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Neko : Line Tessellation Sides major bug

nelchwetzalnelchwetzal Posts: 31
edited March 2025 in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-neko-hair-for-genesis-8-and-81-females

Hello

I use the next product: 

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-neko-hair-for-genesis-8-and-81-females

 and I had a very bad surprise: the hair disappeared.

After a bit of searching, it turns out that the Line Tessellation Sidesis totally buggy when the value exceeds 1!

You can see it in the attached images: 

Line Tessellation Sides 1 :

Line Tessellation Sides 2:

I use dforce hair, it's the first time I've seen something like this.

Does anyone have a solution?

Post edited by nelchwetzal on

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,209

    The readme says

    If tessellation is set to be larger than default, the hair is unlikely to be able to render on desktop GPUs because of the very high VRAM demand.

    If you want smoother results try a value of 0, which will use the newer Iray curves instead of a set tesselation.

  • nelchwetzalnelchwetzal Posts: 31
    edited March 2025

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The readme says

    If tessellation is set to be larger than default, the hair is unlikely to be able to render on desktop GPUs because of the very high VRAM demand.

    If you want smoother results try a value of 0, which will use the newer Iray curves instead of a set tesselation.

     No: I've found it's not a VRAM problem but a hair problem, and Shadow Cat Hair shows it :

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-shadow-cat-hair-for-genesis-81-female

    The product is supplied in two variants:

    1 Shadow Cat Hair: the classic Dforce system

    2 Shadow Cat Hair With RIg: dforce with a rig like neko hair and tenebris hair

     

    Version 1 can easily reach Tessellation 4: you can see this in the picture.

    As for version 2, well, the picture speaks for itself.

     

    I've checked the Vram and ram, and there's still 7G and 22G, so it's not Vram, and besides, the lines are there, it's just that they're put in the wrong way.

    Tenebris hair and neko hair, which use the same RIG technique, are also affected.

     

    So it's definitely a bug.

     

     

    Shadowcats hair telssaltion lines 4.png
    2420 x 984 - 337K
    Shadowcats hair RIG telssaltion lines 2.png
    2350 x 970 - 377K
    Post edited by nelchwetzal on
  • nelchwetzalnelchwetzal Posts: 31
    edited March 2025

    Further demonstration: I put in several dforce hairs and then set the tesslation to 2 on all of them.

    Line 0

    Line 2

    This affects daz studio 4.22 and 4.23

     

    Edit :

    Additional proof: when you took the hair out of the rig, the problem disappeared.

    Groupe hair line 0.png
    2894 x 951 - 614K
    Groupe hair line 2.png
    2882 x 946 - 629K
    RigOG.png
    2433 x 1001 - 440K
    Rigsparate.png
    2445 x 1023 - 573K
    Post edited by nelchwetzal on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,209

    I had missed that there was a rigged version, but I think I did use that last night. Let me check again.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,209

    Yes, it does behave oddly when the hair is fitted to the rig - and the rig is odd as it shows itself fitted to <multiple>. I don't know what is going on.

  • ToyenToyen Posts: 2,046
    edited March 2025

    Hello there. 

    The standard for dForce hair rendering used to be either Tessalation 1 or 3 in the past.

    The current standard for dForce hair rendering is Tessalation 0 that takes advantage of the iray cuvres technology.

    Therefore I would advise you to render all dForce hair on Tessalation 0 these days.

    If the hair item is older (than 1.5 - 2 years)  you might have to make adjustments to the materials as they look different on Tess 0 vs Tess 1/3.

    Tessalation 2 should never be used. It just causes too many issues. Tessalation 4 is unnescessarily heavy for the system and there is absolutely no need to for it (especially these days with the iray curves technology).

    Hope this helps. 

    Toyen

    Post edited by Toyen on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,485
    edited March 2025

    I don't have Neko hair, but I do have Tenebris hair. The Tenebris Hair is parented to the Tenebris Rig. Unparent it from the rig and parent it to the Tenebris Scalp. It then works fine for me at Line tessellation 2. It can still be posed with the rig bones, or the Active Pose tool, and it follows the head fine with regular character poses.
     

    Previously discussed here.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,279

    Tessellation 2, however, is very important for exporting SBH hair to other DCCs. It's the minimum which creates actual geometry. I hope it continues to work.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,663

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    Tessellation 2, however, is very important for exporting SBH hair to other DCCs. It's the minimum which creates actual geometry. I hope it continues to work.

    I keep tesselation at 0 for exporting to C4D and Houdini.

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,279

    Gordig said:

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    Tessellation 2, however, is very important for exporting SBH hair to other DCCs. It's the minimum which creates actual geometry. I hope it continues to work.

    I keep tesselation at 0 for exporting to C4D and Houdini.

    Hi Gordig,

    How do you export? When I request the geometry, it has no facets...

     

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,790

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    Gordig said:

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    Tessellation 2, however, is very important for exporting SBH hair to other DCCs. It's the minimum which creates actual geometry. I hope it continues to work.

    I keep tesselation at 0 for exporting to C4D and Houdini.

    Hi Gordig,

    How do you export? When I request the geometry, it has no facets...

    the default obj exporter from daz can write polylines from SBH - not sure if that helps.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,663

    What lilweep said: I export as OBJ, then adapt the hair to the respective hair system of whatever program I'm using. For Houdini, depending on the hair I'll either run the guides through a Hair Generate SOP, or keep as curves, in which case you can add a width attribute to make it render as hair.

  • nelchwetzalnelchwetzal Posts: 31

    Toyen said:

    Hello there. 

    The standard for dForce hair rendering used to be either Tessalation 1 or 3 in the past.

    The current standard for dForce hair rendering is Tessalation 0 that takes advantage of the iray cuvres technology.

    Therefore I would advise you to render all dForce hair on Tessalation 0 these days.

    If the hair item is older (than 1.5 - 2 years)  you might have to make adjustments to the materials as they look different on Tess 0 vs Tess 1/3.

    Tessalation 2 should never be used. It just causes too many issues. Tessalation 4 is unnescessarily heavy for the system and there is absolutely no need to for it (especially these days with the iray curves technology).

    Hope this helps. 

    Toyen

    Except that geometry is necessary for workflows on other systems.

    For example, diffeomorphic needs a line tesslation of 2 to convert hair to blender's curve system.

    What surprises me most is that the problem isn't recent: tenebris hair is from 2021, neko hair from 2022, and the problem is present with daz 4.22  and barbult's link shows posts from 2022.

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,279

    Hmm... in Sagan, I set it to 2 so that I get a quad for each segment of the strands. Leaving it as 1, I get no facets. I'll have to try 0 and see if I can figure it out.

    Thanks Gordig, lilweep

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