Whats it gonna take?
Ghost_Train
Posts: 61
Can't they just get along and flourish together? Bring it back
Post edited by Ghost_Train on
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We need make this happen :/ it's been too long both softwares would benefit from merging again :)
Except in that movie, your Daz3D was the bad guy and betrayed Arnold, sending him on a fake mission and getting his whole crew killed. You know that right? That was the handshake of death, not peace, not cooperation. It was flat out betrayal. Probably not the meme you want.
No. It is. The point of the meme has always been about the epic handshake moment (not to mention good friends who haven't seen each other in a long time). Not the entire Predator movie. Only the epic handshake. Its exactly what I wanted FrankTheTank and its perfect.
I wasn't aware they had merged before.
I am not at all sure that this would be possible even in pronciple.
I don't think they were ever mergerd. seemed more like friendly partnership. I dont' know the whole story, but for whatever reason they split up and went their own ways. Which wasn't a great move for users. most things sold on DAZ3d were also for Poser. It would be nice to see that come back together and bridge the gap again. Develop the bridge further between softwares.
Here is the story.
Daz Decided it was better to base their business model on a figure format that Daz owned (Genesis ,DSON) made for a platform they owned (Daz studio)
Rather than allow an external platform(Poser) to be the single point of failure for their business.
Posers owners failed to create their own native figures ,of a quality that vendors wanted to support, choosing instead to crowd source new poser figures from various third parties.
Reallusion figured out a way to import Genesis figures into their eco system .
A single developer figured out a way to import genesis figures into Blender ,with JCMs, via diffeomorphic.
The owners of Poser have adopted Laffemme & Lahomme as the included Defualt figures for poser.
Daz Studio base software and figures are free so everyone has access.
There was never a 'split', PAs/Content creators just stopped supporting it.
My guesstimation would be that there's just not enough sales to justify supporting both anymore.
Genesis came in Poser 4, befoe that we had three major versions of DS using paramteric rigging.
Interestings. So you're saying technically its up to the content creators and they could still upload with a Poser format option if thye wanted to? Its not "banned" from the DAZ store like I thought?
Ive been told its not going to change because of the people in charge, not content creators. So now im a bit confused on what the whole story might be. Also not trying to add any drama here if its a sore spot topic.
For me personally the environment are the most useful to me (love Stonemason stuff). I would think that is much less of a problem to use in Poser. Even if obj format was an optional download I could still use in Poser too.
I was disappointed after purchasing a newer Stonemason releases to find that the only format is DAZ Studio. So now if I were to use it i have to go through painstaking exports/conversions. Most of his stuff has been in multiple formats.
But in general, overall, I just wanted to see more unity between the two like it used to be since they're so similar. I wouldn't expect it to be a requirement that everyone create compatible formates for both. Just an option. Like if creators wanted to add Poser format its not hurting anyone to do so.
As an animator, Poser is the tool of legend. Animating in DAZ...seems like they did not design it for that and sounds like the devs won't be improving it. I want to be able to get things in Poser format. Just sad to see things not supporting it here. (old assets still do) Anyway...i can dream, and hope.
Poser content has never been banned from the store. Content creators have simply decided that supporting 2 programs was not bringing them enough extra sales to offset the extra work, just like most of them have now stopped providing 3DL materials and only support Iray.
Each content market will make their own decisions about what formats they support.
That is the way it has always been in the 3D marketplace.
But they are not really similar as Daz now uses a completely different content format
from Poser
Yet you will be hard pressed to find any Poser animation videos on youtube or anywhere else as most of us former poser animators have moved on the Blender or Reallusion Iclone
I'm workin on it. lol. The knowledge on how to use it at the level of RWBY and Red vs Blue is pretty scarce. I wasn't able to learn any of that from online tutorials. It came drirectly from someone who did the work himself. But after he passed I have seen a few people find a way to make some amazing things on their own just driven by inspiration. Sadly not many people do this now but i hope that can change because Poser is so unique and powerful as an animation tool. In ways industry standard 3d software is not. Not a lot of people know what its capable of and its amazing for working with mocap data.
And yes, my day job is animating for a studio that mainly uses Blender. So you're pretty right on.
I wish the devs for DAZ would prioritize improving its own animation tools too. Any time ive tried to learn it, it feels like it was not designed with animation in mind. Character rigs seem like they're only meant for static posing, but not for motion. Yet i see some people painstakingly going for it anyway. So why not improve it for them and let it be an even better story telling beast?
WIth a vast collection of assets in the store, it would seem all the more important to do so.
But this is also where a bridge would be extremely helpful between Poser and DAZ. I know there are workarounds
All that being said, i know my knowledge here is limited, so please correct me if im wrong.
If this is about file formats it should be moved to the Commons, by editign the first post and selecting that sub-forum from the drop-down.
Maybe my memory's getting spotty but I seem to remember that one of the other reasons (besides the ever-changing ownership of Poser) that DAZ started developing Studio was that the Poser owners at the time were going to charge DAZ to use their Poser "rooms" to develop characters for Poser.
My recollection was that that came up in Poser 5, and license terms that made some kinds of support look risky, it was after that that Curious Labs folded and the future for Poserlooked uncertain enough to want a plan B application for using content.
Its not.
I didn't realize this was going on that far back,.
Can you give some examples of this?
and for reference I was a “Professional poser animator” since Poser 4.
My IMDB film credit is for a
simulated video gameplay sequence ,made with Poser 6,
that I was commissioned for an indie film
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4134490/
Posers graph editor and Dope sheet are extremely primitive requiring you to open multiple instances of graph editor to see more then one channel at time.
Daz studio has a more modern graph editor inline with industry standards
And any BVH Mocap source used in poser has to have the exact same skeleton as the poser figure you are using.
Although the Daz Animate2 system has some limitations with the latest figures it is still far an away superior to posers animation layers tool .
And we have a means to use the entiire MIxamo Libraries with Daz genesis figures
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/701106/over-2-700-free-bespoke-bvh-animations-for-genesis-8
Check out @Dartanbeck works with Daz studio and Animate2
https://www.daz3d.com/the-power-of-animate-2--animating-with-precision-in-daz-studio
In almost 30 years, Poser didn't make it, despite the requests, to introduce some foot-floor contact for animations.
IClone has exactly that.
I immediatly skip watching any animation video with a foot skating error.
Are file formats not a Daz Studio issue, though?
my work in recent years is very heavily dependant on using instancing in Daz Studio, if I provide the obj's that are exported from my modeling programme then you're only getting a small portion of a much larger environment. I think there's plugins that can convert the instances to obj in DS, from there you could just export them DS?
You still won't be getting the same material setups or lighting and camera setups, but that's the best way to get one of my envoironments into Poser.
Here's the product to convert instances to objects: https://www.daz3d.com/instances-to-objects (It's in outlet store currently)
From a vendor perspective, Daz Studio content outsells Poser content 2-3 or more to 1. I'd completely drop Poser from my product line but I do have a few die-hard fans, plus I do most of my rigging in Poser anyway. I don't like to support 3 figures though, V4, G8 and G9, that starts to get tedious, especially if there are multiple poses.
I do believe there was a huge discussion about the possibility of Poser using "copy protection."
Poser would "phone home," and check your license credentials. Many people didn't like that feature.
Ironically, I do believe Poser currently "phones home."
The makers or owners of Poser never offered much content. DAZ was always the major provider.
That's one huge reason I haven't bought Poser for many years.
AFAIK, poser has been 'phoning home' for at least a decade.
Plenty of threads about it just randomly deactivating itself.
Thankfully, i don't think it's gotten as bad as when the game dev kit was released, now that was a nightmare.
Daz's recent addition of certain things being locked behind a subscription paywall, and all the stuff that requires an online connection is rather concerning for me as a offline user.
Hopefully they won't go too far down the SaS route, but i won't hold my breath in the current envrionment.
I have vague memories of a few different issues being discussed, with a great deal of emotions or drama involved.
I think this discussion took place around the time of Poser 5.
DAZ, at that time, helped with the DSON importer technology. That would help Poser people import DAZ content into Poser. DAZ eventually decided not to link themselves so closely to Poser.
Around that same time was the discussion of "copy protection" for Poser. People were worried that Poser would be bought by a different company. They were worried that Poser would no longer work for them.
I think the owners of Poser delayed the "phone home feature" at the time.
I think such issues arose in recent years when Bondware (Renderosity) bought Poser. I think this problem was handled easily.
(I think there was another issue, but I forgot!)
It seemed that DAZ jumped in with their announcement of DAZ Studio at about this time.
Yes - poser 5 was a train wreck - details here. By that time the original Zygote "Digital Art Zone" had been spun off as DAZ 3D and DAZ was making a comfortable income creatiing Poser content and serving as a market for other content creators. There was genuine fear that Poser would die off, so DAZ started their own Poser competitive product. Studio was focused on Poser content and formats right up through version 3. And then came Studio 4 -with its own formats and more rational file structure. As I understand it (and I may well be wrong) DAZ offered information and options for Poser to treat the new formats natively. The then-current owners of Poser declined, due to a mix of cost and "not invented here". They did include some 'hooks' that allowed DAZ to build the DSON importer, but that has gone away now.
Didn't get into the game until version 3, but IIRC, the file formats studio used natively didn't change from 3 to 4.
Genesis was using the same DSO, DSV, DAZ, etc. files that studio used in Version 3.
It was 4.5 that changed things, for the better IMHO, with the advent of DSON.
Welp, i completely misremembered that.
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I still wouldn't call it "more rational" but definitely simplified, especially compared to poser's 10+ file formats.
Though, Studio has been moving back towards a massive number of file formats, some useful, some, not so much.