Workflow for making static clothing mesh poseable?

SnowSultan · August 4

I think I already know the basic process for taking a static OBJ or FBX clothing mesh and making it posable in DAZ Studio (basically make it fit a figure in a T/A pose, transfer weights, then pose and identify stretching areas, turn active corrective morphs to 1.00, then fix in Zbrush or elsewhere and adjust weight maps where necessary), but could someone direct me to a more concise and accurate workflow though, especially for a Genesis 9 figure? Thank you very much.

barbult · August 4

When you have your properly shaped OBJ, run the Transfer Utility and select the most appropriate template.

SnowSultan · August 4

Right, but there's a lot more to it than that. As soon as you raise the arms, you're going to see really bad stretching because of the corrective morphs. I'm just looking for a tutorial that explains how to deal with everything that comes after. Thanks.

Elor · August 4

Jay Versluis have a playlist for making clothes with Marvelous Designer, some of the videos are about what needs to be done after the clothes are rigged:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPcx_LSSGfZf7IY-V263RMOkcgRdIOP1W

Mada has a lot of videos on her Youtube channel regarding clothes:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2SdKrOTXeXA1qMgNE84AsM8_Wq63gOBF

Older, but some videos can show useful tricks when making clothes on an older Josh Darling's Youtube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@joshdarling3626/videos

If at one point, you want to create shoes, Esha's tutorial on the subject is great (she also has older tutorials about rigging, but I don't have them, so can't comment on them):

https://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-training-advanced-02--rigging-shoes

lilweep · August 4

Sickleyield has a video on YouTube about the process. I'm not going to Google it for you tho.

SnowSultan · August 4

Thanks Elor, I'll take a look at a few of those.

I'm not going to Google it for you tho.

Wow. Something I said?

richardandtracy · August 4

Gaaaah! ALWAYS video tutorials. Writing works. It still does. Honest.

Takes much less time to read, it's non-linear, jumping back & forth is quick and easy, and indexing/word search is possible. [Try doing that on a video]. And you can go through it at your own speed, rather than relying on an inadequate resolution screen as a knowledgeable person goes zip-zip-zip from barely visible function to barely visible function at the same time as giving a commentary in an accent my semi-deaf ears can't distinguish.

Other than that, no problems with video tutorials. None. at. all.

For info, I do put my effort where my mouth is. I've done a Tutorial in the way I'd love them all to be, here, relating to making parametric characters into TriAx characters.

Regards,

Richard

SnowSultan · August 4

Thank you Richard, I downloaded it. There are no main changes in the process for G9?

edit: This is a tutorial for creating clones that you can use to convert clothing between DAZ figures, correct? I was asking for help with taking a static clothing mesh, like something you would purchase from Artstation, and the process that is required after using Transfer Weights. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.

richardandtracy · August 4

Sorry, not 100% sure what you mean. Do you mean about making an autofit clone for a TriAx version of A3/M3/V3 to take G9 clothes? If that is what you mean, then just follow the general procedure I outlined in section 6.6. I'm not too sure which version of G9 to suggest you make the V3/M3 shape try to get to. I think it's the base shape, but if that doesn't work, then maybe G9(Feminine) base or the masculine base could be used. Probably best to use the androgynous base as the first attempt.

I do apologise for not giving a V3 pose for making it as quick and simple as possible.

Regards,

Richard

WendyLuvsCatz · August 4

I personally dislike the A pose, I prefer a star pose for rigging sort of a cross between G3 and G8

when I used to have smart content it was simply a matter of baking rotations to get that shape

then doing the same after reposing the clothes and change scene identification

now I can no longer do that last step

I used this on G9 too

it avoids those weird armpit chest side stretches

I can sort of still do it but it's much more work

the JCMs etc, I cannot help with that

SnowSultan · August 4

No no, it's not your fault, but my question was for a whole different process. I'm asking about taking a 3D model of clothing that has never been fitted to anyone (a raw OBJ or FBX mesh from Blender or Zbrush) and fitting that to a G9 figure. I'll look at the tutorials Elor provided for now. Thanks again.

WendyLuvsCatz · August 4

SnowSultan said:

No no, it's not your fault, but my question was for a whole different process. I'm asking about taking a 3D model of clothing that has never been fitted to anyone (a raw OBJ or FBX mesh from Blender or Zbrush) and fitting that to a G9 figure. I'll look at the tutorials Elor provided for now. Thanks again.

have you tried fitting it with Dforce first using an animated pose ending in the Apose then exporting an obj and using the transfer utility on that?

it's what I do even making clothing myself

crosswind · August 4

As @Elor linked, I also strongly recommend Mada's series that can make you an expert. They helped me a lot. Very appreciated !

Then I'd like to share some useful tricks from my workflow.. though it's not a tutorial ~~

- Depending on the style of wearables (whatever armors, garments, accessories...), different wearable styles may bring yout different results after rigging them with Transfer Utility (TU). You have to spend a lot of time on weight mapping, fixing corrective morphs, e.g. with long skirt, long robe, etc. So each time you're happy with a certain style of such a "complex type" of wearable, better save it as a Projection Template. When you rig another similar style, you can re-use the Projection Template with TU so as to save quite a lot of time for tweaking and fixing...
(I showed you a case in screenshot 1. On the left, rigged with None or DS templates; On the right, rigged with my saved template)
Well, you can use other garment product with similar style as a template, which is also a pretty good way ~

- When weight mapping, if the garment is symmetrical, try using Symmetry option or Weight Map Symmetry... That'll save you more time.

- When fixing things in ZB or Blender, the same, fix them with Symmetry if you can do. Then you can import OBJ to update corrective morphs on different sides with Attenuate option.

- Or, if you just fix one side, you can use Mirroring option to update the corrective morph on the other side. (Left to Right or Right to Left...)

All these tricks can significantly help with speeding up your workflow. Hope you'll find them helpful when practicing with your workflow. Good luck !

SnowSultan · August 4

WendyLuvsCatz said:

have you tried fitting it with Dforce first using an animated pose ending in the Apose then exporting an obj and using the transfer utility on that?

it's what I do even making clothing myself

You mean just simulate dForce on it and have it drape on the figure? That's an interesting idea; I can't really do that here because it's armor, but I suppose that would work for very flowy items like robes or loose shirts.

Crosswind, thank you for the tips. I figured symmetry would be important, but being able to use previously saved templates is very helpful. How would you use another clothing item as a template? Since I'm trying to do this with a piece of armor (a top), is there a way to use one of the other ten thousand armor sets I've purchased here as a projection template?

algovincian · August 4

SnowSultan said:

I think I already know the basic process for taking a static OBJ or FBX clothing mesh and making it posable in DAZ Studio (basically make it fit a figure in a T/A pose, transfer weights, then pose and identify stretching areas, turn active corrective morphs to 1.00, then fix in Zbrush or elsewhere and adjust weight maps where necessary), but could someone direct me to a more concise and accurate workflow though, especially for a Genesis 9 figure? Thank you very much.

Have you checked out Seamster?

https://www.daz3d.com/seamster?srsltid=AfmBOoo_AfzK5Yr9fXYto96oNTZpxag8CxoCB_0Kx99-X-3FLcT5JvoB

- Greg

crosswind · August 4

SnowSultan said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

have you tried fitting it with Dforce first using an animated pose ending in the Apose then exporting an obj and using the transfer utility on that?

it's what I do even making clothing myself

You mean just simulate dForce on it and have it drape on the figure? That's an interesting idea; I can't really do that here because it's armor, but I suppose that would work for very flowy items like robes or loose shirts.

Crosswind, thank you for the tips. I figured symmetry would be important, but being able to use previously saved templates is very helpful. How would you use another clothing item as a template? Since I'm trying to do this with a piece of armor (a top), is there a way to use one of the other ten thousand armor sets I've purchased here as a projection template?

Yes, pls refer to below steps: ( I take G9 as an example ~~ )

1) Only load the clothing item into the scene. Then you can remove all maps / setting on it in Surfaces pane so as to make it in a pure white or grey color. Go to: File > Save As > Support Asset > Figure Asset(s)....
2) When specifying where to save the DUF file, save it to : your Daz Lirary\data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 9\Base\Projection Templates\SnowSultan (i.e. create a sub-folder for SnowSultan...) Give it a file name, like: SSTUG9 Top Template.duf, then with the settings as (screenshot 1)
3) When rigging with Transfer Utility, you'll find the template under Projection Template. Choose it to rig the top. (screenshot 2)
4) After rigging, all bones, weights even the morphs on the original Top are transferred to the rigged Top. You can freely tweak them, re-use the morphs or delete the morphs as you wish !

Certainly, before saving Figure Asset in step 1), you can delete all morph properties on the original Top but just keeping them may help with saving lots of time for you to make new morphs then, or at least saving some effort. That's a trick as well. (screenshot 3)

Good luck !

crosswind · August 4

BTW, I have Seamster plug-in and found it pretty helpful in terms of manipulating the items within key steps in the workflow... But since the minimum width of its pane is too wide for me, I found it a bit annoying, so I left it alone for quite a while.

Suggest you firstly go for all the standard procedures in DS before considering a buy when there's some discount... since the plugin is not cheap ~ and if you're not proficient in all the standard operations, you'll be probably lost in that plug-in ~

WendyLuvsCatz · August 5

SnowSultan said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

You mean just simulate dForce on it and have it drape on the figure? That's an interesting idea; I can't really do that here because it's armor, but I suppose that would work for very flowy items like robes or loose shirts.

armour it is probably best to select the bone it would be parented to and fill that entire section of mesh with 100% weightpaint then set the figure to collide with it, not the armour to the figure

I do this with scabbards, bags etc too

sadly smoothing can only collide with one thing but the breastplate is most likely the best choice for that thing

SnowSultan · August 5

Thanks to those who helped, but I watched three Mada videos and what I assume is a very useful Sickleyield one and still have no idea what to do. For some reason, just like 3D modeling itself, this just does not click with me. I can't find a single video on Youtube that explains the process step-by-step that isn't at least three years old and/or uses G9, and every one seems to show different steps in the preparation of the model, which I do not have much control over as I didn't model it myself.

I'm good at texturing and kitbashing though, so I'll just do that. Thanks again for the help.

lilweep · August 5

SnowSultan said:

Thanks to those who helped, but I watched three Mada videos and what I assume is a very useful Sickleyield one and still have no idea what to do.

I would suggest if you run into a problem at a certain step, screenshot it and then say "how do i fix this" instead of saying you have no idea what to do?

Stiff armor might come with different set of advice vs. leather armor for example, so more info/screenshots about garment might eliminate guesswork in providing advice.

For some reason, just like 3D modeling itself, this just does not click with me. I can't find a single video on Youtube that explains the process step-by-step that isn't at least three years old and/or uses G9,

i dont think there's any meaningful difference in content creation workflow from G8 to G9 so probably shouldnt concern yourself with video being 3 years old.

and every one seems to show different steps in the preparation of the model, which I do not have much control over as I didn't model it myself.

If you are making outfit for something other than personal use, you may want to pay more attention to quality control around preparing the perfect mesh, but if only for personal use you can probably cut corners. Also just because you didnt create it, doesnt mean you dont have control over it. You can split up parts of it, if parts are too high poly you you can retopologise. You can reposition it. You can repose or sculpt it to better fir your template before running transfer.

Personally if it was just for personal use, I would stop after Transfer Utility. Maybe fix weights.

It may be asking alot for tutorials to cover a step-by-step process of every fringe case. Presumably each approach has some commonalities though - like not trying to rig a 10 million polygon armor? Like having good topology flow and enough resolution where needed but still relatively low poly.

SnowSultan · August 5

I would suggest if you run into a problem at a certain step, screenshot it and then say "how do i fix this" instead of saying you have no idea what to do?

I didn't bother asking further because I have made no steps in this process; I do not understand the specifics of what they are talking about at this point, and is why I was hoping to find a more comprehensive step-by-step tutorial to begin from. I've read that some technical things changed with Genesis 9, which is again why I'm hoping to learn from a tutorial from this decade.

It's fine, I know this is a process with many steps and things to learn, I'm just a bit irritated that finding current and beginner-friendly tutorials for learning it is more difficult than it ought to be. Par for the course for most 3D-related things these days though. I still have a few tutorials to watch that might help, and maybe I can find something that will click. Thanks again.

algovincian · August 6

It's a complex topic for sure. The Seamster manual itself has some pretty good info about the rigging process in general. I think you can check it out before buying:

http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/93377/93377_seamstermanual.pdf

HTH.

- Greg

WendyLuvsCatz · August 6

just pointing out

while I don't model many clothes myself

I do autofit and fix a lot between figures including human clothing on Catoon

so while my suggestions might not seem helpful

I have spent an insane amount of time fixing the contortions which happen doing this

often skirts are best fitted as shirts for example using that template to avoid distortion if planning to use Dforce

or fitted to an existing skirt with posing bones

G9 lacks a skirt with bones template

SnowSultan · August 6

Thank you Algovincian, that might actually be helpful because it could go over simple things that I have not learned yet.

Wendy: I know you help a lot, I probably just need to learn a bit more before I can make use of your advice. I did manage to get the first steps done and use transfer weights properly, I just had trouble because the object wasn't coming into Studio in the right location and I had to reexport it from Blender. Small steps. :)

crosswind · August 6

There's no other secret... Tutorials are just guidelines while the most important thing is to keep experimenting in DS. For instance, there's no document or tutorial that tells you what each option in Transfer Utility does... and how they work. You have to try with it yourself. The more you do, the more you'll understand.

Besides, though the workflows from different tutorials vary, they all use the standard functions in DS. And don't worry about that the tutorials are not really up-to-date, the processes are more or less the same. A couple of tutorials made by Josh Darling 10 years ago used to help me with significatnly speeding up my workflow ~~

So, we would like to help if there's any specific issue you have... Good luck !

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