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Diffeomorphic and HD Morphs Question

CozyCozy Posts: 17
edited March 24 in Blender Discussion

I wanted to doublecheck and ask people more familiar with Diffeomorphic and models with HD morphs.

I'm trying to import a character that uses the cellulite morphs in Glutes Utilities for Genesis 8 Female(s) and Body Diversity Morphs for Genesis 8 Female(s) into Blender, but after manually importing, it looks like the morphs are not appearing.

I looked into the Diffeo manuals saw the post 'DAZ HD Morphs and Xin's Addon' but wanted to make sure that is up-to-date/if this is the right thing I need to do to transfer these morphs over. Edit: Also, if that's correct, I assume I'll need to make an HD mesh of the character to use the HD morphs as per Xin's addon's instructions?

Any help would be appreciated!

 

Post edited by Cozy on

Comments

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,998
    edited March 24

    It is important to distinguish between HD shapes and HD morphs.

    The HD shape must be visible in the daz viewport when we export, so you may want to set the desired subd level. Then it is imported as multires, not visible in the blender viewport by default for performance reasons, but visible in render.

    The HD morphs are those morphs affecting the HD shape, that we want to import as morphs in blender. For example the HD facial expressions. In this case we need the HD addon by Xin to convert the HD morphs to a blender displacement map, then the addon also sets up a driver for the morph to work.

    Diffeomorphic / import_daz / wiki / Features / HD Tools — Bitbucket

    https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import_daz/issues/1862/

    note. HD morphs imported without the Xin addon do work, but will only affect the base mesh, not the HD layer.

    Post edited by Padone on
  • CozyCozy Posts: 17

    How can I tell if something is an HD shape as opposed to an HD morph?

    You state 'The HD shape must be visible in the daz viewport when we export', and I see the desired shape on the character. However, this was done via HD morphs.

    In the products' own words, they are:

    Body Diversity Morphs for Genesis 8 Female(s)
    Included Morph Dials (.DSF):
    Partial Lower Body Dials:
    Cellulite HD

    and

    Glutes Utilities HD Morph:
    Cellulite HD

    Looking into the files, they both have .dhdm files, so I assume this confirms that these are HD morphs? Does this mean the character mesh is now an HD shape or is 'HD shape' referring to the fact that more geometry is needed?

    Also, when you say 'HD morphs imported without the Xin addon do work, but will only affect the base mesh, not the HD layer.', what is the difference between the base mesh and the HD layer?

    Is the HD layer a means of improving performance rather than relying on the geometry of the base mesh or are both affected regardless when using Xin's?

    I don't know if this is relevant, but I don't plan on changing the morph once the desired look is present in Blender since it isn't an expression if that influences whether I should use the HD tools in Diffeo as opposed to Xin's.

    Thanks again for any answers you can provide!

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,742
    edited March 24

    Once you have applied all your HD morphs onto your character in Daz Studio and dialled up viewport SubD, then you have created a HD character shape whch you can export via diffeomorphic.  Note that the HD 'shape' will appear in Blender on the modifiers tab as a multiresolution modifier. It wont be a shapekey aka "morph" in Blender but rather an HD sculpt that is baked into the multires modifier.

    If you want to have a HD shapekey or HD "morph" in Blender, i.e., something that you can dial up and down, then you can't do that unless you bake into a Displacement Map (i.e., by using the Xin HD addon to do this). Blender doesnt have any such thing as an HD shapekey/HD Morph system. The closest thing we have is dissolving between or layering on different displacement maps. Xin's addon can convert HD morphs from Daz Studio into displacement maps and then hook them up to drivers so you can dial them up and down in Blender.  Doing it manually would be very tedious.

    So i think what Padone is getting at is (using their own definitions)

    "HD Shape" = your HD character shape from Daz Studio (which could be constituted from 100s of various HD morphs) that Diffeomorphic bakes into the multires modifier in Blender. The multires modifier can only be set to either on or off, by turning on the Modifier in your modifier stack in Blender. It cant be dialled up or down in Blender.  In this way it is a baked shape and you cant dial in the various HD morphs like HD glutes or HD cellulite.  The whole HD cahracter shape is either on or off depending if you have the multires on or off.

    "HD Morph" = something more dynamic that can be dialled in/out as needed in Blender. You have to bake these component HD morphs from Daz to displacement map using Xin's HD addon because Blender doesnt support multires shapekeys.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • CozyCozy Posts: 17

    Thank you so much for the explanation and interpretation!

    Once you have applied all your HD morphs onto your character in Daz Studio and dialled up viewport SubD, then you have created a HD character shape whch you can export via diffeomorphic.  Note that the HD 'shape' will appear in Blender on the modifiers tab as a multiresolution modifier. It wont be a shapekey aka "morph" in Blender but rather an HD sculpt that is baked into the multires modifier.

    By 'applied all your HD morphs', do you simply mean using the dials? Sorry to ask, but I just wanted to make sure.

    If I see the effects in the viewport, do I still need to increase the SubD? Right now, 'SubDivision Level' is 2 and 'Render SubD Level (Minimum) is 3, and these are unchanged from default but still show the desired results.

    Understood on the multires.

    If you want to have a HD shapekey or HD "morph" in Blender, i.e., something that you can dial up and down, then you can't do that unless you bake into a Displacement Map (i.e., by using the Xin HD addon to do this). Blender doesnt have any such thing as an HD shapekey/HD Morph system. The closest thing we have is dissolving between or layering on different displacement maps. Xin's addon can convert HD morphs from Daz Studio into displacement maps and then hook them up to drivers so you can dial them up and down in Blender.  Doing it manually would be very tedious.

    So i think what Padone is getting at is (using their own definitions)

    "HD Shape" = your HD character shape from Daz Studio (which could be constituted from 100s of various HD morphs) that Diffeomorphic bakes into the multires modifier in Blender. The multires modifier can only be set to either on or off, by turning on the Modifier in your modifier stack in Blender. It cant be dialled up or down in Blender.  In this way it is a baked shape and you cant dial in the various HD morphs like HD glutes or HD cellulite.  The whole HD cahracter shape is either on or off depending if you have the multires on or off.

    "HD Morph" = something more dynamic that can be dialled in/out as needed in Blender. You have to bake these component HD morphs from Daz to displacement map using Xin's HD addon because Blender doesnt support multires shapekeys.

    Understood on Blender not having that. The main confusion I had was over the dials and Padone's definitions. Since I don't want to dial them up and down, I don't need to use Xin's, is that right? As such, all I need to do is follow Diffeo's HD Tools' documentation found here: https://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/2020/09/high-resolution-meshes.html Is that correct?

    Thanks again for the help!

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,742

    Cozy said:

    Thank you so much for the explanation and interpretation!

    Once you have applied all your HD morphs onto your character in Daz Studio and dialled up viewport SubD, then you have created a HD character shape whch you can export via diffeomorphic.  Note that the HD 'shape' will appear in Blender on the modifiers tab as a multiresolution modifier. It wont be a shapekey aka "morph" in Blender but rather an HD sculpt that is baked into the multires modifier.

    By 'applied all your HD morphs', do you simply mean using the dials? Sorry to ask, but I just wanted to make sure.

    If I see the effects in the viewport, do I still need to increase the SubD? Right now, 'SubDivision Level' is 2 and 'Render SubD Level (Minimum) is 3, and these are unchanged from default but still show the desired results.

    Understood on the multires.

    https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import_daz/wiki/Export/High-resolution Export To Blender

    Please note that the HD information is baked from the viewport, so in daz studio you need to set the viewport subdivision to the desired level before exporting.

    If you think Subd2 level of 2 is enough, then thats enough. Some vendors make HD morphs at like higher levels though. Up to you what level of detail you want.

     

    If you want to have a HD shapekey or HD "morph" in Blender, i.e., something that you can dial up and down, then you can't do that unless you bake into a Displacement Map (i.e., by using the Xin HD addon to do this). Blender doesnt have any such thing as an HD shapekey/HD Morph system. The closest thing we have is dissolving between or layering on different displacement maps. Xin's addon can convert HD morphs from Daz Studio into displacement maps and then hook them up to drivers so you can dial them up and down in Blender.  Doing it manually would be very tedious.

    So i think what Padone is getting at is (using their own definitions)

    "HD Shape" = your HD character shape from Daz Studio (which could be constituted from 100s of various HD morphs) that Diffeomorphic bakes into the multires modifier in Blender. The multires modifier can only be set to either on or off, by turning on the Modifier in your modifier stack in Blender. It cant be dialled up or down in Blender.  In this way it is a baked shape and you cant dial in the various HD morphs like HD glutes or HD cellulite.  The whole HD cahracter shape is either on or off depending if you have the multires on or off.

    "HD Morph" = something more dynamic that can be dialled in/out as needed in Blender. You have to bake these component HD morphs from Daz to displacement map using Xin's HD addon because Blender doesnt support multires shapekeys.

    Understood on Blender not having that. The main confusion I had was over the dials and Padone's definitions. Since I don't want to dial them up and down, I don't need to use Xin's, is that right? As such, all I need to do is follow Diffeo's HD Tools' documentation found here: https://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/2020/09/high-resolution-meshes.html Is that correct?

    Thanks again for the help!

    In daz studio, there are some things like HD correctives and HD facial expression morphs which would be useful to have set up with drivers using Xin's HD addon, but up to you if you want those additional features.

    If you just want your HD character from daz studio viewport, then diffeo's export HD option will put that on the multires modifier.

  • CozyCozy Posts: 17

    https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import_daz/wiki/Export/High-resolution Export To Blender

    Please note that the HD information is baked from the viewport, so in daz studio you need to set the viewport subdivision to the desired level before exporting.

    If you think Subd2 level of 2 is enough, then thats enough. Some vendors make HD morphs at like higher levels though. Up to you what level of detail you want.

    Understood. Thank you for quoting that and linking the relevant page!

    In daz studio, there are some things like HD correctives and HD facial expression morphs which would be useful to have set up with drivers using Xin's HD addon, but up to you if you want those additional features.

    If you just want your HD character from daz studio viewport, then diffeo's export HD option will put that on the multires modifier.

    Understood. I'll keep that in mind and start fiddling with Diffeo's HD functions. Thanks again for the insight!

  • Krys KryngleKrys Kryngle Posts: 311

    With something like cellulite you would be better off making normal maps and displacement maps.  Xin's addon can help with those.  It can generate them direclty from the dhdm files.  To have them as shapekeys you would probably need sub3 or sub4, which really slows down the viewport, especially in Blender. 

  • CozyCozy Posts: 17
    edited March 25

    Small follow-up after testing:

    I've successfully gotten my HD Mesh into Blender and have tried to import standard morphs onto the HD Mesh, but when I do, the process finishes near instantly with no results in the shapekeys or mention of an error.

    I followed the same process as usual, applying transforms and merging rigs before importing the morphs, but am not sure if I missed a step that HD importing might require.

    How do I import morphs onto the HD mesh?

    With something like cellulite you would be better off making normal maps and displacement maps.  Xin's addon can help with those.  It can generate them direclty from the dhdm files.  To have them as shapekeys you would probably need sub3 or sub4, which really slows down the viewport, especially in Blender. 

    Just to clarify, Xin's doesn't automatically make them shapekeys, is that correct? As stated above, I'm not planning on dialing it up or down. You mention sub3/4 and I'm not sure if you were referring to the HD import from Diffeo that I've been following, but you're definitely right, and I'm hesitant to rely entirely on subd if it can be avoided though I don't use it (too much) in the viewport. (Edit: Also, for Xin's, when selecting the base mesh, do I choose the standard mesh or the HD mesh from the import? Did some trial and error to find it needs to be the standard mesh.) Also, thanks for your vids on Diffeo, they were a ton of help in getting started with it!

    Post edited by Cozy on
  • CozyCozy Posts: 17

    Also, sorry if I am jumbling these two trains of thought, but if I were to use Xin's, would there be a point to using the HD import from Diffeo?

     

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,998

    The explanations by @lilweep are correct. As for the Xin addon, you don't need it for the HD shape, but again only for HD morphs. You can bake the HD shape aka multires to a normal map, using "bake maps" in the HD tools, as linked above.

  • CozyCozy Posts: 17

    The explanations by @lilweep are correct.

    Understood. Thank you both again for the explanations.

    As for the Xin addon, you don't need it for the HD shape, but again only for HD morphs. You can bake the HD shape aka multires to a normal map, using "bake maps" in the HD tools, as linked above.

    Thanks for reiterating the bake map documentation. I'll be sure to test that out!

     

  • CozyCozy Posts: 17
    edited March 25

    Just wanted to follow-up since it might be relevant to others:

    I succesfully baked the normal and displacement maps of the HD mesh and loaded it on the base mesh, but there were some things I had to fix prior.

    • First, for some reason, my HD mesh's UV map was set incorrectly on import, mapping to 'Base Female' rather than 'Base 8.1 Female'. I believe this messed up baking as well since after switching these manually then baking, it worked.
    • Second, after loading the baked normal maps from the HD mesh to the base mesh, it changed the UVs which messed up how the rendered results looked, but manually setting it to 'Base Female' fixed everything. I'm guessing this is because the baked textures were mapped to the 'Base 8.1 Female' above.

    Lastly, while I am able to now import morphs since the baked maps are on the base mesh, there is now a small seam between the UVs. I checked the manual but couldn't find anything. I'm not sure if this relates to my two points above, but those steps were necessary to get anything close to how things looked in Daz. Did I miss a step or does anyone have an idea s to why there is now a seam?

    Edit: I've retried the process to see what's going wrong and encountered this error:

    Python: Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.4\extensions\user_default\import_daz\error.py", line 200, in execute
        self.run(context)
      File "C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.4\extensions\user_default\import_daz\hd_tools\hd_morphs.py", line 286, in run
        self.loadDispMaps(mat, args)
      File "C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.4\extensions\user_default\import_daz\hd_tools\hd_morphs.py", line 246, in loadDispMaps
        pruneNodeTree(tree)
      File "C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.4\extensions\user_default\import_daz\tree.py", line 582, in pruneNodeTree
        protectImage(node, img, links)
      File "C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Blender Foundation\Blender\4.4\extensions\user_default\import_daz\tree.py", line 564, in protectImage
        node.image = img2
        ^^^^^^^^^^
    ReferenceError: StructRNA of type Image has been removed

    Also, I'm not sure if this is affecting things, but the model has displacement from the import for certain materials like 'Body' but not for 'Legs'. Loading displacement maps loads the baked Body maps but not the legs, and when I try to manually map the legs with the correpsonding baked map in the textures folder, the seam persists.

    Post edited by Cozy on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,998

    Be sure to update to the latest dev version then retry. If the error isn't fixed then you can open a issue at bitbucket for Thomas to look at. See the guideline for bugs.

    Diffeomorphic / import_daz / Downloads — Bitbucket

    https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import_daz/issues/2129/

  • CozyCozy Posts: 17

    Be sure to update to the latest dev version then retry. If the error isn't fixed then you can open a issue at bitbucket for Thomas to look at. See the guideline for bugs.

    Gotcha. I'll update, see how things go, and open an issue if the problems persist.

  • devi7911devi7911 Posts: 0

    Hello,

    I'm using these two for my genesis 9 model and when i try to export HD with diffeomorphic, I don't see the shapes, I'm using view sub level 2, can anyone try this and let me know please if it's exporting with veins or not

    https://www.daz3d.com/sy-hero-bodies-for-genesis-9
    https://www.daz3d.com/sy-intense-muscle-genesis-8-81-and-9

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