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It's been around five years now since I built my PC, so I'm just a little out of touch with the latest, but wouldn't Multi-CPU motherboards be the answer to the GPU price scalping that's going on? I mean I only have and AMD Ryzen 7 2700 CPU, but at least I can use as much memory as I like and while it's not the fastest, it still gets the job done and I can only imagine what two of them would achieve, or better still, four of them!
Seriously, when I consider how cheap my CPU was, buying four of them would still be peanuts in comparison to the prices of those GPUs, and you even get to assign as much system RAM as you want to rendering tasks, so maybe Multi-CPU motherboards fitted with multiple CPU's are worth looking into.
Thermal Grizzly is a big company, but, Nvidia is a bit bigger...
My 4090 does what it was advertised to do.
Unfortunately it would take a lot of CPUs to match a decent GPU, even from previous generations.
$11,000 for the GPU
$15,000 for the rest of the hardware+rack to hold it
another roughly $10,000-$15,000 to add the new server room addition to the house with it's own AC and power meter.
yikes...No thank you
I'll be happy with my 12GB 3060 until prices come down to a realistic level on GPU's that don't need any of that.
That is the thing, I lived for years with no automobile, I had to walk everywhere, because instead I bought an $8,000 PC with $20,000+ (my cost) worth of Daz assets.
Now that I have (almost) paid them off, I finally bought an automobile. I need to pay off the automobile.
I don't think I can pay for the car by making 3d art... So, I work another job on the side. It is sad I cannot make a living doing 3D art with all I have invested in the field over my lifetime.
I render more than pixies and mushrooms, over the years I have become an expert at Daz assets, utilities, scripts and the most advanced 3d techniques including ultra scenery, scatter and everything else. I come from the days when we used lines of text and libraries to generate scenes in Povray.
I would love to see the day when my photoreal animations are not as slow as heck.
96gb is nice but I think I would need much more raw computing power for the animation thing to come to fruition. The raw computing power is not present in the Pro 6000. Not for what we need.
Like the NVIDIA brick sized PC that does teraflops of computing in seconds... This is not just for AI, this is for us as well. “Content creators…”
Just like video cards are not only for "gamers"... We need our investment of Daz assets into this new arena so we can realize our 3D dreams.
I have spent YEARS intimately leaning each Daz asset, this is my palate of models, and I would like this vast palate supercharged with actual hardware that can handle the demands of the models. I am not satisfied just doing portraits… I want very complex renders to come alive in all their real-time glory. Let’s hope this leads to the democratization of 3D content creators and the hardware with raw computing power can affordably come down to the level of the average consumer.
I certainly have little complaints with the Daz store. I bought most of my models in 80% sales and Daz has been good to us all by creating a vast array of the highest quality 3D models available.
I am not the only 3D fan here who is living under a leaky roof because I spent my money on a new graphics card. lol
(In the odd case of Daz 3D, we are still waiting for the hardware to catch up to the vast landscape of 3D model software that has been created.)
"It's cool, I'm not here to argue."
JACK!!! How did you get unchained from your desk?!?! Your supposed to be slaving away making great products. Back to your desk and don't let me see slipping your chain again. Can someone from HR please check Jack's chain? We can't have him lollygagging.
I guess the benefit of an $11,000 USD card depends on whether you use it to make more money than you spend or whether the time saved avoiding optimization of your scene (assuming DS can use the card) providees a cost benefit.
Remember there is always another option. I work on one computer and send the render job to my secondary computer. I can easily build 2 computers for less than $11,000 USD and log into the render computer through Splashtop Remote Desktop from anywhere in the solar system that I can connect to the internets with my phone, laptop, or tablet.
I put on a fake moustache and snuck out ;)
Has the hardware caught up to the software in Daz Studio? One simple example of collision detection. By setting the collision detection higher, any graphics card struggles with the task. This is just one example of hardware unable to keep up with the demands of 3D art.
I am not saying that collision detection does not work, I am just saying that the GPU cannot handle multiple objects when they touch.
And oh how it struggles with strand based hair...
What does that have to do with hardware abilities? When an item "explodes" like that it is because energy was being pumped in faster than the algorithm could diffuse it away, it means the settings need adjusting (assuming it isn't a mesh bug).
Is the GPU involved in cloth calculations in Studio? I though that was a CPU based calculation.
What I know about the RTX 6000 Pro Blackwell Workstation card, it will work in a standard PC case as it is the equivalent of a FE RTX 5090 roughly with way more VRAM and ECC memory. It does have slightly higher TDP at 600W, but it doesn't need a whole rack unless you were looking to have an industrial setup. Lol. That said, I did preorder one and got it this week actually which was really suprising since it wasn't supposed to arrive til early fall. The reason I did is for a few things:
1) I tend to build a lot of enthusiast based PCs for myself, family and some friends that asked.
2) I have a lot of crazy concepts in relation to 3d art, and I kept finding the "wall" of what I couldn't do on a RTX 3090 which I had prior"
3) Researching the melting connector (this was the scariest aspect of this purchase), the actual failure rate is around the same as the 8pin connector when it really comes down to it. Yes, I am still going to watch it like a hawk. Lol
4) I am hoping that with the capabilities, I can start to branch out to enrich my knowledge and try even more new things with my art.
5) The RTX 5090 is hovering at around $3K in the US.. Even the lower tier. With that in mind, I found a price roughly 3 times that which in my mind justifies the purchase for 3x the Vram.
Definitely not for everyone and I had a few life happenings that allowed me to opt-in for this, but I will hope to share what I can create with the community as I go.
I hear you! And the drips hitting the bucket out in the hallway.
...for some of us it would mean being hit by a bolt of lightning on a perfectly calm cloudless day.
[the odds of winning a lotto jackpot]
Copilot:
In Daz Studio, cloth simulation is primarily handled by the CPU, not the GPU. The dForce physics engine, which is used for cloth and hair simulation, relies on OpenCL, but many users have reported that it defaults to the CPU even when a compatible GPU is available.
Some users have tried different driver versions to enable GPU acceleration, but results have been mixed. Unlike Blender, which has more flexible GPU-based cloth simulation options, Daz Studio's dForce seems to be more CPU-dependent.
Comment: On my computer, dforce cloth simulations are handled only by my GPU.
At first a message pops up, only once per build, and says, Dforce must run a test and it sets up Dforce to run with my graphics card.
Then, during a simulation, only my graphics card gets a spike and my CPU does not peak at all.
I have my CPU disabled in the render hardware. If I enable my CPU then the simulation can happen there if there are issues with my Nvidia driver...
Here Richard is what it has to do with hardware...
Copilot:
Yes, hardware limitations can contribute to dForce explosions in Daz Studio, especially when handling complex collisions. If your system struggles to process the simulation, you might see erratic behavior like mesh explosions or extreme distortions.
Here are some hardware-related factors that could cause issues:
Insufficient RAM: dForce simulations can be memory-intensive. If your system runs out of RAM, calculations may become unstable.
CPU Bottlenecks: Since dForce primarily relies on the CPU, a slower processor or one with fewer cores may struggle with complex cloth interactions.
GPU Compatibility Issues: While dForce uses OpenCL, many users report that it defaults to the CPU even when a compatible GPU is available. If your GPU isn't properly utilized, simulations may take longer or behave unpredictably.
Overloaded Scene Complexity: Too many objects in the scene can overwhelm the system, leading to calculation errors.
A good workaround is to reduce simulation complexity—try lowering the number of collision objects, simplifying the cloth geometry, or adjusting simulation settings like subframe interpolation. Also, ensuring your drivers are up to date can help with stability.
Comment: Overloaded Scene Complexity (like, more than two or three) lol
I am not saying Dforce is not awesome Richard, I love dforce and use it in nearly every scene... But, hardware is very limited, especially with hair and animation where each frame needs simulation. That is a simple and quite evident fact that hardware is limited when it comes to dforce simulations and animation, especially with complex scenes..
Congrats on the new card, I'd suggest getting a Wireview Pro for a bit of peace of mind but Rexred doesn't rate Thermal Grizzly as a company and he seems to be an expert on DS and GPUs. I'm going to order one but I'm waiting on the 90 degree version.
Route the coolant tubes over the power connectors. Connector burns, tube melts, fire goes out, simples.
Don't trust CoPilot - yes, dForce uses the GPU via OpenCL. AMD GPUs in particular have had compatibility issues, forcing the process to drop down to CPU (which requires an OpenCL driver for the CPU, not something that is isntalled by default in the past - and AMD, at least for a while, didn't do OpenCL drivers for their CPUs).
Well, insufficient RAM is a potential issue with anything - though I can't say it has seriously affected me, with an 11GB GPU (and it is GPU RAM that matters).
I suppose it is something that CoPilot is consistently wrong - see my comments above on the CPU default claims.
While true, I don't think it leads to explosions as such - that is more likely to be unexpected intersections or interactions.
Giving the simulation more granularity (more sub-frames etc.) generally helps, as long as memory isn't exhausted (and this may be system memory rather than GPU - I am not sure where previous stages in th calculation are stoed).
My dispute was with the idea that hardware limitations cause explosions, not with the idea that there are limitations (and I would accept that once dForce goes off the rails it is often necessary to restart DS to give it a clean start, though I haven't deliberately caused an issue to see if that remians the case for a while)
From BING:
$3 million
Thermal Grizzly Holding GmbH, a company based in Hohen Neuendorf, Germany, had an annual revenue of $3 million in 20241.
$130.50B
NVIDIA's yearly revenue has been growing steadily. In the fiscal year ending January 26, 2025, NVIDIA had annual revenue of $130.50B with 114.20% growth14. In 2024, the company made a revenue of $130.49 Billion USD, an increase over the revenue in 2023, which was $60.92 Billion USD23.
Not only can it cause excplosions but it can cause windows to crash,
Last night I aksed Daz to make me a plane with
Geometry
Size 10
Divisions 5000
Subdivision Catmark and Daz sat there for about 15 minutes "thinking" and then, Windows crashed...
I would call this a mesh explosion.
This thread is about hardware, it's current state and the viability of new and upcoming options. The limitations are certainly there as demonstrated by a simple plane.
I will try adding the plane with my CPU renderer turned on.
As I said, my GPU was the only resource in windows that responded to my Gforce test.
I do not recall ever installing OpenCL but I have many games and graphic apps that may very well have installed it.
I will check. The irony is that copilot gets its information from the Daz Forums so to "think" that it is consistantly wrong is a testament to the reliability of this forum.
After reading millions of threads on the Daz forums, Copilot says "mesh explosions" can be caused by poor hardware calculations due to overload.
Me: Copilot, how do I run a Dforce simulation in Daz Studio?
Copilot:
1. Load Your Scene
2. Prepare the Clothing for Simulation
3. Adjust Simulation Settings
4. Run the Simulation
5. Render the Scene
For a visual tutorial, check out this video guide or read more about dForce basics here. Let me know if you need more details!
Comment: For someone needing a simple process, this is an excellent source.
Me: Copilot, Does Daz Studio 2025 have new features to its stand based hair utility?
Copilot:
Yes! Daz Studio 2025 has introduced some exciting updates to its Strand-Based Hair Editor. The biggest change is that the editor is now fully integrated into the viewport, meaning you no longer have to work within a separate modal window. This makes styling and shaping strand-based hair much more intuitive and accessible.
Key Improvements:
These updates make strand-based hair creation more seamless and efficient. If you're interested in testing it out, you can check out the Daz Studio 2025 Alpha Release here. Let me know if you need more details!
My Comment: It took me two seconds to put my hands on this information.
This is why I use Copilot very frequently when making scenes.
I switched my GPU rendering to CPU rendering and then added the plane with 5000 divisions. (I have 96gb of system ram)
Daz just sat there for 20 minutes, frozen. I would call that a mesh explosion based simply on "one mesh" and its overloading the hardware.
I had to forcibly end task. Maybe if I waited several hours or a day it might place the mesh into my scene or, Windows might crash again.
Me: Hello Copilot: Are there apps and/or games that install OpenCL by default? How do I check my system to see if it has been installed?
Copilot: Yes! Some apps and games install OpenCL by default, especially those that rely on GPU acceleration for computing tasks. One example is the OpenCL™, OpenGL®, and Vulkan® Compatibility Pack, which allows OpenCL-based applications to run on Windows PCs that may not have OpenCL drivers installed by default.
How to Check if OpenCL is Installed on Your System
Here are a few ways to verify if OpenCL is installed:
C:\Windows\System32\OpenCL.dll—if it's present, OpenCL is installed.cmd).clinfoorclinfo.exe -vto display OpenCL version details.If OpenCL isn't installed, you can manually install it using the OpenCL Compatibility Pack. Let me know if you need help setting it up!
Comment: I don't recall ever installing OpenCL but here it is on my system.
since I cannot even afford a microwave right now so am rendering my meals over a gasring like a primitive
I really don't belong in this thread
I will leave you and Hal alone in the room for some privacy
Over the years I have found your intput in this forum very helpul WendyLuvsCatz.
I would like to shift this discussion to a few points.
How well does the 5090 and Pro 6000 (Blackwell) work with Daz Studio 2025? (so as not to usurp the official Daz 2025 thread)
And what exactly is this NVIDIA brick sized computer and what information is there out there on when Windows/Daz may be ported over to it.
I might also add, a Pro 6000 may not earn any money, but it can be used as a learning tool, and how valuable is that learning information? Can college tuition beat hands-on training?
It seems the question is when do i jump in with the $? 5090? Pro 6000? Or the NVIDIA PC brick? ...and when will these hardware/software technologies mature?
I am holding 13,000 Daz assets (an investment of time leaning them and money) wondering the best case scenario to use them in.
I don’t want 32GB of ram if there is an option for 96GB but I also find the raw processing of the 5090GPU, "limiting".
I need an exponentially greater processing capability (With hundreds of 5090s in NVLINK) to do animations, simulations and work with meshes with billions of vertices... All for the price of a microwave oven.
I asked Copilot: What exactly is this NVIDIA brick-sized computer and what information is there out there on when Windows/Daz may be ported over to it.
Copilot:
NVIDIA has been developing compact, high-performance computing devices, often referred to as "brick-sized computers." These are typically AI-focused edge computing devices or small form-factor workstations designed for deep learning, gaming, and creative applications.
What We Know About NVIDIA’s Brick-Sized Computer
Windows & Daz Studio Compatibility
Currently, Daz Studio requires Windows or macOS and is optimized for NVIDIA RTX GPUs. There is no official confirmation on whether Daz Studio will be ported to NVIDIA’s compact computing devices. However, if the device runs Windows, it should theoretically support Daz Studio, provided it meets the minimum hardware requirements.
A mesh explosion is when the clothing gets jagged and vertices seem to fly off in all direction, dragging polygons with them, as shown in the image you posted earlier. If simulation fails in some other way (such as freezing the computer) then that is not a "mesh explosion" and may well be tied to hardware in a variety of ways.