In the future, when DS6 is released, it might be a helpful feature. 

The main bit for end-users would be

 Added a “Relabel…” action to the context menu of containers types that support being relabled in the “Content Library” pane

    Products

Added a “Relabel…” action to the context menu of assets in the “Content Library” pane

    Valid metadata is required
    Not available for symbolic links

Which tells you can right click on assets (files) and some containers (product foiders) in the Content Library to allow changing their label (display "name"). It works through their database entries, it isn't renaming stuff on disc, so it won't be useful if you have broken that for a product (unless you add your own anew). It's in the current 2025 Alpha, if you have that and want to try it out.

 

Silent Winter

ArtAngel said:

ArtAngel said:

. . . But I do wish it was at the end of a product name (enclosed in brackets) not at the beginning. . . .

Richard Haseltine said:

relabelling is now possible without breaking the file name http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/6/change_log#6_25_2025_14107

I stand by this. But this should be on DAZ not us. Append the PA names. This would make the divided united. Imagine if all readmes started with [document center]

Ron Knights said:

I spent some time moving such products out of the "PA" folders. None of those products had duplicate names!

About clashes not existing . . .  they do for many here is one proof thanks to @Wonderland, and many more exist. I am too busy too dig up a bunch of other proofs. But PAs naming attributes fix this.

Taoz said:

barbult said:

Here are today's new releases. Only a few have PA initials or name in the product name. If that is the rule, why isn't it followed? What exactly does Daz QA require in that regard?

Products from vendors migrated from Renderosity are not having their products names changed (AFAIU so people can check by product name at Renderosity if they already have purchased them there).  Several of the products on your screenshot are from such vendors.  NEW products from these vendors seem to follow the same standard with no PA name/abbreviation in product names, maybe for product naming consistency in their own stores.

@barbult is correct. Corner Bedroom (bought this and love this PA and the non-nonsensical product names) and there is no 'Vanity Name'. 

Frankly DAZ needs to implement standards for ALL PA's. Give me the readmes. Give me the required links. I bet I am not the only one who bought a DAZ product only to discover 35 days after purchase it is a  texture with a for a non-disclosed required item that exists only on RR. WTF? Yes I too have a PA I will not buy from ever again. I have also cancelled PC Plus again for August (renewed for July without my permission) because of noreadmes and other aggravating issues. So I get where the OP is coming from. Make some rules andmake them stick for all PA's. This is what aggravates buyer to avoid PA's or close their walllets like the OP has. Sales are the cog that makes DAZ and PA's thrive. Buyers are who keep this site alive. When buyers say they will not buy, DAZ should listen and pay heed.

Why make rules for PA's that other PA's are exempt from? QA needs a huge QA audit.

 

 

The rules have also changed over time in an attempt to standardise things.
I have one series of my products where a couple are in PA-Name folders and a couple aren't because the PA-Name folder came in as a hard requirement mid-series. Before that, I never saw the need and always removed them when installing products that had them from other PAs.

"Give me the readmes. Give me the required links." - This is a Daz-side issue, not a PA-issue. We don't create the readmes (though we input *some* of the info for them into a field when uploading products), and the 'Required Products' section of the sales page can only link to products at the Daz store.

Ron Knights

I continue to have problems with this issue. I just want to use DAZ Studio to Make Art. I don't want to work to make that happen.

I want to look at the provided content and put it together to make a creation of my own.

I can see why DAZ provides DIM, etc. But those tools should serve us. We shouldn't need to provide our own effort to make them work.

I know we can use tools or methods like "Categories" to help find things. But we're talking hours of extra effort.

My "DAZ Studio" computer sits on a 6 ft computer desk. I don't want to spend hours sitting at that desk, working on organization. In the past, I suffered from "edema," or fluid retention. I was much heavier, and my body was bloated.

The way things are now, I sit at the computer desk for a few minutes, put things together, render and enjoy my work.

WendyLuvsCatz

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Richard Haseltine

Ron Knights said:

I continue to have problems with this issue. I just want to use DAZ Studio to Make Art. I don't want to work to make that happen.

I want to look at the provided content and put it together to make a creation of my own.

I can see why DAZ provides DIM, etc. But those tools should serve us. We shouldn't need to provide our own effort to make them work.

I know we can use tools or methods like "Categories" to help find things. But we're talking hours of extra effort.

My "DAZ Studio" computer sits on a 6 ft computer desk. I don't want to spend hours sitting at that desk, working on organization. In the past, I suffered from "edema," or fluid retention. I was much heavier, and my body was bloated.

The way things are now, I sit at the computer desk for a few minutes, put things together, render and enjoy my work.

Daz content, except for the bulk transfers from other stors, is already categorised. So is some third-party content, though you will need to import the metadata in most cases. Categorising, or even settings up products, for items as you install them does not take that long - I wouldn't advise doing massive stacks in a sitting - and no pre-made organisiation, using metadata or folder trees, is going to satisfy everyone.

Richard Haseltine

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Moving and renaming the actual files will break the metadata, and of course will have to be redone after an update.

WendyLuvsCatz

Richard Haseltine said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Moving and renaming the actual files will break the metadata, and of course will have to be redone after an update.

he doesn't use smart content and if he did I suggested copying and pasting to the characters folder then renaming 

honestly though, everything is too much bother and if just not buying stuff is less stressful for him that might be best

crosswind

Richard Haseltine said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Moving and renaming the actual files will break the metadata, and of course will have to be redone after an update.

Moving files breaks metadata while renaming files doesn't ~~ 

Richard Haseltine

crosswind said:

Richard Haseltine said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Moving and renaming the actual files will break the metadata, and of course will have to be redone after an update.

Moving files breaks metadata while renaming files doesn't ~~ 

Moving and renaming both change the path, and so break the metadata, unless done within the appliation (though the changes will be lost if the database has to be reset).

Richard Haseltine

WendyLuvsCatz said:

Richard Haseltine said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Moving and renaming the actual files will break the metadata, and of course will have to be redone after an update.

he doesn't use smart content and if he did I suggested copying and pasting to the characters folder then renaming 

Smart Content is not the only thing that uses the CMS database

honestly though, everything is too much bother and if just not buying stuff is less stressful for him that might be best

crosswind

Richard Haseltine said:

crosswind said:

Richard Haseltine said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I guess then just renaming the duf, tip and icon files didn't work

you can move them all to whatever folder you like too or copy them there

renaming files should not be stressful for most people

Moving and renaming the actual files will break the metadata, and of course will have to be redone after an update.

Moving files breaks metadata while renaming files doesn't ~~ 

Moving and renaming both change the path, and so break the metadata, unless done within the appliation (though the changes will be lost if the database has to be reset).

I thought the suggestion was doing so in Content Lib.

WendyLuvsCatz

I said copy and paste and rename not cut and paste and rename

the originals are still in place

and yes, in the content library, the character file and icon, tip

Richard Haseltine

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I said copy and paste and rename not cut and paste and rename

the originals are still in place

and yes, in the content library, the character file and icon, tip

True, though it will mean that if the moved file is sued to load it won't have the proper metadata so it isnssssssss't a neutral option. Links are better, and involve only one file instead of two (or three).